Rifles with optics in Marine Corps bootcamp?

jasons

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Someone recently told me that recruits now qual with optics on their rifles in bootcamp. Can anyone confirm or deny that? I know guys are using them to qual once they get out into the fleet but I was surprised to hear that they get them in boot....

Based on this I think this person was mistaken: http://www.marines.mil/news/messages/Pages/MARADMIN592-10.aspx/
 
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Andy in NH

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I agree with you. The way I read that MARADIM is that recruits do not qual with an RCO (a modular attachment) in boot camp.

Whoever told you that they do is mistaken IMO.

Paragraph 3.A. clearly states (bold mine):

MARINE CORPS RECRUIT DEPOTS WILL UTILIZE IRON SIGHTS AND NO MODULAR ATTACHMENTS FOR TABLES 1 AND 2.
Paragraph 4.A. clearly states (bold mine):

TABLE 1, FUNDAMENTAL RIFLE MARKSMANSHIP (FRM)/TABLE 2, BASIC COMBAT RIFLE MARKSMANSHIP (BCRM): ENLISTED MARINES, WHILE UNDERGOING RECRUIT TRAINING, AND TBS/IOC STUDENTS MUST COMPLETE FRM AND BCRM TRAINING WITH IRON SIGHTS AND NO MODULAR ATTACHMENTS.
However, the MARADMIN was published over a year and a half ago, so there might be another that supersedes it.
 

jasons

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I agree with you. The way I read that MARADIM is that recruits do not qual with an RCO (a modular attachment) in boot camp.

Whoever told you that they do is mistaken IMO.

Paragraph 3.A. clearly states (bold mine):


Paragraph 4.A. clearly states (bold mine):


However, the MARADMIN was published over a year and a half ago, so there might be another that supersedes it.


Yeah - I found references to a pilot program that ran in 2011 that introduced optics along with irons at boot camp, but even then they still qualled with the irons.


The reason I was asking: http://www.northeastshooters.com/vbulletin/threads/164070-Optics-in-CMP-matches
 
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Hello, I shoot Division match at Camp Pendleton in March. Talk on the Wilcox range is they have gone back an forth with A2 irons and the A4 RCO. Be safe, Mark
 
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I've heard this rumor too. I don't have any objections to re-quals with duty setups, but with my first exposure to firearms being at parris island, I will forever credit the traditional marksmanship program of the Marine Corps with giving me a solid foundation with which to grow.

Mike

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There was a recent post on the other forum with a link to an article about USMC transition to M16A4 rifles for recruit training. Marine leadership was adamant about staying with irons in recruit training and officer basic.

Sorry, can't post links from the phone. Too much of a pain. Try to do it when I get home if Jason does not do it sooner.

B

http://www.marinecorpstimes.com/news/2011/02/marine-m16s-rifle-optics-at-boot-camp-021611/

The M16A4s have not been essential at boot camp, where Marine leaders have been reluctant to introduce rifle combat optics. Instead, recruits are required to learn how to shoot with iron sights.
 
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That Guy

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Wouldn't it make sense to start qualifying with both? Once with iron sights, once with optics? Everyone needs to know how to use both to keep themselves safe so wouldn't it make sense to qualify with both?
 

jasons

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Wouldn't it make sense to start qualifying with both? Once with iron sights, once with optics? Everyone needs to know how to use both to keep themselves safe so wouldn't it make sense to qualify with both?

From what I understand that is how it works today. They train and qual with irons at bootcamp and then later on (MCT / SOI?) they get introduced to the ACOGs.
 
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I was down in Quantico not too long ago and was talking with the Gunner there. I guess the Commandant recently shot the KD course with and without the RCO. He is supposed to decide sometime next year on if they will use them at boot camp, and if it will be shooters choice during annual qual.
 

Andy in NH

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Wouldn't it make sense to start qualifying with both?

Circa 2005, my unit conducted it's annual re-qualification using iron sights.

I had convinced the Bn CO to keep the unit at the range and the following week we shot the course of fire again - this time using the RCO.

Using an idea from another peer, I added a ten-round 100 yard string and a 10-round 600 yard string to the COF.

Only the score from the re-qualification week counted for promotion, but the RCO score was a source of pride for the individual, rank, and small unit.

I also ran a nighttime, short course KD qual using night-vision and thermal optics for the Bn.

After our deployment and Bn change of command, the new CO had us go back and do the same thing all over again as part of our pre-deployment training.

A buddy of mine still on active duty (Infantry Bn Ops Chief) just told me that they are using the RCO for rifle re-qual.
 

Andy in NH

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Andy, how did the scores compare?

Re-qual KD (provided by WTBN S-3):

EX - 75.57%
SS - 12.72%
MM - 10.18%
UNQ - 1.53%

RCO KD (calculated by BN S-3):

EX - 68%
SS - 23%
MM - 7%
UNQ - 2%

It may not be fair to directly compare the data as the 600 yard line string of fire for RCO KD may have skewed the results.

Unfortunately this was more of a familiarization firing than true training.
 
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