S&W J-Frame or Taurus 856 - And the winner is

[pipmaster1971]

OK...Yet another small revolver (J-Frame) question....I posted this as a post in another thread, but I think it deserves it's own thread.

I currently use my SigP229 or my Colt 1911 "Defender" as a carry piece. However, the Sig is a little heavy, and the Colt is single action (I'm a wuss, and the fact the hammer is always cocked scares the poop out of me sometimes).

Looking at one of the following as a carry piece:

S&W 637
S&W 2 1/8" model 60
S&W 340 - but it's really pricey..
S&W 442

All good revolvers for sure. But....Is a .38 or .38+P enough? Or should one also consider a .357 capable firearm?

I've also seen a review of the new Taurus 856. I would prefer a S&W (an American brand, reliable, holds value better etc...)...BUT the idea of a 6 shot small-frame revolver does have an appeal. Plus it's much cheaper.

So, what do you guys think? Taurus or S&W? If S&W would the 637 be good (which is the one I'm leaning towards)?

 

[jar]

Why the 637? The exposed hammer gives you something to snag on the draw. IMO you shouldn't ever be shooting a defensive revolver single action. I'm planning to pick up the Heller commemorative 442 at some point. Definitely shoot some 357 out of a 340 before you buy one. The recoil with 38+P is enough for me.

 

[strangenh]

The model 60 is a great small revolver. .38+P is fine for close-in defense, but the 60 can also take .357mags, and it's got enough mass to make them reasonably controllable. I'd get an ultralight revolver only if the steel J-frame weight at 21 oz. is a serious issue. But then you'll probably never use .357mag.

Also, Taurus triggers have a tendency to SUCK. With a snub, you will have enough problems being on target without a gritty trigger and staging to gum up your POI.

 

[pipmaster1971]

Why the 637? The exposed hammer gives you something to snag on the draw. IMO you shouldn't ever be shooting a defensive revolver single action. I'm planning to pick up the Heller commemorative 442 at some point. Definitely shoot some 357 out of a 340 before you buy one. The recoil with 38+P is enough for me.

Yeah....I tried some 357 rounds out of a J-frame once. It hurt more than one of Jim's .500 loads.

About the exposed hammer. Doesn't the option of single action provide "some" benefits?

 

[EddieCoyle]

I highly recommend the 642.

 

[Moderator]

Doesn't the option of single action provide "some" benefits?

Maybe for the range, but not really for defense and or ccw.

 

[pipmaster1971]

I highly recommend the 642.

Yup...good price too.....Not sure about the new variant with the "power port" option though

 

[mark056]

I have a 637, I would prefer a 642 for the reasons cited in another post. Overall I think the 642 would be a better choice than the Taurus.

If weight is not a factor for you, the Ruger SP101 is also a viable option, especially the "hammerless or bobbed hammer variant." I have one of those too, which I also carry, but some might find the weight bothersome, I don't. It does not adapt as well for pocket carry, either, which is how I carry the 637 (in a pocket holster, of course).

I cannot say that modern Taurus revolvers are a bad choice (I know what FS says about them on their website...but how many of you have actually fired a Taurus?), and frequently are a great firearm for someone on a budget...but I do have my predjudices and they definitely lean towards the S&W or Ruger.

The best snubbie in my opinion: The Colt Detective Special, I have one of those too, but it is now in retirement.

Mark L.

 

[jar]

re exposed hammer: I'm no expert, but I don't see the benefit of single action on a small defensive revolver. I can't think of a situation where you'd need to use it and have time to cock the hammer.

re 642 v 442: I like the corrosion resistance of stainlesson the 642, but I also like the black color of the 442 to make the gun less noticable. I think there would be a market for a stainless gun with a black carbo-nitride coating (like the M&P semi-autos).

 

[MassMark]

I highly recommend the 642.

Seconded. Pip - with a 642 and some 135gr +P Speers on board, you're going to have a potent carry gun. Jim stocks his with Remington 158's - either will serve you well.

 

[Brian48]

Been carrying my M60 for nearly 15 years now. Absolutely love it, but I do admit the trigger spur can sometimes snag on clothing. To off set the problem, I've trained myself to aways grasp the gun from the holster (or my pocket) with my thumb positioned firmly underneath the trigger spur instead of wrapped around the grip. Once clear of any clothing, I simply move my thumb and assume my usual hold. This methods allows for a firmer hold and virtually eliminates the snagging problem.

 

[vellnueve]

If you can train yourself to cock as you draw, then the SA trigger can be useful...

Anyways, my vote is for one option you have not considered, the S&W 638. Same size as the 637 and 642, but it will not snag due to the shrouded hammer design. I have one, and it's very nice. Use DA for defensive purposes, and you still have SA for range use or other situations that may require more control on the shot.

 

[PaulD]

If you want a revolver, I'd stick with an S&W J frame of whatever flavor suits you (I'd get a 442 personally). However, since you're in a free state, why not something like a Kahr, Walther PPS or Keltec?

 

[pipmaster1971]

If you can train yourself to cock as you draw, then the SA trigger can be useful...

