Scumbag Factor at Gun Shows

particularly when I know that table space was limited and others with gun related items to sell were unable to purchase tables.
The problem is that this is not always true. While they didn't make the room smaller with portable partitions, the table density was rather low on the left side of the building and they could have easily fit in at least a half-dozen more tables. So, allowing such tables is a revenue optimizing strategy for the promoter - more revenue and a "fuller" show floor.

These shows are a private business and decisions are made based on the financial interests of the promoters. Unless the presence of such stuff significantly reduces attendance, we can look forward to seeing it at every show.

Someone must buy the jerky, since they are back at every show.
 
Someone must buy the jerky, since they are back at every show.

Hey, that's my lunch at most gun shows!! [smile]

I've also bought the hot sauces from the guy that's at the gun shows.

I see no problem with the bullet jewelry either . . . something for the ladies who attend the shows or for the guys to buy for their ladies . . . and it's gun-related.

I see no place for beanie babies (apparently done at shows in free states), selling glassine envelopes (I was looking for the drug dealer at the Big E after seeing this vendor some years ago), other assorted junk not at all related to guns/knives (it's billed as a "gun and knife show"). YMMV
 
while i can understand the historical importance of selling WW2 memorabilia, when i see tables that sell Ku Klux Klan bullshit i cant get away from it fast enough. talk about white trash.
there was a few of those in concord and a few this past weekend in MA.
 
while i can understand the historical importance of selling WW2 memorabilia, when i see tables that sell Ku Klux Klan bullshit i cant get away from it fast enough. talk about white trash.
there was a few of those in concord and a few this past weekend in MA.

+1, and of the stuff that was obviously captured/made trophies of by our GI's back in WWII doesn't really bother me, its the new pins and shit like that. Personally even if I saw a good deal on something else and the seller had that out I wouldn't buy from them. I'm glad I only saw a table or two with that crap.
 
+1, and of the stuff that was obviously captured/made trophies of by our GI's back in WWII doesn't really bother me, its the new pins and shit like that.

That's what I am talking about, shiny new pins and stickers right next to the "Join the NRA" stuff is not cool and has no historical significance. Just looks stupid.
 
"while i can understand the historical importance of selling WW2 memorabilia, when i see tables that sell Ku Klux Klan bullshit i cant get away from it fast enough. talk about white trash.
there was a few of those in concord and a few this past weekend in MA."

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I agree totally. Selling true historical material/artifacts is one thing, but there are inevitably some recently released parolees manning a table full of nothing but KKK/Neo-nazi propaganda that should be booted right out the door. I'm reluctant to bring my Asian girlfriend to a gun show for fear she'd get the wrong idea about me thanks to those shitheads. She's got nothing for or against guns but recently expressed some curiosity about going to one. But the last thing I want is to spend the afternoon trying to explain the retard table to her.

Any other public show at the same arena (books, model trains, crafts, whatever) would never allow these idiots to set up a table; I don't see why the gun show organizers are so permissive. If they keep setting them up at Concord I might just stop going - it's the same group of dealers with the same inventory anyway.
 
"while i can understand the historical importance of selling WW2 memorabilia, when i see tables that sell Ku Klux Klan bullshit i cant get away from it fast enough. talk about white trash.
there was a few of those in concord and a few this past weekend in MA."

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I agree totally. Selling true historical material/artifacts is one thing, but there are inevitably some recently released parolees manning a table full of nothing but KKK/Neo-nazi propaganda that should be booted right out the door. I'm reluctant to bring my Asian girlfriend to a gun show for fear she'd get the wrong idea about me thanks to those shitheads. She's got nothing for or against guns but recently expressed some curiosity about going to one. But the last thing I want is to spend the afternoon trying to explain the retard table to her.

Gil, I hear you and I agree. What I would do is bring her anyway and tell her before you go in that there are a fair amount of scumbags at gun shows and that gun shows are not representative the majority of gun owners. Explain that you go there, look for a deal and go home. Tell her, if she is interested in shooting, guns (or just you), that you will take her to an NES member shoot, or an event at your local gun club, or even a great retail place like Four Seasons where you can introduce her to Carl who comes across immediately as a stand up guy.

