Rifle Competitions with an AR-15 ?

Are there any high power matches that do not require a service rifle and allow use of BUIS and/or optics? I'm going to the Nashua CMP clinic end of April and then would probably like to compete, but I'd much rather use my main rifle with troy irons and/or a scope. I'm also using a brake that's not removable due to our lovely AWB.
 
Are there any high power matches that do not require a service rifle and allow use of BUIS and/or optics? I'm going to the Nashua CMP clinic end of April and then would probably like to compete, but I'd much rather use my main rifle with troy irons and/or a scope. I'm also using a brake that's not removable due to our lovely AWB.

I think F-Class allows pretty much anything you want but I've never shot it myself. If you need to borrow a rifle for a while to get your feet wet there are guys who would lend you one for the day if you ask nicely. Generally speaking guys like to see new shooters getting into the sport. (More shooters means more leg points.)
 
Are there any high power matches that do not require a service rifle and allow use of BUIS and/or optics? I'm going to the Nashua CMP clinic end of April and then would probably like to compete, but I'd much rather use my main rifle with troy irons and/or a scope. I'm also using a brake that's not removable due to our lovely AWB.
I believe that your brake is not allowed at any high power match. Sorry.

You could compete with iron sights in any high power match in the match rifle class. Of course, you'd be horribly disadvantaged compared to the space guns used by your competitors in that class.

Also, I don't know how well your BUIS would work for this type of shooting. You really want national match style sights, with a narrow front sight post, small rear diameter peep. Are your BUIS easily adjustable for both windage and elevation, like a standard AR15 rear sight?
 
I believe that your brake is not allowed at any high power match. Sorry.

You could compete with iron sights in any high power match in the match rifle class. Of course, you'd be horribly disadvantaged compared to the space guns used by your competitors in that class.

Also, I don't know how well your BUIS would work for this type of shooting. You really want national match style sights, with a narrow front sight post, small rear diameter peep. Are your BUIS easily adjustable for both windage and elevation, like a standard AR15 rear sight?


No elevation in the Troy Rear, and the windage is a pain in the ass if you were changing between shots.
 
Sigh, I just want to learn how to shoot my gun 200+ yards, not a gun I only use to compete with. That kind of defeats the purpose in my eyes. So any other competitions that go 200+ yards and have an "open" class where you can shoot real guns?

By real guns I of course mean the ones guys like me already own and want to be able to shoot in any circumstance, not tricked out competition guns and auxiliary equipment that I need to spend a few thousand more dollars on. I'm not pissing in anyone's cheerio's. I just can't justify having a gun I only shoot at a couple competitions per year. I don't have anything farther than a 100 yard range locally to shoot at and I have a family so taking jaunts all over NE just to practice with a rifle I don't really want to own is not in my cards.
 
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Sigh, I just want to learn how to shoot my gun 200+ yards, not a gun I only use to compete with. That kind of defeats the purpose in my eyes. So any other competitions that go 200+ yards and have an "open" class where you can shoot real guns?
The problem is that without being able to adjust elevation, you won't be able to hit a target from the 600 yard line. If you zeroed at 200 yards, you will have a 51" drop at 600 yards. If you try to adjust just using holdoffs, chances are you will either be low (risking a bounce over the berm), or way high and possibly sail over the berm.
 
The problem is that without being able to adjust elevation, you won't be able to hit a target from the 600 yard line. If you zeroed at 200 yards, you will have a 51" drop at 600 yards. If you try to adjust just using holdoffs, chances are you will either be low (risking a bounce over the berm), or way high and possibly sail over the berm.

I was kind of hoping the point would be to learn to shoot so you don't do wither of those, or a competition where you can use glass and not irons making the adjustment issues with my troy's moot. Either way I'd really like to learn to shoot my 200 yard zero irons at distances beyond 200.
 
I was kind of hoping the point would be to learn to shoot so you don't do wither of those, or a competition where you can use glass and not irons making the adjustment issues with my troy's moot. Either way I'd really like to learn to shoot my 200 yard zero irons at distances beyond 200.
I'm sorry, but if you can't adjust your rear sight for elevation, you're not going to be able to do that. You simply can't judge the holdoffs at that range. You either adjust your rear sight or you miss. That is why M16s have an adjustable rear sight.

Backup iron sights are just that -- backups. The work at close distances (out to 300 yards if you have a 200 yard zero). They don't work at long distances.

Also, you need to be able to adjust windage. Wind isn't a huge issue at the 200 yard line, but as you go back further you will have to adjust your sights for wind, or you will miss. It's that simple.

Please, go to a clinic and borrow their equipment. After you do it once, you'll understand what I'm talking about.
 
It's not that I don't understand what you're talking about. I am completely aware of drop and wind charts, creating your own dope card, etc. It's also why I asked about competitions that let you use scopes, if there are any. My BUIS are in fact backups to my scope. That doesn't mean I don't want to learn first hand what I am personally capable of shooting beyond 200 yards before I can't hit what I'm aiming at with them.

I also already stated I'm going to the CMP clinic where we will be using loners and I'm sure I'll learn a lot there about how to shoot someone else's gun at a distance it's already setup for. That's all good and fun to do, but not what I'm looking to accomplish in the long run.

To just say "Well we don't do that around here" is not helping answer my question of whether anyone is aware of any competitions that are not like the HP events you guys are talking about and where I can use my rifle the way it is setup now. If you're answer is "no, I'm not aware of any and you'll have to teach yourself" then just say that.

My personal goal is to learn how far I can shoot my gun, with my sights, and my zero with irons and hit what I want without adjusting anything. I would also like to learn to shoot out to 600 yards with my scope. So does anyone know where I can learn do this, or am I going to have to do it on my own?
 
