School me on safes!

[wolfenkraft]

Hey everyone,

Now that I've moved out of a condo and into a single family house, I'm thinking of upgrading my cabinet to a real safe. I know that some are really shitty, but only the $5k+ ones can actually withstand more than 10 minutes or so of a determined, well-tooled person to break into them.

I think I want to install it in my garage and bolt it to the floor there. I don't have that many guns, yet, but I've got a couple handguns and 5 rifles. Is there anything good/worth owning for <$1k delivered? I can install myself, I assume that's just drilling into the garage floor (I'm pretty sure it's concrete, but I'm still house-dumb).

Any opinions/advice would be great.

 

[Chet0729]

Hey everyone,

Now that I've moved out of a condo and into a single family house, I'm thinking of upgrading my cabinet to a real safe. I know that some are really shitty, but only the $5k+ ones can actually withstand more than 10 minutes or so of a determined, well-tooled person to break into them.

I think I want to install it in my garage and bolt it to the floor there. I don't have that many guns, yet, but I've got a couple handguns and 5 rifles. Is there anything good/worth owning for <$1k delivered? I can install myself, I assume that's just drilling into the garage floor (I'm pretty sure it's concrete, but I'm still house-dumb).

Any opinions/advice would be great.

What is "good" is subjective. Safes are like anything else, you get what you pay for. A thief with the right tools will get into anything. The more expensive safes have better locking mechanisms and thicker doors and wall. Usually the more expensive ones have a much longer fire rating as well.
I would be cautions about putting it in the garage as they tend to have wide temperature swings and are not as well ventilated as normal living spaces so moisture can quickly become an issue.

All that being said, I bought one of the Winchesters from Tractor Supply on sale. It is going to keep the crack head hit and run house breaker out and it is very full with guns and ammo so it would be quite a task for someone to move it.
A real good strategy is also to hide it so it is not in plain sight and to build an enclosure for it.

 

[rep308]

Eastern Security Safes in Mendon MA, not too far from Natick. Don't even thing about moving it yourself unless you have done this before or enjoy hospital stays. They have a wide range of choices, I have a couple of them. Prep the area before install so can bolt it down.

 

[wolfenkraft]

What is "good" is subjective. Safes are like anything else, you get what you pay for. A thief with the right tools will get into anything. The more expensive safes have better locking mechanisms and thicker doors and wall. Usually the more expensive ones have a much longer fire rating as well.
I would be cautions about putting it in the garage as they tend to have wide temperature swings and are not as well ventilated as normal living spaces so moisture can quickly become an issue.

All that being said, I bought one of the Winchesters from Tractor Supply on sale. It is going to keep the crack head hit and run house breaker out and it is very full with guns and ammo so it would be quite a task for someone to move it.
A real good strategy is also to hide it so it is not in plain sight and to build an enclosure for it.

Thanks for the advice about the garage... I don't have a basement in the new house, it's slab. I do have a utility room in my garage that has the water heater and first floor heating and cooling system, but I don't think it has room for a safe in it, it's more a closet than a room.

I do have a shed built into the side of the house (have to enter from the outside of the house), but that's only 2ft wide, so I don't know how big of a safe I could get into it, and how I'd even use the safe. Also not sure if I want to carry the guns around in view to get into the safe from the house.

 

[PaulR]

Search this site. Lots of good info. It boils down to:

Winchester Safe from Tractor Supply: Good enough standard Safe for most of us.

Eastern Security Really Real Safe: For the guys with real collections.

Garage=Moisture. You can research that here too.

 

[Enzo]

IMO, this is a good primer on safes! The owner is a little quirky but seems to really know a lot about safes.
Eastern Safe and Security is a mecca of quality safes. http://www.easternsecuritysafe.com/index.html

 

[76Too]

check craigslist...might find a Gem for short money like i did. I got a 22 gun Cabelas for $800.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

but only the $5k+ ones can actually withstand more than 10 minutes or so of a determined, well-tooled person to break into them.

"Gun Safes" are good to stop the casual B&E artist who wants to be in and out quickly, but all of them can be breeched. A TL30 rated safe will cost more than $5000, and is actually rated to withstand 30 minutes of attach with tools one person can carry, not including a torch. TRTL30 includes torch attach. Even that vault in London was not sufficient to stop motivated attackers.