Here's a good analogy. If you live in the city and you really like food, chances are you're going to find yourself venturing into not so nice neighborhoods form time to time just to get an amazing meal at an out of the way hole in the wall. When you're done, you don't go strolling the streets in the neighborhood, you get in your car/train and go home. Same with gun shows, when you want to relax around guns you go to Four Seasons, or your local gun club not a gun show. Gun shows are in and out, get what you need.
 
That's what I am talking about, shiny new pins and stickers right next to the "Join the NRA" stuff is not cool and has no historical significance. Just looks stupid.


Was this guy the vendor?

nickthenazi.jpg
 
Here's a good analogy. If you live in the city and you really like food, chances are you're going to find yourself venturing into not so nice neighborhoods form time to time just to get an amazing meal at an out of the way hole in the wall. When you're done, you don't go strolling the streets in the neighborhood, you get in your car/train and go home. Same with gun shows, when you want to relax around guns you go to Four Seasons, or your local gun club not a gun show. Gun shows are in and out, get what you need.

While it's true I can't change the bad neighborhood where the restaurant is, If the neigborhood is that bad, the restaurant will eventually move or go out of business. A gun show is not the same animal. The organizers rent tables gun dealers and a very small minority of vendors who specialize not in guns, but crap. Nevertheless, the nazi/Klan merchants obviously attract a lot of undesirable attention. The positives don't outweigh the negatives. THEY should be the ones to move.

Put yourself in the shoes of a first time gun show attendee: when they visit, in addition to the military/gun related stuff they will inevitably see plenty of political material, usually NRA-related, as well as nazi & Klan crap. They will walk out with a lot of memories which will inevitably and simplistically be linked together:

Guns + NRA + Nazi propaganda = people I don't think I want to know.

Can we really afford that image?

Whenever they have a show for anything else at the Concord arena, no matter how unusual (they just had one for antique books the other day), I never have to even think that some group of idiots will set up a table full of nazi/Klan crap. It just doesn't happen. I can bring my girlfriend literally anywhere in town without even thinking of that, EXCEPT a gun show, and that really pisses me off.

A gun show isn't obligated to host this stuff - especially since those vendors often don't even deal with guns. We shouldn't get caught up in the "it's a free country" approach as if we're all obligated to tolerate this distraction at a privately run event that's supposed to attract the general public. We gun owners have enough to worry about without the distraction of a few retards ruining our public image.
 
Really??? You mean I could have just pulled out my C&R instead of paying $20 for me and Shortey to get in???

Old thread...

My reply was in reference to gaining admission into "Shot Show".

Although IIRC, someone posted in another thread that a having a C&R license is no longer acceptable for admission.
 
Gil I think we're talking about two different things. With regard to your comments about gun shows, I agree. I would much prefer not to see that Nazi crap there and while I'm not going to go throwing punches over some looser in Nazi garb, let's just say I'm not going to swerve to avoid them either "on a dark road.".

I don't know why they allow that crap but I guess it's not up to me, but rather it's up to the market to decide what it wants.

If the neigborhood is that bad, the restaurant will eventually move or go out of business.

Actually that's just not true. You're making the assumption that a good restaurant will be a fancy restaurant. I grew up and lived most of my life in the center of Boston, and there are plenty of restaurants that were in bad neighborhoods for decades. Not as many now since the city Gentrified in the mid 80s, but the idea that good restaurants in bad places automatically close is incorrect. Examples...Bob the Chef's, which used to be Soul Kitchen in the South End back in the 70's and 80's. Tell me you can get "glorified chicken" anywhere north of MD that beats it. What about Santarpio's in East Boston which has argueably the best pizza in the city? Again, gentrification hit Eastie hard but it didn't used to be a "safe" area in the 70s and 80s.

I could go on for a while but I think we agree on the central theme which is that Nazis (Illinois or otherwise) suck. Unfortunately, freedom means the freedom to be an a**h*** sometimes.
 
When I see an NVA flag, I get pissed so quickly and completely, that I can't imagine how someone who fought the Nazi's or the Japanese can walk past a table of their stuff without setting it on fire. I don't want to just destroy the flag, I want to destroy the person who relates to it.

