S&W 1911 trigger issue (loose)

[chris_1001]

I just bought a S&W 1911PD to replace a POS Para. The trigger on it has a lot of play in it and rattles when I shake it (hard)...

Anyone else with this issue, or just me?

I'd hate to send it in...

Chris

 

[Bugs100]

That's a common complaint about S&W PD's. It shouldn't be a problem, if you didn't shake it real hard you probaly wouldn't have really noticed it.

When I got my PD it didn't have that problem. but I carry mine and did with it what I do with all my new 1911's before I shoot them. I took it to Dave Santurri and had him do a trigger job.

Now it's a 4 pound trigger and it's the same as all my other ones. It's short money to have it done and you can tell the gunsmith how many pounds you want it set for. There's a big difference between a stock trigger and one done by a good gunsmith.

 

[chris_1001]

I noticed it when I was able to shake the trigger in the gaurd, and noticed a LOT of slop. The rattling was after I noticed the slop. I have not had more than 5 min. to play with it...

I hope once I prove this to be reliable to carry it on occasion.

Frankly, this slop has me sorta turned off... I did do a little reading on the S&W's prior to buying it, never saw this mentioned.

Can you PM me the price he charges for a trigger job and where to find him?

 

[Ricochet]

In the "build it yourself" section here there is a list. But for now:

Ag Guns & Ammo
Lowell, MA 978-452-8450

Gun and Sport North
Lawrence, MA 978-689-2722

LaRocca Gun Works, Inc.
Worcester, MA 508-754-2887

Greg Derr Precision
derrprecision@aol.com
Marshfield, MA 781-834-3225

Pete's Gun Shop
Adams, Massachusetts 413-743-0780


SANTURRI LTD.
51 Lee Street Pawtucket,
Rhode Island 02861
401-726-1310

 

[EddieCoyle]

You don't need a trigger job to get rid of that slop (in fact, a typical trigger job won't unless the trigger is also replaced).

Just replace the trigger yourself. I did in my S&W and it was a piece of cake. I did it because I wanted a short, non-serrated trigger, the slop removal was a side benefit.

Installation and fitting is easy. You just detail strip the frame and trial fit the trigger (it comes slightly oversized). Then gradually stone the top and bottom until you get a perfect fit. It took me about 1 hour including stripping the frame and putting it back together. I also had to relieve the back of the stirrup slightly to clear the grip safety.

 

[chris_1001]

Thanks for the info guys. I'll be taking a look at my Brownells catalog tonight... I did do a search and sadly the slop is "normal", sigh...

Yeah, the trigger job was not for the slop, just while swaping the trigger thought I'd toss a few $ to get the whole trigger system sorted out.

I have detail striped a 1911 before, so swaping it out is no big deal.

I just thought to expect better from S&W.

 

[wheelgun]

I had the same problem. Ordered a Greider 1911 trigger from Brownells. It comes slightly oversize, but as it turned out it was perfect right out of the box. No more rattles.

 

[Supermoto]

While you are having work done, you might as well get the barrel crowned correctly.

S&W quality control is terrible and I have little confidence in the skill of their gunsmiths.

 

[EddieCoyle]

What's the problem with the barrel crown on S&Ws (and how can I tell if my gun has it)?

 

[Supermoto]

Run the tip of your finger around the crown, if there is no blood on it when done, consider yourself lucky

On mine and alot of other S&W, the rifling is pushed out the crown, leaving jagged edges and causing poor accuracy.

The end of the barrel should transistion cleanly from the rifling to the tip of the barrel, whether it is straight and flat or beveled depends on what kind of crown you have, I had Greg Derr put a target crown on mine to protect the rifling.

Now lets talk about the crap the performance center is putting out

 

[Urj]

I had the same problem with my 1911PD. The trigger was disgusting, as were other things, but the trigger bothered me the most. I did all my own work and now it's one of the best guns I've ever shot.

Here's the thread where I did 90% of the work on it. If you need any help PM me and I'll do my best to answer questions!

http://northeastshooters.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=44390

 

[vellnueve]

Other than the serrated trigger which does irritate my finger after a few mags, everything about my SW1911 is great. If a poor crown is affecting accuracy, I'm not noticing it.

 

[chris_1001]

Ugg... Now to check the crown...

My trigger is pretty bad, I looked at it last night again... Very Disappointing

What is with all these issues on new (1911) guns? This pistol has been around almost 100 years!!!!!! There should be NO issues!!!

I just returned a Para LTC as it was such a POS it would have a failure to feed each shot. And it would not fully chamber some loads.

Why, people, why!!! These were not cheap guns... Don't say profit, these need to be 100% reliable. These QC issues can cost a life...

BTW, who makes the Smith 1911 Mags? Anyone have any issues with them? They seem OK.

