Safes, am I over thinking?

The TSC safes that are made by Liberty... does anyone know if those can be retrofitted with a dial lock? I'm not a fan of elocks
They can not
Well except for any heat treated items, rubber and some plastics it shouldn't be an issue. :eek:
and how is any of that affected by 350 degrees??

2 mag dumps out of a AR and the barrel is approaching 600 degrees.

350 degrees is nothing in the world of heat
I never thought of that approach for gaining entry into a "gun cabinet." [thinking] I'll admit, that's pretty slick. [bow][bow] [bow] I commend your ingenuity. Here I was thinking pry the door open. [slap] Guess I'd make a pretty shitty burglar. [laugh]

I wonder if there's any way to address that strength/design flaw?

10 minutes for a TSC safe? That sounds about right. So the difference between owning a "gun cabinet" and owning a TSC safe is about... 10 minutes. [rofl][rockon][cheers]
I had a TS safe at one time , I liked it , they’re well worth the cheap price

I didn’t understand the lack of security until I took the door apart to change out the E lock to a dial , that’s when I saw thing just didn’t add up , from the outside it looks secure , from the inside it was all smoke and mirrors and a couple pieces of sheet metal holding those 1” impressive looking bolts and a 10-32 screw holding on the locking servo 🤣😂🤣

Remember that 10 minutes involved a 1/2 cobalt drill bit , a 1/2 drill , and knowing exactly where to drill it because I had the same safe and I got to study the workings before attempting the break in

Don’t get me wrong , for the money it literally can’t be beat , it’s a great deal and a huge upgrade from the sheet metal lockers
 
I had a TS safe at one time , I liked it , they’re well worth the cheap price

I didn’t understand the lack of security until I took the door apart to change out the E lock to a dial , that’s when I saw thing just didn’t add up , from the outside it looks secure , from the inside it was all smoke and mirrors and a couple pieces of sheet metal holding those 1” impressive looking bolts and a 10-32 screw holding on the locking servo 🤣😂🤣

Remember that 10 minutes involved a 1/2 cobalt drill bit , a 1/2 drill , and knowing exactly where to drill it because I had the same safe and I got to study the workings before attempting the break in

Don’t get me wrong , for the money it literally can’t be beat , it’s a great deal and a huge upgrade from the sheet metal lockers
Nothing against TSC gun safes. No intent to bash. If timing and circumstances were a little different, I might have owned one myself.

My intent... and you proved it... was to lament the short amount of time it takes to gain entry to any gun cabinet or gun safe short of a ~2,000 pound monster that can only be mounted on a concrete floor (typically a basement floor here in the Northeast). It's a lot of expense and a lot of trouble... and then some scumbag holds a gun to your head and says open it or else. Then it's no more effective than a gun cabinet or TSC special.

I guess I'm slowly becoming a fan of the new high-end lightweight (some call them "ultra-lightweight") gun safes. which can be more easily placed and hidden than the 2,000 pound monsters. For about the same reason, I've also been a fan of certain modular safes.
 
Nothing against TSC gun safes. No intent to bash. If timing and circumstances were a little different, I might have owned one myself.

My intent... and you proved it... was to lament the short amount of time it takes to gain entry to any gun cabinet or gun safe short of a ~2,000 pound monster that can only be mounted on a concrete floor (typically a basement floor here in the Northeast). It's a lot of expense and a lot of trouble... and then some scumbag holds a gun to your head and says open it or else. Then it's no more effective than a gun cabinet or TSC special.

