S&W 1911ES - Brass occasionally ejects into my face...

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BE4TNUT

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So I was at the range for the second time with my new 1911ES and I was quite surprised when a time or two the brass erected at my face hitting my eye protection. I saw someone else mention that the scandium framed guns do this occasionally. My question is, can anything be done by a gunsmith or prevent this from happening entirely?

Thanks,
BE4TNUT
 
Welcome to officer's model fun land. I've never used an officer's mod sized gun that -doesn't- do this. At least with the ones that come back at
my face they just bounce off my forehead. It might be fixable, depending.

It's part of the reason why I got away from a small 1911 and went for a G30SF.

-Mike
 
The ES is a Commander sized gun, at least as much as the brass can tell. Is this sort of issue common in Officer's sized guns? Any idea why?

The classic cause of occasional brass to the face is extractor clocking, where the extractor moves (like a clock [grin]) under recoil. It can be solved by a gunsmith or a new firing pin stop. It sounds like it's consistently doing it though, which doesn't really fit clocking. EDIT: FAIL. Smith doesn't use internal extractors, so they probably can't clock. My bad.

Might be something screwy with the ejector? If so, I imagine it can be fixed by either replacing it or rounding the tip of the ejector.
 
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TheRoland said:
It sounds like it's consistently doing it though, which doesn't really fit clocking.
Click to expand...

Well when it happened to me, it only did it for about twice out of someone around 60 rounds or so. So its not happening all the time to me, just occasionally. I got the ES with the expectations that it will soon be my carry gun, but I could see it being a problem if I ever need to use it and I get brass to my eye on the first shot or something!
 
BE4TNUT said:
Well when it happened to me, it only did it for about twice out of someone around 60 rounds or so. So its not happening all the time to me, just occasionally. I got the ES with the expectations that it will soon be my carry gun, but I could see it being a problem if I ever need to use it and I get brass to my eye on the first shot or something!
Click to expand...

Even so, I'd have to guess ejector issue. A gunsmith could probably make it not do that pretty cheaply, and can likely spot clocking, if that's what it is.
 
If its a random occurrence like you have explained, shoot the crap out of it and see if that clears it up.

If it were more frequently, like every time you fire the gun or close to it:
You can shape the nose of the ejector (sorry, not extractor) to change the deflection angle. Google info on that.
You can also play with the extractor spring tension. Get a spare one, and take a coil out of it and reinstall. See if that works. (this is for external extractors - internal extractors need to be tuned - bent at just the right tension)
If this was truly a chronic problem, it could just be a tight or loose breech. The case takes up space between the breech face and the extractor hook. Depending on how tight or loose this is, can effect where the casing gets ejected to. This is hard to fix without some heavy tools (like a mill) and a really good understanding of barrel fit and breech dimensions. If the breech is too tight, you will also get FTF issues as the extractor racks the cartridge as it tries to ram it into battery.

YMMV
 
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TheRoland said:
The ES is a Commander sized gun, at least as much as the brass can tell. Is this sort of issue common in Officer's sized guns? Any idea why?
Click to expand...

My goof... I guess I got it confused with the tiny gun they sell. So it is basically a commander with an officer's frame, more or less....

-Mike
 
Supermoto said:
Reshaping the ejector to hit higher on the case will help, as will an extended ejector. A stronger grip on the gun helps also
Click to expand...

Good advice on both points. The stiff grip/wrist is an often over looked area. Try limp wristing a luger and see how well it cycles.
 
Sir_Macadoo wins again. I forgot Smith went to external extractors! I assume they can't clock.

Shooting it some might help! My short 1911 did this until round 50 or so, and still will when I limp-wrist it.
 
yea, i had a very finicky officer model - jams, FTF, FTE, stove pipes etc. After a 1000 or so rounds, it worked just fine.
 
All great info, thanks guys. I didn't think of limo wristing maybe doing it also but that does all sorts of strange things... don't think I was link wristing it then though, but a possibliity. The gun doesn't have all to many rounds through it so if it is still doing it after about 500 rounds I will talk to a gunsmith and see what they think also.
 
Have a big strong guy at the range shoot it and see if the same thing happens.

My kimber aegis is a subcompact and it doesn't do that, it ejects very uniformly. Then again it is a custom shop gun and has a captive guide rod and an internal extractor, unlike the S&W.
 
whatluck said:
Have a big strong guy at the range shoot it and see if the same thing happens.

My kimber aegis is a subcompact and it doesn't do that, it ejects very uniformly. Then again it is a custom shop gun and has a captive guide rod and an internal extractor, unlike the S&W.
Click to expand...

Haha. I am not the strongest but at the same time I usually know when I limp wrist guns. Usually it happens at the end of shooting when I am starting to get tired late after work or something. I have a couple 5" Colt 1911's that I have never had that problem with, but they don't seem to kick as much with the longer barrel. It could be me, it could just need to be broken in. But I will give it some more time and rounds down it and if it is still happening I should be able to tell, and if not, I will have someone watching me and tell me if its me or not.
 
Its not an question of limp wristing the gun. Its about being aggressive behind the gun. I have seen people with a decent grip take case after case to the head. If I stand next to them, I can see the case coming straight out of the ejection port and hit their face. If I change their grip and the problem is reduced, but its difficult for them to stay aggressive for long period. Its a combination of poor ejection path, late ejection and high recoil.
 
Supermoto said:
Its not an question of limp wristing the gun. Its about being aggressive behind the gun. I have seen people with a decent grip take case after case to the head. If I stand next to them, I can see the case coming straight out of the ejection port and hit their face. If I change their grip and the problem is reduced, but its difficult for them to stay aggressive for long period. Its a combination of poor ejection path, late ejection and high recoil.
Click to expand...

I didn't think of that combination to have that effect. When you say "stay aggressive" you mean the stance or what? Just trying to see what you mean to see if I can maybe correct myself to reduce it.

radioman said:
That sounds very scary!![grin]
Click to expand...

It happens to fast to be scary haha. Just glad I wasn't shooting with just glasses on or something. Would be a true test for prescription polycarbonate lenses haha. Luckily I had contacts in with shooting glasses.
 
with the scandiums, you need a good strong grip that completely wraps around the gun, thumbs high with strong wrist (but not doing a push pull), the gun should snap up and snap back down without forcing it to do that. This will make the ejection path more vertical
 
Supermoto said:
with the scandiums, you need a good strong grip that completely wraps around the gun, thumbs high with strong wrist (but not doing a push pull), the gun should snap up and snap back down without forcing it to do that. This will make the ejection path more vertical
Click to expand...

Thanks for the tip. I will pay attention to that next time I am at the range and see if the gun is exhibiting that behavior. I know I am doing something wrong with it I keep shooting low and to the left on it. I corrected that problem on my other guns which I shoot good with now, but this one 1911 is still doing it to me. Going to get some one on one time with an instructor I think soon to help me iron out the bugs on this one for me.
 
Low left is a flinch, you are trying to control recoil. Just be neutral with the gun. A good instructor should be able to get you squared away quickly
 

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