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s&w 442
- Thread starter STANLEY0789
- Start date
gerrycaruso
NES Member
The 442 weighs 15 oz. It's not going to have "very little " recoil no matter what you shoot out of it. The recoil will be more noticeable to a new shooter. I think your best option is to practice with very light bullet loads or full wadcutters, at least in the beginning. When carried, the gun can be loaded with +p which that model is rated for. Another option is to practice with a .22 revolver if you have access to one of similar size.
umc ammo is pretty soft, as are most full wadcutters. Speer +p gold dots are definately not!
J
Jose
I hate to say this, but aluminum snub nose revolvers are the absolute worst pistol to buy for a woman, particularly if she did not have a hand in the decision.
They will kick with any ammo you can find except maybe wadcutters at 500 fps. Any sort of defense-worthy ammo is going to smart when you shoot it.
And forget the same guns in .357 Magnum.
They will kick with any ammo you can find except maybe wadcutters at 500 fps. Any sort of defense-worthy ammo is going to smart when you shoot it.
And forget the same guns in .357 Magnum.
That statement is absolutely narrow minded and rediculous. It's almost funny.
Aluminum revolvers are great for women. They're small and light which is great for women who may be smaller and have less room to hide a pistol. They're also very reliable and require little or no maintenance. The operation of a 442 could not be simpler. Pull the trigger, that's it. No hammer to get caught inside a purse or pocket. And furthermore, a 442 with rubber grips and standard pressure ammo is really not all that bad recoil-wise for most women at all. Nevermind if you load your own mild loads for her to practice with and then she can put +P rounds in there for self defense.
The last thing she is going to think about in a self defense situation is the recoil of the gun she is using to defend her life with. If you were to suggest that teaching someone how to shoot with a snub nose is less than ideal, you would have a point. But that does not have anything to do with being a woman or a man. But buying an aluminum snub nose revolver for a woman is an excellent choice in terms of self defense weapons, and under the circumstances, a small 442 with an internal hammer, and a lightweight allow frame is a very useful tactical weapon.
J
Jose
![[rolleyes]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/042.gif "Roll Eyes [rolleyes]")
Gee whiz, bob, the next two people after you disagree with you. Wonder why that might be?
In case you are wondering, I do have an Airweight and it is almost universally disliked by every new shooter I give it to (regardless of gender) because of its sharp recoil.
I also have news for you bob, practice and training needs to include a healthy amount of full power, defensive ammo to be meaningful. Less of it will be done if it stings every time you pull the trigger.
An all-steel J frame in .38 Special +P (NOT .357 Magnum) is a much better choice for the recoil sensitive who don't like or can't use a semi auto effectively.
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+1
I have a 642 (same gun as the 442, just different finish). The thing hurts no matter what ammo I shoot out of it. Lightweight snubnose revolvers are simply a very bad choice for novice shooters.
ochmude
Marine Veteran
BINGO....regardless of gender. Until someone has become accustomed to shooting, a lightweight snubby will risk making that individual very recoil sensitive and cause them to develop a definite flinch.
Gee whiz, bob, the next two people after you disagree with you. Wonder why that might be?
In case you are wondering, I do have an Airweight and it is almost universally disliked by every new shooter I give it to (regardless of gender) because of its sharp recoil.
I also have news for you bob, practice and training needs to include a healthy amount of full power, defensive ammo to be meaningful. Less of it will be done if it stings every time you pull the trigger.
An all-steel J frame in .38 Special +P (NOT .357 Magnum) is a much better choice for the recoil sensitive who don't like or can't use a semi auto effectively.
The gun was purchased for cc. Not teaching someone to shoot. The fact that she is new to shooting is a secondary issue, the revolver is an excelent choice for what the author of this thread intended it for, Concealed CarryingThat is where you are missing the boat. If she wants to learn how to shoot she should pick up a .22. And no, I don't think that training with a snubnose requires a healthy dose of full power defensive ammo to be meaningful. The intention of a hammerless snub nose is to defend yourself at ranges where you may not have the opportunity to pull it out of the pocket or do not have time to have it get caught on something like a pocketbook, because your attacker is virtually on top of you already. Trigger discipline is not as important of an issue at these ranges, and I think you'd be just fine to be familiar with full power loads but not necessarily have to use them all of the time.
Is it a better choice for CC as that is the real issue here, and the one that you seem to be missing?
And there are plenty of people who prefer revolvers to automatics for cc. It's not an issue of being able to use them effectively, if that is really what you believe to be true.
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That's the original post. I added the bold to show you what the intentions of the purchase was. I was arguing with another poster who said that the 442 is a bad choice for a woman. My argument was that in relevance to CC (remember, the thing that was the reason that the gun was purchased?), the 442 is a great choice. If she is a novice shooter and wants to learn to shoot, she should be shooting a .22. If she wants a good cc gun, the 442 is an excellent choice. Novice shooter or not. People are not novice shooters forever, and a 442 now, and a 442 by the time she is an expert, is an excellent CC gun. That is all. The guy wants ammo with very little recoil. He didn't say he's teaching her to shoot with a 442. For all we know he has more than one handgun. That is very likely. He could just want her to get some practice with the 442 as well as another gun and want light loads to start her off with. A couple or more grains of 231 under a 148 gr. DEWC is not going to be too hard on her.