I have a few Nazi items myself. Stuff my Father and Uncles brought back from the war. It's a reminder we won, and that they suck. They mean something to me. On the other hand, those vendors who make a living at it are pretty sick. They are in love with Nazi's and their trappings. It's a strange dichotomy.

At the same time, If I were a Jew, I think I'd be trying to knock a few of those memorabilia asshats up a few flights of stairs myself.
 
Gil raises a good point, so I'll make a suggestion.

- The NH shows are run by Pat DiPrete and the MA shows are run by Carole. Politely seek them out at the show, pull them aside for a private conversation and point out that it's probably in nobody's best interest to allow KKK stuff on the tables and only Nazi stuff that represents true collectibles.

- Pointing out that a news reporter going to a show undercover could do a number on the promoter, gun owners and gun dealers by writing a scathing piece on those types of items and drawing the unfavorable references.

Who knows, it might work and can't hurt to try (as long as you are polite and point out the DIS-Advantages to them on having this for sale).

If this had been posted prior to Saturday, I would have said something to Carole at the show after seeing the KKK stuff.
 
FWIW, I saw a few Asians at the show and at least one black person. I'm sure there are a few Jews who attend the show also.

I always wonder what they think of the Nazi and Klan crap but I'm glad to see them exercising their 2A rights, regardless of the idiots who sell that stuff.

As for some of the Nazi stuff being authentic vs. new, to me that doesn't matter. It still represents the same thing.
 
Although I wouldnt buy any of the stuff at a show (nazi) since I dont know who I am supporting, I do intend on buying some nazi era coins. I have a coin collection that I want to pass down as more of a historical document to my kids than as an investment. Iraqui Saddam Dinar, older silver coinage, "old" style paper money. To me having something to handle brings back the memories and brings a better discussion about historical events.
WW2s lessons should never be forgotten, so I will own something, including a carbine and hopefully a garand. As for the new and repro nazi stuff, screw that, supporting a hate organization. I do not understand the KKK and repro nazi stuff.
As for the NVA stuff, I never thought about people collecting it, but I still vividly remember my Uncles SKS hanging over his threshold in his living room that he brought back from Vietnam. No clue as a kid how he got it back but remember he had a tough time over there that he didnt talk about. As peoples memories fade, and younger people do not remember the lessons of Vietnam, tangible reminders are sometimes needed in my opinion to make sure people dont repeat the mistakes of the past.


I also agree that a new person to the shows may link the Nazi crap to the regular gun buyer and think that they are a bunch of loonies.
 
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Depicts, I certainly hear you. In fact, I've thought myself from time to time that it must be unbelieveably difficult for Vietnam Vets to see some of the war surplus. I can only imagine and I will always be in awe of the average vet's self control.

Now, as a Jew, I get so angry that I ocasionally think bad thoughts...I won't go further here.

But there is one thought that triumphs over all the others.

I'm willing to bet you 100 of Fred's best guns (J/K Fred!) that Len, Ross and some of the others of Jewish Heritage have this exact thought.

You're walking through a show and you see some Ass Muppet in full Nazi regalia strutting around and immediately you just want to pummel the no talent ass clown into the ground. Then you think quietly about your sidearm and about the scads of rifles and the cases of ammo in your basement and you smile and think to yourself.

"never again."

No, not the stupid liberal statement about how we've "moved past that time." No.

Never again- because I am a the Jew who will not wait for the boxcars to arrive.

Never again- because I am the Jew that will not go quietly into the night.

Never again- because I am the Jew who's looking to shoot first.

Never again- because my innsurance policy is #5.56-7.62-.45

Never again because I say so.
 
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Since I didn't go to the show I didn't see the Nazi/KKK stuff on the NRA, but if some of you did would you contact the local or even national NRA Headquarters to let them know what type of stuff is being placed in the Join the NRA table. If anyone has pictures that would even be better.
 
Since I didn't go to the show I didn't see the Nazi/KKK stuff on the NRA, but if some of you did would you contact the local or even national NRA Headquarters to let them know what type of stuff is being placed in the Join the NRA table. If anyone has pictures that would even be better.