I guess I'm slowly becoming a fan of the new high-end lightweight (some call them "ultra-lightweight") gun safes. which can be more easily placed and hidden than the 2,000 pound monsters. For about the same reason, I've also been a fan of certain modular safes.
I actually own a Dakota modular safe , I’ve since replaced it with a superior supreme series , but can’t bring myself to sell the Dakota modular one because it’s so easy to relocate anywhere by myself and I also like the idea that if I move it to another location no one would know it was a safe
 
I think that distinguishing between RSCs and safes is vitally important (as has been pointed out). ANY container can be breached: if it was made with tools, it can be unmade with tools. That said, the vast majority of "gun safes" sold are residential security containers, which deter children and smash and grab thieves. RSCs are very good within their limits, and I use one. The biggest issue with an RSC is mistaking it for a safe and then failing to address its inherent weaknessess: light weight and light weight. Light weight works against them first by the fact that if two guys and a dolly brought it into your house, 2 guys and a dolly can bring it right back out. Light weight also works against them by leaving the top and sides VERY thin. Both of these issues can be mitigated vs an attacker who cannot spend 30 minutes inside your home with an angle grinder. First, you absolutely must bolt the safe down. This not only keeps it from being removed as a complete unit, it also restricts access to the vulnerable back top and sides. If you then stack things that are both heavy and cumbersome around the safe, you also force an attacker to deal with the door (far and away the strongest part of an RSC) or spend a bunch of time rearranging your junk. It is vitally important to remember that thieves do not care about your drywall, and will happily bash a hole through your wall to get at the back of your safe.

It seems like folks who have the option of building or retrofitting and need extra security often go with a built in vault. Steel reinforced concrete with embedded steel fibers (which devour concrete saw blades) is a powerful deterrent, and making the walls of such a structure thick is relatively cheap. Such a vault can still be overcome, but part of the overall system is the ability to prevent hostile dudes form setting up a jackhammer in your house for a few hours.
 
I think that distinguishing between RSCs and safes is vitally important (as has been pointed out). ANY container can be breached: if it was made with tools, it can be unmade with tools. That said, the vast majority of "gun safes" sold are residential security containers, which deter children and smash and grab thieves. RSCs are very good within their limits, and I use one.

A biased, but interesting read on the UL RSC rating: Are Gun Safe Security Ratings Outdated?

It seems like folks who have the option of building or retrofitting and need extra security often go with a built in vault. Steel reinforced concrete with embedded steel fibers (which devour concrete saw blades) is a powerful deterrent, and making the walls of such a structure thick is relatively cheap. Such a vault can still be overcome, but part of the overall system is the ability to prevent hostile dudes form setting up a jackhammer in your house for a few hours.
God bless those that can do that and, at the same time, not let anyone (outside of immediate family) know that they are doing it. [cheers]
 
I've said this before but there is no huge reason in my mind to obsess over safe size, nobody says you can't buy another as your collection grows. And smaller safes can allow self moving, additional security as they gotta break into each separately, as well as options for smaller rocks that can be arranged more flexibly into spaces - it's nice to have at least a small one in the bedroom for instance. Myself I say stick with safes you can move, I would rather have 4x 20-gun models that weigh 300 lbs that I can get up/down stairs with a friend and a 2-wheeler versus a 1500 lb monster which I gotta pay someone to move.
 
A biased, but interesting read on the UL RSC rating: Are Gun Safe Security Ratings Outdated?


God bless those that can do that and, at the same time, not let anyone (outside of immediate family) know that they are doing it. [cheers]
I completely agree, but a big part of my post is that RSCs offer highly non-uniform protection. The sides and top of an RSC do not compare well with the body panels on 1950s automobiles, while the front/door is often pretty stout. A thief that has easy access to the sides of a safe or who can tip it over can get in VERY fast. If they have to spend half an hour trying to fiddle with unexpectedly heavy stuff stacked around a safe bolted down in a closet, they may give up.

Again, my goal is a reinforced concrete vault, but like many of us, that's still an aspiration at this point.
 
