School me on 1911's

[Dmn0166]

I'd like to eventually get a 1911 that I can carry in the colder months when I have heavier clothing.

I haven't decided whether I'm better off buying or building. I'm guessing building since I am very particular on what I'm looking for.

I don't think I'll have an issue with the slide and barrel since I can find the typical 4" barrel almost anywhere. Most of my concern is the customization of the frame.

Regarding the frame:
I am very partial to the bobbed frame style I see on the Dan Wesson 1911's. It would also be a huge plus to me if the frame had a rail for a flashlight for home defense. On top of that, are there any frames that don't use a thumb safety?
Do these grips come in different lengths? I don't want a super short grip but I feel a full size grip will be too big.

With that given criteria, will I have any luck finding what I'm looking for?

Any info about the grips or where I should look would be great.

Derek

 

[seanc]

I would ask remsport to put one together for you.
IMO you will always pay a lot more if you start from ground zero and buy every single part needed to complete the finished product. Not only that but most off the shelf parts will require "some" fitting..Unless you really know what you're doing and have all of the necessary tools and knowledge it might be a fool's errand.

 

[Sir_Macadoo]

well, there are many 1911 options out there by many, many manufacturers these days. Many different sizes, configurations, and calibers.

You can get scaled down 1911s (and in different calibers - e.g. 9mm 380) by Star, Ballester and LLama for relatively cheap - good for carry guns, IMO. They are generally OK quality and can be made into great, reliable guns - though I dont recall seeing bobtails made by these guys. Bobtailing can be done at home, or by a smith. Many high end manufacturers sell bobtail models - Dan Wesson, Wilson, Les Baer, Ed Brown, Nighthawk, STI etc. Probably run you over $1000 - prolly coser to $2000+ YMMV

If you want to go the build your own route - Remsport, who posts here frequently and is in Mass, can build it for you or sell you all the parts you need for assembly.

If your driver to build your own is price, forget it. If your driver to build is to enjoy the project, learn something along the way, and make a gun tailored to you - then build. If you don't want the hassel, or the cost or the tools, then buy one from one of the reputable commercial manufacturers, or one from Remsport and the like. Good luck.

Grips in different lengths - well officer models are small, but I would recommend a commander frame with an officer slide. I have one, feels good in the hand, you get 7-8 rounds, and a nice short slide easy to conceal/carry. This configuration, I think, will require a custom gun or build your own. I built mine from Remsport and misc parts.

 

[TheRoland]

I'd like to eventually get a 1911 that I can carry in the colder months when I have heavier clothing.

I haven't decided whether I'm better off buying or building. I'm guessing building since I am very particular on what I'm looking for.

A major consideration buying vs building is the different internal firing pin blocks that you get. Built 1911s tend to be Series 70 (no block) or Series 80 (trigger actuated block = not as nice trigger). Factory guns, especially in MA (SW cough cough) often have a grip-actuated block. People like and carry all three.

Regarding the frame:

I am very partial to the bobbed frame style I see on the Dan Wesson 1911's. It would also be a huge plus to me if the frame had a rail for a flashlight for home defense.

I think it would be hard to find these from the factory in MA. Your options are probably to build this custom (I think it likely RemSport can provide the frame/mainspring housing) or buy a bobtail mainspring housing and go to town on a factory gun.

On top of that, are there any frames that don't use a thumb safety?

I don't think so, no. Although you could just not fit one, or get one that's permanently disabled. I don't think you should do this, though, as it's pretty critical to the 1911 design (although the story is that JMB didn't want one).

Do these grips come in different lengths? I don't want a super short grip but I feel a full size grip will be too big.

Yes. You can get an "Officer's" sized frame, with the 4" Commander's slide. In MA, this means custom build, a Para, or hunting to find the one SW in this style.

With that given criteria, will I have any luck finding what I'm looking for?

Sounds like you might be happier with a custom build.

 

[IPSC_DRL]

I don't think so, no. Although you could just not fit one, or get one that's permanently disabled. I don't think you should do this, though, as it's pretty critical to the 1911 design (although the story is that JMB didn't want one).

I'm pretty sure you are thinking of the GRIP safety.

Sounds like an interesting project. If it were me, I'd go see RemSport.

 

[TheRoland]

I'm pretty sure you are thinking of the GRIP safety.

Sounds like an interesting project. If it were me, I'd go see RemSport.

Nope; You could use a pin in place of the thumb safety's pin to retain the grip safety, and come up with a mechanism to cover the hammer and sear pins. Or you could simply file down the "doohicky" that blocks the sear. Tada, disabled thumb safety. Not recommended.

And the story goes that the original 1911 design didn't have one. Not sure if that's true.

I guessed that the OP was coming from Glocks and Sigs and the like, and was unused to having to actuate a manual safety.

 

[Dmn0166]

I used to own a Ruger p345 that had a thumb safety. But I never carried the Ruger so I never practiced disabling the safety during draw.

I know many people carry a 1911 "cocked and locked".I feel like I would prefer to carry it unlocked and uncocked. I'd prefer the DA pull before switching to the SA pull in terms of self defense. Although I noticed the Smith and Wesson SW1911 compact ES I was looking at mentions its a Single Action only?

It appears as if the Compact ES is the size 1911 I'd be looking for. I just don't like how its two tone. Any other recommendations of 1911's that are similar size to this one?