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ochmude
Marine Veteran
Wow, sorry if I offended you. Perhaps I should have added the winking smiley at the end of my post to more effectively convey the levity I thought was apparent in reference to your bananas comment.
No matter how much she shoots it, my wife dislikes the 642CT I originally bought for her. I have tried everything under the sun as far as ammo goes, so I gave up and started carrying it myself. That being said, she did shoot a Model 40 and seemed to like it - perhaps there is something to the added weight....
dixidawg
NES Member
And you may be missing the fact that if she doesn't like it and is not comfortable with it she most likely won't carry it.
Doesn't make for a very good CCW if it is home in the safe.
Agreed. A .22 in the purse beats an airweight in the safe.
A.) Where did I give you the impression that you offended me? Because you certainly did not.
B.) And until this post that you made, I was under the impression that you and I were having a constructive discussion about the subject at hand.
And that's just it...it wasn't like popped off a few rounds and decided she didn't like it. I tried the mildest loads I could find and it was a no-go....I figured it would be hard to convince her to train with and ultimately carry a gun she hated...
I disagree with that logic altogether. I go in the woods in Bear land with a .454 because I feel outgunned with something that I like to shoot and am comfortable shooting. Anyone who has shot a .454 can probably relate to this. I downright dislike to shoot those loads and with exception to rare occasion, I never do. I shoot 45 colts in it. But when it comes to walking in bear territory, you bet I'm comfortable with it. I could take that nice model 14, It sure would be comfortable to shoot wouldn't it? But it might not get the job done. Priorities.
ochmude
Marine Veteran
How about we just both chalk it up to the difficultly to convey tone online in a written format. Your post seemed to me to have an overall hostile tone, or at least a mildly agitated tone, considering the bolds and increase in font size. This does tend to suggest shouting in a written medium. I thought I may have offended you in some way or struck a nerve because I jokingly reference the comment you made about the price of bananas, which gave me a little chuckle when I read it. I thought it was funny, so I referenced it in my post. Apparently I misinterpreted you. For that, I sincerely apologize. I am still under the impression that we're having an constructive discussion.
The women that I have trained would disagree with your logic. In my experience, they simply won't shoot something that hurts their hands, and won't carry it either. The 642/442 is simply a non-starter for them.
I'm sure there are some women who carry and shoot a 642/442. But I haven't met one.
J
Jose
Attention Northeastshooters.com: BOBKATT is never wrong. Regardless how many women tell him/she/it that airweights are NOT a good choice for a novice shooter (particularly a woman novice), it does not matter to him. He knows what he knows and that is that.
After all, what's the use in practicing with the pistol AND ammo that you will actually carry?
Hey bob, I have news for you. The California Highway Patrol lost four officers in a shootout in a place called Newhall back about 35 years ago. The CHP discovered during their inqury that very few hits were scored by its officers during that fact. The inquiry further concluded that a major contributing factor in the low hit percentage was the difference in recoil and muzzle flash between the .38 Special ammunition used for all CHP firearms training, practice, and qualification back then compared to the duty load of 125 grain .357 Magnums.
Maybe they (the largest state police agency in the nation) know what they are talking about.
After all, what's the use in practicing with the pistol AND ammo that you will actually carry?
Hey bob, I have news for you. The California Highway Patrol lost four officers in a shootout in a place called Newhall back about 35 years ago. The CHP discovered during their inqury that very few hits were scored by its officers during that fact. The inquiry further concluded that a major contributing factor in the low hit percentage was the difference in recoil and muzzle flash between the .38 Special ammunition used for all CHP firearms training, practice, and qualification back then compared to the duty load of 125 grain .357 Magnums.
Maybe they (the largest state police agency in the nation) know what they are talking about.
ochmude
Marine Veteran
Hopefully the OP's question has been answered. If not, I'll lend my $.02 and say the airweights have a kick to them and not much in the realm of ammo selection can be done to counter that. It's something you just have to get used to. If you're wife isn't comfortable shooting it at the range yet, she shouldn't carry it yet. She should carry something she is confident with and will not hesitate to use. 442/642 and the like are great carry weapons. I carry a 442 three nights a week while working security. That being said, I had to practice with it for quite awhile to get used to the snappy recoil, and I've shot everything from a .22 to a SMAW. If your wife wants to carry, but she doesn't like the 442, here's an idea for you. Use that as an excuse to buy another gun that she does like, and keep the 442 for yourself. That way everyone's happy.
First of all, this is pretty immature, and it is unfortunate to see you post in a manner such as this. Second of all, your argument is flawed. If you don't see the difference between a shootout situation with police officers on duty and a woman protecting herself with a snubbie from rape or other similar attacks, I suggest you find yourself some training. Perhaps, consider reading a book on self defense. Something by Ayoob, possibly.
I happen to know two women who are members at my local range who carry snubbies. One is an airweight. Bluntly put, they will tell you that shooting a snubbie is painful and uncomfortable. But it conceals well in a purse or jacket pocket, does not snag, and is dead nuts reliable. For these reasons, they have made the decision to carry this type of firearm because "The pain in their palm is better than pain between their legs." Upon hearing this actual phrase, I was more than convinced.
I have a friend who carries a scandium snubby with full house magnum loads. Of course, she's an experienced shooter and gun nut. She and her now husband exchanged his and hers AR-15s as engagement presents.