Chris

 

[Supermoto]

Some Smith mags are ACT, the feed lips crack at the back. I would get Wilson, which some S&W came with, or Tripp. I have good luck with CMC Metalform both 10 rounders

If the 1911 was made by one manufacturer, then quality control would not be such an issue, but you have so many parts from alot of different companies that all need to be fitted, this iswhy cutom guns cost so much

 

[Urj]

I like the ACT mags the gun came with. I've tried CMC's and they don't work in my gun, I just got a Mec Gar for Christmas but haven't had time to try it yet, it seems like it'll be a range mag though because the follower binds in the tube.

I was going to order some Tripp Cobra mags but I'm going to wait and see how long the ACT's last.

To answer your question about the QC: A 1911 has to have nearly every single part hand fit for each gun in order to be nicely done. When the factory makes these things they just pump them out so that they function and fire so often times they take off more metal here or there so that it functions and out the door it goes.

SW's and Para's aren't "nice" guns in the 1911 world, they're in the middle of the road somewhere, it's just that for Massachusetts residents there are rarely any other options so 1911 buyers here are conditioned to think SW 1911's are nicely done. In reality a SW 1911 can be nicely done (as evident by mine) when it has extra money and work put into it. It's a nice base gun but needs more work to make it acceptable.

Nice 1911's like those made by Nighthawk, Les Baer, Wilson Combat, and other boutique builders are expensive because they're hand fit by someone who knows how to do a nice job.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

Nice 1911's like those made by Nighthawk, Les Baer, Wilson Combat, and other boutique builders are expensive because they're hand fit by someone who knows how to do a nice job.

SVI is a "nice" 1911 available in MA (Scrivener would point this out if he were still on the forum). I had a cracked Les Baer "forged" frame subject to metallurgical analysis (chemical and photo micrograpahical with etching) and it came back "fully within specifications for 1141 hot rolled plate steel with no evidence of forging or heat treating". I'm not saying that is typical of all Baers, as this is a sample of one from about 8-10 years ago.

There is no saying that Les does not stand behind his work, as he did offer the owner of the gun that was destroyed by a case head rupture a $50 discount on a replacement gun.

 

[chris_1001]

The Para was cr@p.

The Smith 1911, “should” be fine out of the box.

With modern day manufacturing processes, there is no reason parts need to be hand fitted or tuned... You tune it to get more out of it, not to get it to run.

Sure a Les Baer or Wilson with be tuned, vs mass produced. But you pay twice as much.

People here are even commenting that the SW performance center stuff needs tweaking…

This is an old design, no bugs should exist anymore, nor have rattling parts… I can get a DVD player for $50 that has hundreds of parts, vs. a pistol with what, 25-30 parts?

We have gone from machined parts to MIM and I have read that some of the Kimbers have plastic Back Straps… What’s next?

We are killing ourselves in the US by producing cr@p to save a buck or two…

For a ~$1000 gun, it should run 100% and not rattle, period. Nor should I need to buy new parts (trigger) right off the bat.

End rant…

I need a few 10 Round mags that will fit in this Smith and my Caspian (1911) with a mag well, the (SW) end plates wont work in my mag well.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

Nighthawk

I believe Nighthawk is some former Wilson Combat employees. They are getting a lot of gun press coverage for one simple reason - they are buying full page ads in the magazines. Some of the other high end handgun firms that don't buy ads are much less "interesting" to the press.

Colt was using plastic mainspring housings ("backstraps") before Kimber started making 1911s.

 

[Urj]

For a ~$1000 gun, it should run 100% and not rattle, period. Nor should I need to buy new parts (trigger) right off the bat.

I completely agree; that should be the case, but it isn't. They don't do it because they can't make the robots fit them nice, they do it because it's easier to make the parts all a little too loose so that every gun runs off the line. They leave burrs and rough edges because it's quicker to zip a gun out the door that way.

There's no excuse for the lack of quality of the product coming off the line, but there are reasons for it. Not good reasons mind you, but reasons nonetheless.

I don't know what to recommend for 10 round mags, I tried the CMC's and they didn't work in my 1911PD. I was going to try WC's but decided to just go with 8's instead.

 

[chris_1001]

The reasons are understandable, Just not acceptable. This amount of slop (in my trigger) is about 1/32+ of an inch which is way outside normal tolerancing .005" per part feature (trigger height and trigger opening total .010 vs .0313 actual).

Sure I can fix it for $20 and some time to fit and install. I hate to say the trigger on my POS Para, was nice and tight..

I did not know Colt used plastic as well on the Mainspring housing (thanks I drew a blank when I wrote that).

Wilson does have a 10 rounder in the Brownells catalog. I may try one.

 

[Greg Derr]

On Nighthawk parts: take a look at where they are made. You want to support the US manufacturers I suspect.