My point is that you will not get a safe that would, for example, be accepted by a jeweler's insurance company as providing adequate protection, but you will get at least a 9, and probably two 9's, of protection from house burgulars with a consumer grade gun safe (One nine means stopping 90%, two nines 99%, etc.).

Pay more attention to burgularly than fire protection. The special "firearms limit" on homeowners policy is generally for loss by theft or mysterious disappearance, with no such limit on loss by fire.

Be cautious about electronic locks. They are convenient, but you're screwed if they fail.

Pay less attention to the front door than the side door. What matters is the thickness of the steel. Typical gun safes at 10 gauge, with some better ones 3/16" or 1/4".

 

[Len-2A Training]

I don't like garages for this purpose for multiple reasons:

- Wild temp/humidity swings aren't good for firearms in a "closed box" (safe). If the garage is heated, this is somewhat lessened (but high temps and humidity is still a major issue).
- More importantly to me is the lack of security. More below.

If you have an alarm system, chances are that your garage isn't alarmed as sometimes it can be multiple minutes before you'll exit the garage or enter the house to enable/disable your system, leading to many false alarms that PDs don't like and can cost you (many towns fine you for false alarms).

Someone could break into the garage (most have external doors/windows or those mickey-mouse keypads), drive a pickup truck in, close the garage door and put a chain around the safe, yank it out and put it on the pickup to drive away with it. Nobody will the wiser until it's gone.

I suggest that you find someplace inside the house to put the safe, out of sight. Add an alarm system and nobody is going to stick around long enough to pry it open in the house. Climate control issues also are mitigated with a simple golden rod.

 

[wolfenkraft]

I don't like garages for this purpose for multiple reasons:

- Wild temp/humidity swings aren't good for firearms in a "closed box" (safe). If the garage is heated, this is somewhat lessened (but high temps and humidity is still a major issue).
- More importantly to me is the lack of security. More below.

If you have an alarm system, chances are that your garage isn't alarmed as sometimes it can be multiple minutes before you'll exit the garage or enter the house to enable/disable your system, leading to many false alarms that PDs don't like and can cost you (many towns fine you for false alarms).

Someone could break into the garage (most have external doors/windows or those mickey-mouse keypads), drive a pickup truck in, close the garage door and put a chain around the safe, yank it out and put it on the pickup to drive away with it. Nobody will the wiser until it's gone.

I suggest that you find someplace inside the house to put the safe, out of sight. Add an alarm system and nobody is going to stick around long enough to pry it open in the house. Climate control issues also are mitigated with a simple golden rod.

Unfortunately I can't think of a place in the house, there's no basement (it's slab). I've got a detached shed in the backyard (no way to lock the doors right now) and a shed built into the side of the house, it's 2ft wide and runs the depth of the house. It's got a locking door on it, but it's narrow enough that I have doubts I'll be able to get a safe into it, and it's also only accessible from the outside of the house, so it means having to carry the firearms outside of the house.

 

[MRE]

Consider that there are ways to improve the security of your safe without buying a more expensive safe.

All safes have thinner walls than doors. Often on the less expensive safes, the tools found in a typical basement workshop can be used to cut open the sides. The doors are much thicker and more difficult to get through.

If you install your safe inside a small closet or build walls around it like a built in refrigerator, you restrict access to the sides and back. If you install the safe with the side that the door opens against a long wall, you prevent the use of big prybars on the door.

Make sure you bolt the safe down if it weighs less than about 1000lbs. Its amazing what a couple guys and a good hand truck can move.

 

[Kevin_NH]

Thanks for the advice about the garage... I don't have a basement in the new house, it's slab. I do have a utility room in my garage that has the water heater and first floor heating and cooling system, but I don't think it has room for a safe in it, it's more a closet than a room.

Since you mention you currently have 5 long guns and perhaps a few handguns, this may be an exception to the rule that you always buy twice as much safe as you need today.

I'd look closely at under-utilized space in the house, then see if there is a "safe" or Residential Security Cabinet (RSC) on the market that fits into the space you have to work with.

 

[jujutsuka]

Sounds like you don't have a place lined up for it but I got this one a few weeks ago from Dick's. Solid safe, 500lbs empty, and plenty for the average to mid-level gun owner. It's currently $150 off but, if you use the code "MAYTWENTY", you'll get another $20 off.
http://www.dickssportinggoods.com/product/index.jsp?productId=13092083&prodFindSrc=cart

 

[Chet0729]

Since you mention you currently have 5 long guns and perhaps a few handguns, this may be an exception to the rule that you always buy twice as much safe as you need today.