I completely agree, but a big part of my post is that RSCs offer highly non-uniform protection. The sides and top of an RSC do not compare well with the body panels on 1950s automobiles, while the front/door is often pretty stout. A thief that has easy access to the sides of a safe or who can tip it over can get in VERY fast. If they have to spend half an hour trying to fiddle with unexpectedly heavy stuff stacked around a safe bolted down in a closet, they may give up.
I 100% agree. [thumbsup]
Again, my goal is a reinforced concrete vault, but like many of us, that's still an aspiration at this point.
Your goal and everybody else's! [rockon] The trick is to achieve that goal without anyone else knowing about it... 'cause people do talk and you don't want your house to become known in town as that "house with the gun vault in the basement"! That would be bad. [thinking] In a small town like mine, my "secret" would last about 15 minutes. [slap]

The good wife and I just finished building our retirement place and, or course, you have to submit detailed house plans to the town. They become public documents and anyone can look at them. As such, while we talked about building certain 'security features' into the house, in the end we thought it wiser not to advertise. 😎
 
I 100% agree. [thumbsup]

Your goal and everybody else's! [rockon] The trick is to achieve that goal without anyone else knowing about it... 'cause people do talk and you don't want your house to become known in town as that "house with the gun vault in the basement"! That would be bad. [thinking] In a small town like mine, my "secret" would last about 15 minutes. [slap]

The good wife and I just finished building our retirement place and, or course, you have to submit detailed house plans to the town. They become public documents and anyone can look at them. As such, while we talked about building certain 'security features' into the house, in the end we thought it wiser not to advertise. 😎
It's looking more and more like I'm going to be out in the sticks in East Texas, and while it is beautiful, the locals vary from "unfathomably wealthy" to "Walter White's dumbest protege". I am learning to pour cement.
 
It's looking more and more like I'm going to be out in the sticks in East Texas, and while it is beautiful, the locals vary from "unfathomably wealthy" to "Walter White's dumbest protege". I am learning to pour cement.
Are you going to buck the Texas norm and go "basement"? Or just build on a slab or a crawl space?

The nice thing about Texas is that you can always claim your gun vault is really a Tornado shelter. [thumbsup] No one would question that. [cheers]

Around here, you have to claim on your plans that your gun vault is really a wine cellar, assuming if you want to be discrete. ;)

Explaining the 1,000 pound door and the raised floor could raise eyebrows. [rofl]
 
Are you going to buck the Texas norm and go "basement"? Or just build on a slab or a crawl space?

The nice thing about Texas is that you can always claim your gun vault is really a Tornado shelter. [thumbsup] No one would question that. [cheers]

Around here, you have to claim on your plans that your gun vault is really a wine cellar, assuming if you want to be discrete. ;)

Explaining the 1,000 pound door and the raised floor could raise eyebrows. [rofl]
That really depends upon the water table. East Texas has an enormous amount of clay, and water tables which are surprisingly high. It is very, very easy to have an unintended indoor swimming pool here.
 
Some great information here. The well built is a Reed Custom, also branded Summit. I like mine.

View: https://youtu.be/6LgKThatkjM


Before the office was built around it, saved $1000 at the tent sale.
 

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I’m looking at Liberty Safes and some Tractor Supply/Bass Pro branded ones and am I over thinking that I don’t really need a level three fire resistant safe? Or even a two for that matter?

I think I just want something large enough to bolt to my finished basement floor, that looks nice -ish

What have you guys gone with? I’d prefer to be sub 2k$
I bought the largest safe to fit my space and the largest useable interior and have room for the cabinet around it.
I lined the cabinet with the “sheet rock” that goes above furnaces. I figure if theres a fire my guns are the least of my worries.
Might be a a better idea to insure your guns.
Oh I bought a inexpensive safe basically for “storage” requirements.
 

tax and delivery/installation to my 2nd floor (outdoor windy dumb shitty stairs) apartment came to 1k even..ish

I love it, those shelves can be moved up and down the entire length, my sbr fits perefctly as is, it also has gun-rack style inserts to replace the flat solid shelves for multi-long guns
 

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Sturdy safe - Google it and watch their vids. Mass market safes are toys in comparison.
No question that "Sturdy" is a great heavy-duty gun safe. 👍The problem is that they are made 3,000 miles away. My former friend (now R.I.P.) on the upper west coast bought one and put it in his garage. It was the only place he could put it that it wouldn't collapse the floor. :oops:

I guess I feel that buying a super-heavy, one-off, custom-made gun safe from a firm 3,000 miles away if going to leave you paying a whole lot for transport that otherwise could have been put to better use elsewhere (either in more/better safe features or other security aspects). 🤔

Does anyone know of a closer gun safe firm that does business similar to the Sturdy model? An "east coast? Sturdy?
 