I'm not aware of any gun club nearby that is going to let you risk bouncing a round over the berm at 600 yards.

For F-class, you'd have to lose that compensator.
 
My personal goal is to learn how far I can shoot my gun, with my sights, and my zero with irons and hit what I want without adjusting anything.

That's not really the point of highpower competition, regardless of the class. Dialing in the sights is a big part of being competitive...
 
That's not really the point of highpower competition, regardless of the class. Dialing in the sights is a big part of being competitive...

It's become quite obvious, Highpower is not the game he's interested in. Supermoto's suggestion of 3 gun is closer to the mark.
 
My Rifle = Bushmaster XM15 ES2 A3 type rifle -"Flat-top" upper receiver w/16" barrel & Removable carry handle. Sights=Rear/ A2 Dual aperture sight. Front/sight post.
Stock=Solid A2 . Factory trigger. 2 piece vented hand guard

Thanks.

Mike, that rifle does not meet the NRA & CMP definition of a Service Rifle but it does meet the NRA definition of a Match Rifle. So if you want to see what highpower is about, put a USGI canvas sling on it and check "match rifle" on the entry form at any NRA highpower rifle match
 
Been reading this topic through. I’m not trying to belittle anyone, but it sure seems like a lot of guys want to shoot beyond 200yds to see what they or their rifle can do.
What has to be understood is if you want to hit a target at distances beyond 200yds, you either move your sights or use a ranging reticle system. There is really no other way…other than LUCK.
Most people who have had some experience at 100yds are intimated by anything over that, but what it really comes down to is learning the come ups for the distances. If a person understands this concept, and from practical experience, not going by what a ballistic book says, learning to estimate distances between “known” distances becomes easier. Once this is understood, one could then move the sights to closest estimated known distance and then be able to test their ability.
Just having a basic zero (which a lot of people don’t) and trying to shoot at a target more than 200yds further away will result in nothing.
In order to establish ones capability (both rifle and person) you need to shoot at known distances…out to 600yds.
The Army Designated Marksmanship Program does just that. Believe me it has paid off in combat. CMP sells DVD of these basic programs and you can down load some of them directly from the Army Marksmanship Unit web site.
 
The most useful guns for learning fundamental marksmanship skills and yield the greatest results for your time and money, are typically the most impractical.

B
 
What is impractical about an A3 flat top, 20 inch 1-8 twist barreled AR. Add a removable carry handle sight, standard front post sight, and a decent match trigger.
The handle is removable, so you can use a scope, red dot, etc etc. 1- 8 twist barrel will stabilize 80 grn and down bullets. Put a lead weight in an a2 BUTTSTOCK
FOR BALANCE AND EXTRA WEIGHT, SHOOT matches. Change buttstocks and go shoot 3 gun.. 3 inches of extra barrel length isn't going to make a whole lot of difference, unless you are going to be busting down doors.
 
What is impractical about an A3 flat top, 20 inch 1-8 twist barreled AR. Add a removable carry handle sight, standard front post sight, and a decent match trigger.
The handle is removable, so you can use a scope, red dot, etc etc. 1- 8 twist barrel will stabilize 80 grn and down bullets. Put a lead weight in an a2 BUTTSTOCK
FOR BALANCE AND EXTRA WEIGHT, SHOOT matches. Change buttstocks and go shoot 3 gun.. 3 inches of extra barrel length isn't going to make a whole lot of difference, unless you are going to be busting down doors.

Did someone say it was impractical?
 
Been reading this topic through. I’m not trying to belittle anyone, but it sure seems like a lot of guys want to shoot beyond 200yds to see what they or their rifle can do.

Yes.

What has to be understood is if you want to hit a target at distances beyond 200yds, you either move your sights or use a ranging reticle system. There is really no other way…other than LUCK.

I personally do not believe this statement. There are plenty of well documented shooters in history who did not have the sighting capabilities we have today and still made good shots. Such as Timothy Murphy in the Revolutionary war shooting and killing Gen. Simon Fraser at 500 yards with Kentucky rifle in the Battle of Saratoga. He wasn't using adjustable sights and he wasn't the only example of a good sniper.

If guys could make shots like that with 18th century rifles, I see no reason I cannot learn to shoot a modern AR with irons or an optic without making adjustments and hit what I want to out to at least 400 yards.

Again, I'm not saying I won't tryout HP, do a few matches and learn everything I can. I'm not saying it doesn't take years of practice learning everything about reading distance, wind, mirage, etc that all play into taking that next good shot. I'm willing to put that time in and practice as much as it takes. I just don't buy the "It can't be done" routine when it clearly has been done in the past with much less accurate equipment.
 
It's become quite obvious, Highpower is not the game he's interested in. Supermoto's suggestion of 3 gun is closer to the mark.

I've never heard of a 3-gun match with stages past 300, never mind 600.... Not saying they don't exist, just that I've never heard of one.

No is a perfectly acceptable answer. Guess I'll be looking extra hard to purchase a piece of land to do it myself then.

Nobody said you needed to build your own range, just that the typical rifle competition is not really what you're looking for. Go join a range with a 600 yard line and practice all you want. (Though I'm not sure that any range would let you on the 600 if you don't have and know how to use adjustable sights....)

What has to be understood is if you want to hit a target at distances beyond 200yds, you either move your sights or use a ranging reticle system. There is really no other way…other than LUCK.

/thread.
 
There are plenty out there. The last Maine state 3 gun had shots out to 600

Cool. What kind of guns do they require for the distance stages? Probably not a carbine with a red dot or back-up irons.
 
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