Anyways, my vote is for one option you have not considered, the S&W 638. Same size as the 637 and 642, but it will not snag due to the shrouded hammer design. I have one, and it's very nice. Use DA for defensive purposes, and you still have SA for range use or other situations that may require more control on the shot.

Hmmmm.....Excellent point!!!

Looks like I'm down to the 638 vs 642.

 

[vellnueve]

 

[Fooped]

If you can train yourself to cock as you draw, then the SA trigger can be useful...

Sounds scary to me, especially under pressure.

 

[jar]

I agree with Fooped. I have a few further issues with cocking on the draw also. It complicates your training: now you have two trigger pulls to master instead of one. It also compromises your grip on the gun. I think defensive use of the jframe (and handguns in general) will most likely be within bad breath distance. You're not going to need the accuracy gain at these distances, and having your thumb on the hammer instead of on the grip is going to make weapon retention more difficult during the draw.

All that said, I'm a relative newbie to defensive handgun, and I don't yet own/train with a snubby. I'm curious what some trainers have to say on this, especially Michael de Bethencourt.

 

[strangenh]

Sounds scary to me, especially under pressure.

I agree. Fine motor skills go under stress. The less fumble, the better. DAO snubs are the way to go. Get a good DAO Smith with their good factory triggers, and have someone smooth it even more. Good to go.

 

[vellnueve]

Well, the thing with the 638 is that it works fine as a DA snub. It doesn't snag at all, has the same trigger, same round, same accuracy... actually, pretty much all the same parts except the frame and the hammer. It's a mystery to me why so few people choose them.

And if you don't want to train to shoot SA in self defense, then you just use the DA mode.

 

[strangenh]

Well, the thing with the 638 is that it works fine as a DA snub. It doesn't snag at all, has the same trigger, same round, same accuracy... actually, pretty much all the same parts except the frame and the hammer. It's a mystery to me why so few people choose them.

And if you don't want to train to shoot SA in self defense, then you just use the DA mode.

I guess that works fine, as does a bobbed hammer. I just find the Smith DAO revolvers I've tried have showed up with a somewhat better trigger for double-action. But a good gunsmith can always tweak it to one's liking anyhow. And I've never tried a 638, so whadda I know?

 

[pipmaster1971]

I guess that works fine, as does a bobbed hammer. I just find the Smith DAO revolvers I've tried have showed up with a somewhat better trigger for double-action. But a good gunsmith can always tweak it to one's liking anyhow. And I've never tried a 638, so whadda I know?

I kind of agree with him. Certainly my prime role for this is as a defensive weapon...BUT the ability to use SA on the range does have a great appeal.

 

[eisenhow]

It's a mystery to me why so few people choose them.

It may have to do with the fact they are so effing ugly looking

 

[vellnueve]

My AR is effing ugly too, but it does the job and does it well.

 

[Chuck Would]

On the question of Smith VS Taurus, I'd go with a S&W EVERY time.

However, I carry a 1911 all the time. Usually an Officer's Model, but I have a couple Kimbers and a Colt Defender that play a back up role.

Remember you have the grip safety on your side and if that doesn't ease your SA fear buy a good carry holster with a thumb break that puts leather between the frame and the hammer.

Another idea might be to look around for a P7M8. The Grip Cocker takes away that type of fear.

Hope that helps,

 

[hedgehog]

J frame, that was easy...

 

[b79holmes]

642CT

I highly recommend the 642.

I have to second this. I have a 642CT. I am amazed at how well I shoot it at 5 to 7 yards; laser on or laser off. Greg Derr set the trigger just right.

I though about what to get for a long time and after some self defense research realized this is not a single action range gun.

Bill

 

[depicts]

I prefer the Smith.

I carry a 442, a 640 and a Bodyguard Airweight. (Not always all at once)

The only advantage I see to the Bodyguard, is I can cock it for single action at the range to show off how accurate the gun is at 25 or 50 yards.

The main DIS-advantage is the open hammer allows dirt to enter, and I have had a jam caused by this after firing over 50 rounds. I put the gun away, and when I picked it up again and tried to dry fire it, it wouldn't allow me to pull the trigger. There was a tiny... and I mean tiny... piece of plastic that had gotten between the hammer block and the hammer, and wouldn't allow the gun to cock.

So now I'm back to carrying my 442 again.

All of my J frames shoot great with 158 grain ammo and fixed sights. I have a few of them, and they each have the same manual of arms, which makes it easy to use one or the other.

I like the 442 because it is black, and harder to see in my pocket, but the 642 is great too.

Shooting .357 with the SS 640 is no big deal, after gradually working up to it. They are kind of heavy to carry in the pocket though.

The 442 and 642 are ideal!

 

[Blues508]

I would agree that the 442 and 642 are both as close to perfection for your purposes as you'll find.

 

[pipmaster1971]

And the winner is...

A S&W 442....I picked this up from Stateline Gun shop in Mason NH yesterday:

 

[jar]

Nice choice man. I'm planning to pick one of those up soon too, to take advantage of the $30 rebate.