No question that "Sturdy" is a great heavy-duty gun safe. 👍The problem is that they are made 3,000 miles away. My former friend (now R.I.P.) on the upper west coast bought one and put it in his garage. It was the only place he could put it that it wouldn't collapse the floor. :oops:

I guess I feel that buying a super-heavy, one-off, custom-made gun safe from a firm 3,000 miles away if going to leave you paying a whole lot for transport that otherwise could have been put to better use elsewhere (either in more/better safe features or other security aspects). 🤔

Does anyone know of a closer gun safe firm that does business similar to the Sturdy model? An "east coast? Sturdy?

I don't know but at some price point you could basically haved it poured from concrete, have it welded from layers of steel with a layer of glass or something between to defeat a torch and hamper other tools, all sorts of options if you trust the people doing the work.

I know of a house where they poured a 20 x 8 concrete room with a concrete and steel ceiling, off the basement. Guy still hasn't put the door on it yet but is essentially a bomb shelter, safe room, vault, no idea. Not a prepper, a criminal, a gun in the house nor anything requiring such. Normal house, normal neighborhood, normal dude, just had a little extra $$ and an idea that fit into renovations - kinda funny.

But seriously a giant ridiculous safe can be stood up anywhere via concrete and/or welding - only intricate component is the door and I'm sure there are off the shelf lock mechanisms at a variety of price points.
 
I don't know but at some price point you could basically have it poured from concrete, have it welded from layers of steel with a layer of glass or something between to defeat a torch and hamper other tools, all sorts of options if you trust the people doing the work.

I know of a house where they poured a 20 x 8 concrete room with a concrete and steel ceiling, off the basement. Guy still hasn't put the door on it yet but is essentially a bomb shelter, safe room, vault, no idea. Not a prepper, a criminal, a gun in the house nor anything requiring such. Normal house, normal neighborhood, normal dude, just had a little extra $$ and an idea that fit into renovations - kinda funny.

But seriously a giant ridiculous safe can be stood up anywhere via concrete and/or welding - only intricate component is the door and I'm sure there are off the shelf lock mechanisms at a variety of price points.
And that part I highlighted is the key. And it's not just do you trust them to be competent and honest. It's... do you trust them not to ever say a word about your secret gun vault project to any other human being. That's a tough standard. Those that know such people are very lucky indeed. [cheers]

BTW, have you priced the cost of gun vault doors lately? The good ones are not cheap. [thinking]
 
I purchased a Republic safe 8 or 10 years ago, competitive price with the box store brands but a little better fire rating plus they had a somewhat smallish safe to fit a specific spot in my house. They were a product line of Hollon Safe. It looks like Republic has been discontinued and replaced with "New Republic". Not sure why, maybe they were inspired by Coke & New Coke.

Anyway, here's the URL for Hollon Safe: Home - Hollon Their distribution network was somewhat limited back then but a locksmith about 15 miles away (in eastern MA) carried them and there was no issue scheduling a delivery.
 
I purchased a Republic safe 8 or 10 years ago, competitive price with the box store brands but a little better fire rating plus they had a somewhat smallish safe to fit a specific spot in my house. They were a product line of Hollon Safe. It looks like Republic has been discontinued and replaced with "New Republic". Not sure why, maybe they were inspired by Coke & New Coke.

Anyway, here's the URL for Hollon Safe: Home - Hollon Their distribution network was somewhat limited back then but a locksmith about 15 miles away (in eastern MA) carried them and there was no issue scheduling a delivery.
Mind sharing which locksmith? Might be moving to a new house that could fit a new safe, and after looking at amsec and liberty, seems Hollon delivers the most for the least.
 
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