There is NO NRA table at the gun shows in MA. Last time I saw an official NRA table was >10 years ago.

Since NRA offers a "commission" for sign-ups, individuals and some businesses hook in and offer to sign people up and hand out/sell NRA stuff. But NRA does not control this in any way . . . other than they could deny someone that status if they chose to.

Yes I'm Jewish and most of our Family (cousins, etc. who never came to US before the Wars) were incinerated by the Nazis.

As a kid, one of our family friends had a captured Nazi flag in his basement. His kids pulled it out and I remember each of us taking turns bayoneting the flag mercilessly!

On the other hand, I now own a German Army dress dagger, dress bayonet and Luger that my late Father liberated from a captured German Army Major at the end of the War, just outside Berlin.

I have talked with a few legit dealers of Nazi memorabilia at the gun shows about the related items that I own.

I don't have any place for the guy dressing in Nazi uniform or the KKK stuff at all, but I just walk away when I spot it. My Wife on the other hand, has gone ballistic a few times over seeing that stuff at the shows.
 
I am not even close to a uniform expert, but if the guys everyone is talking about are the ones at Springfield, I don't recall seeing any Nazi insignia on any of them. The uniforms actually appeared to be regular army, maybe even World War I.

Anyone else?
 
There is NO NRA table at the gun shows in MA. Last time I saw an official NRA table was >10 years ago.

I saw what sure looked like a NRA table. It wasn't manned but it was covered with applications, pamphlets and stuff. There may have even been a banner over it.
 
I saw what sure looked like a NRA table. It wasn't manned but it was covered with applications, pamphlets and stuff. There may have even been a banner over it.

I was just thinking about this. I don't think I have been to a Marlboro show yet that didn't have an NRA table against the back wall.
 
As a collector of military items, in some ways I agree with you all, and then I don't to be short on that sentence.

I must say that this is the second one this year that I have stopped, told a few vendors that some of the inert ordnance items they have displayed are not true "INERT". I also stopped at one table this past weekend and was talking to the old man, he looked at me in a nasty way. As I was talking to him about items he had out, he was surprised that I was pointing out the names of the items, the country from which it was first used and so on. He once again spoke and this time with the words "you know your shit, I am surprised, here is my card which I do not hand out much".

As for the KKK stuff, I walk right past the table. There might be another item I would buy, but since they are displaying that out, off I go. They should really have that out of view, if someone is looking for it, they can ask the vendor.

And here I go now into the "NAZI" subject.. When I am at a show, I will ask when looking at German gun's if the "Chicken Mark" is on the gun. I have respect for others that are around me and will not use the word NAZI.

I am a huge military collector as some of you know, my items in my collection including firearms range from CW,WW1, WW2, (both axis and allies) Korea, VN, and so forth. There was a time in my collecting that I had items displayed in glass cases, that was up to the time one of my daughters asked about it. I took the items down, that was the last thing I did not want is her in school and saying to the teacher that "my daddy has that on the walls" after looking at a world history book.

I'll admit that in my living room I have a 1/4 mannequin with a USGI Kevlar helmet and NBC hood and mask on that is atop of my desk. Why? Because I can. (well the wife hates it.. but)
 
Depicts, I certainly hear you. In fact, I've thought myself from time to time that it must be unbelieveably difficult for Vietnam Vets to see some of the war surplus. I can only imagine and I will always be in awe of the average vet's self control.

Now, as a Jew, I get so angry that I ocasionally think bad thoughts...I won't go further here.

But there is one thought that triumphs over all the others.

I'm willing to bet you 100 of Fred's best guns (J/K Fred!) that Len, Ross and some of the others of Jewish Heritage have this exact thought.



"never again."

No, not the stupid liberal statement about how we've "moved past that time." No.


Never again because I say so.

Uncle Duke, as I've said to you before, my understanding of "Kristallnacht", and "NEVER AGAIN" makes my blood boil. It's not just Ross and Len and you. I feel the same way when I see those slimeballs and skinheads.

You know my policy of trying to avoid saying anything on line that could lead to prosecution or loss of my LTC. That being said, should the occasion ever present itself, this Goy would be right with you guys!!!
 
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