I guess training would eliminate it, but I feel like remembering to switch off the safety is just an extra step.

 

[Sir_Macadoo]

True 1911s are SAO. Para makes the LDA which may be more to your liking.

Cocked and unlocked is a NO NO on a SAO gun. You will be putting in for a hip replacement (or worse) before you know it.

There are double action variants out there, like Para, but then again that aint exactly a 1911.

 

[Dmn0166]

True 1911s are SAO. Para makes the LDA which may be more to your liking.

Cocked and unlocked is a NO NO on a SAO gun. You will be putting in for a hip replacement (or worse) before you know it.

There are double action variants out there, like Para, but then again that aint exactly a 1911.

I just started reading about this.

I wouldn't carry cocked and unlocked, I'm not too sure why I assumed 1911's were da/sa.

As for the Para's, If I'm spending money on a 1911 I feel like I want the old fashioned tried and true
setup so I'm putting those on the back burner. Also, aren't the para's a double stack
model? I like the thin frame of the original 1911.

 

[M1911]

.I feel like I would prefer to carry it unlocked and uncocked.

Not recommended.

I'd prefer the DA pull before switching to the SA pull in terms of self defense. Although I noticed the Smith and Wesson SW1911 compact ES I was looking at mentions its a Single Action only?

All 1911s are single action only. There is no DA pull. If the gun is decocked, pulling the trigger does nothing.

I guess training would eliminate it, but I feel like remembering to switch off the safety is just an extra step.

The advantage of a single action or striker-fired gun is that you only have to learn one trigger pull. With a DA/SA semi-auto, you have to learn the transition from the heavy, long DA first trigger pull, to the light, short, SA follow up shots.

IMHO, the amount of time required to learn how to operate the safety is less than the amount of time to become proficient with DA/SA.

 

[M1911]

As for the Para's, If I'm spending money on a 1911 I feel like I want the old fashioned tried and true
setup so I'm putting those on the back burner. Also, aren't the para's a double stack
model? I like the thin frame of the original 1911.

Para has single and double stack models. I have a Para P14-45 -- an early double stack gun. It is not a quality gun.

 

[Dmn0166]

IMHO, the amount of time required to learn how to operate the safety is less than the amount of time to become proficient with DA/SA.

Good point

 

[seanc]

Kind of sounds like you should be looking at a single stack para, or maybe even one of the old colt dao 1911-ish (was it the double eagle?) guns..

 

[Scrivener]

Many high end manufacturers sell bobtail models - Dan Wesson, Wilson, Les Baer, Ed Brown, Nighthawk, STI etc. Probably run you over $1000 - prolly [sic] coser to $2000+ YMMV

Not ONE of the guns listed above is on the MA AFR, meaning acquisition of one would have to be used, in a private sale.

SVI IS on both the AFR and the TR, but not in a bobtail configuration.

 

[seanc]

If you want to stay with a real (SOA) 1911. I think your best bet will be to find a decent used 1911 and have a smith make it into what you want. If you can find one. Norinco made a great gun for a build up.

 

[Dmn0166]

If you want to stay with a real (SOA) 1911. I think your best bet will be to find a decent used 1911 and have a smith make it into what you want. If you can find one. Norinco made a great gun for a build up.

I'm starting to think thats my best route.

I would love to build one from scratch, but the more I'm starting to find thats almost doubling my cost.

Before I knew much about these I figured I was asking too much out of a 1911, but I feel a basic officers
sized model will suffice and then I'll get some customization done at a smith.

 

[TheRoland]

I'm starting to think thats my best route.

I would love to build one from scratch, but the more I'm starting to find thats almost doubling my cost.

Before I knew much about these I figured I was asking too much out of a 1911, but I feel a basic officers
sized model will suffice and then I'll get some customization done at a smith.

Getting an officer's sized is not super easy here in MA, either.

 

[Dmn0166]

I was just about to edit my post to mention i meant officer sized grip with commander sized slide.

I'll guess that's even harder?

 

[blitzpackage]

The type of 1911 you are interested in is called a CCO, Concealed Carry Officers model originally built by Colt. S+W has one, the ES as you mentioned. Sig has the C3 and RCS. Dan Wesson has a CCO. Les Baer has the Stinger. All of these are "true" CCOs which means a 4.25 inch barrel on an officers frame. Others like Kimber and Wilson have a similar version with 4 inch barrels.

 

[Dmn0166]

The type of 1911 you are interested in is called a CCO, Concealed Carry Officers model originally built by Colt. S+W has one, the ES as you mentioned. Sig has the C3 and RCS. Dan Wesson has a CCO. Les Baer has the Stinger. All of these are "true" CCOs which means a 4.25 inch barrel on an officers frame. Others like Kimber and Wilson have a similar version with 4 inch barrels.

Very helpful. Thank you!

The Smith 1911 es has my eye for the most part. Is it MA complaint? I'd like to buy my 1911 new.
I plan to keep it forever, so I'd like it to be mine and mine alone.

 

[M1911]

The Smith 1911 es has my eye for the most part. Is it MA complaint? I'd like to buy my 1911 new.
I plan to keep it forever, so I'd like it to be mine and mine alone.

I bought my best 1911 used. It's a Wilson Combat. My used Delta Elite is a pretty fine gun as well.