Great advise. When I bought my safe I never thought i would fill it and that was only a couple years ago. I need another one now

 

[Fixxah]

Bedroom.

 

[DW357]

Sounds like you don't have a place lined up for it but I got this one a few weeks ago from Dick's. Solid safe, 500lbs empty, and plenty for the average to mid-level gun owner. It's currently $150 off but, if you use the code "MAYTWENTY", you'll get another $20 off.
http://www.dickssportinggoods.com/product/index.jsp?productId=13092083&prodFindSrc=cart

I got the same safe a couple summers ago when it was on sale for $699, great safe! Although I need to consider buying another one as this one nearing capacity.

 

[Freddy B]

Hey everyone,

Now that I've moved out of a condo and into a single family house, I'm thinking of upgrading my cabinet to a real safe. I know that some are really shitty, but only the $5k+ ones can actually withstand more than 10 minutes or so of a determined, well-tooled person to break into them.

I think I want to install it in my garage and bolt it to the floor there. I don't have that many guns, yet, but I've got a couple handguns and 5 rifles. Is there anything good/worth owning for <$1k delivered? I can install myself, I assume that's just drilling into the garage floor (I'm pretty sure it's concrete, but I'm still house-dumb).

Any opinions/advice would be great.

I had an AMSEC TF5517 installed by Boston Lock and Safe for under $1,000, and am happy with it. They will bolt it to the floor for you. Good luck.

 

[J.A.C]

I've heard good things about Liberty Safes

http://www.libertysafe.com/products-liberty-safes-pt-1.html

 

[Parker Duofold]

Lots of threads on "gun safe" on NES.

Here's one recent one: http://www.northeastshooters.com/vbulletin/threads/277765-Gun-Safe-Retailer?highlight=gun+safe

 

[wolfenkraft]

Thanks everyone!

 

[johnnymac101]

Would a safe dehumidifier rod combat the air conditions enough if a safe was placed in a highly humid location?
I'm thinking about my basement, I already have a dehumidifier machine running during the summer.

 

[DW357]

Would a safe dehumidifier rod combat the air conditions enough if a safe was placed in a highly humid location?
I'm thinking about my basement, I already have a dehumidifier machine running during the summer.

I use the rechargeable dehumidifiers inside my safe which work great but if it's really humid in your basement, it's only a matter of time before they fill up with moisture and you have to charge/dry them out again. But I don't have any experience with the goldenrod/dehumidifier rods in safes. You should be fine if you're running a dehumidifier in the basement which is what I do. I try to keep it at 55% so it's not running constantly.

 

[CJMAC]

I've been looking at snap safe. They come in pieces and you bolt together where you want it.
Looks as good as anything else but you don't need help moving it from place to place. Got a place lined up for it in my walk-in closet as soon as I get the cash.

 

[Marine-daughter]

Thanks, Enzo for the informative post/video share! Appreciate it!

 

[SeanT]

Rather than a garage or shed, maybe find some unused space in the house for it. If you don't have a spare closet, maybe put it in plain sight and build a cabinet around it.

 

[wolfenkraft]

Rather than a garage or shed, maybe find some unused space in the house for it. If you don't have a spare closet, maybe put it in plain sight and build a cabinet around it.

That's optimistic and definitely over estimating how much my wife will tolerate.

 

[AllaSnackbah]

if you have any power/air tools in your garage, lock them in the safe with your guns, so they can't be used to break in.

 

[7.62x39]

Unfortunately I can't think of a place in the house, there's no basement (it's slab)

Put it in your wife's side of the closet. If she complains, tell her to shut up and go make you a sammich.

 

[Parker Duofold]

if you have any power/air tools in your garage, lock them in the safe with your guns, so they can't be used to break in.

You have extra room in your safe?

 

[anon2424]

Want to throw my own two cents in about electronic safes, I picked up a really small cheap safe from Collectibles in NH (it was 50% off!!). It has a manual override involving a key if the batteries run out but as rob mentioned on the first page, you don't want a handicap in an emergency. I've made it a thing to check battery levels whenever I access it now (literally the first thing you see when you enter in the code) so I guess it's not that bad as long as you stay on top of things.