Self Defense Spray

[blindfire]

Hi all. Question for the brain trust.

My niece who is 16 years old lives in Leominster and has to walk through some less than nice places to get to the local library. Today, a group of boys started yelling some truly nasty / obscene shit at her and she didn't feel safe, so she left the area as quickly as possible.

Her mom is concerned for her safety and asked if "I could weaponize her". Her words.

MGL CH140, S122C states that a person under 18 may possess self defense spray as long as they have an FID card. I pointed her at the form and told her to fill it out.

The question: what are the legal penalties she would face if she used it in a situation where she wasn't in fear of her life or was in fear of physical harm. I just want the mom to know all of the pros and cons of doing this for her daughter.

Thanks

PS - WTF is wrong with boys who think it is ok to yell shit like that at girls? My dad would have beaten the ever living shit out of me if it got back to him that I'd yelled things like that at a girl. JFC, our society is effed.

 

[Choctaw]

Didn't someone see a black bear near Leominster? She could carry bear spray just in case

 

[s&w3913]

What about carrying it on school property if she is going to the library after school?

At the minimum most schools in MA have a zero tolerance policy since the early 90s so at the minimum she is looking at some serious disciplinary action if she gets caught with it at school possible criminal charges.

 

[amm5061]

What about carrying it on school property if she is going to the library after school?

At the minimum most schools in MA have a zero tolerance policy since the early 90s so at the minimum she is looking at some serious disciplinary action if she gets caught with it at school possible criminal charges.

Yeah, I would be worried about that, too. If she's just carrying it from home to the library over the summer then it should be fine, but I don't think she can take it to school.

 

[blindfire]

What about carrying it on school property if she is going to the library after school?

At the minimum most schools in MA have a zero tolerance policy since the early 90s so at the minimum she is looking at some serious disciplinary action if she gets caught with it at school possible criminal charges.

Yeah...I brought that to her attention. The issue was, apparently, that she forgot her house keys and decided to walk to the library to hang out until her mom or sister got home. There is a hide-a-key but mom forgot to put it back the last time she used it. So, it was a basic cluster-f**k of bad habits. Not that she should not be able to walk to the library without getting sexually harassed verbally, but good habits would have avoided this incident yesterday.

 

[cockpitbob]

"I have read" that there's a small chance you could be prosecuted for assault with a weapon if you illegally pepper spray someone. Sorry, I can't cite the source. Considering a few (already unhealthy) people have died from the stress of being sprayed, I can believe in a state like MA that hates self-help, you could get jammed up pretty hard for illegal use of spray.
Hopefully Len will chime in.

From the pepper spray store's MA Laws web page...

There is only one acceptable use for pepper spray, and that is for the self defense of any individual who is being assaulted or threatened by an assailant. It is against the law to spray a person or animal unless your safety or the safety of someone you are with is in jeopardy

Again, no MGL citation, but it makes perfect sense.

 

[amm5061]

"I have read" that there's a small chance you could be prosecuted for assault with a weapon if you illegally pepper spray someone. Sorry, I can't cite the source. Considering a few (already unhealthy) people have died from the stress of being sprayed, I can believe in a state like MA that hates self-help, you could get jammed up pretty hard for illegal use of spray.
Hopefully Len will chime in.

From the pepper spray store's MA Laws web page...


Again, no MGL citation, but it makes perfect sense.

One of the law office pages had it listed as up to 7 years in prison for spraying someone illegally. I can't find a second source to corroborate that, though.

But seriously, repeat after me: "I was in fear for my own safety." If a guy's close enough to spray, he's close enough to cause you some serious harm pretty quickly.

 

[Drix]

Get her the pepper spray, educate her on how to use it, make sure she knows when to use her cell phone to call for help early, because the police are always a few minutes away , and apply for the FID.

Pepper spray isn't to shut obnoxious boys up, but it'll come in handy to grab when things are sketchy and useful if they become worse. I see probably 2-3 new sexual assaults of minors every day at work and that's just one hospital, assaults on minors requiring medical treatment are just as high. Keep your kids out of my office, I don't want to see them.

 

[Caveman]

Mac @ MFS does a pepperspray class. might be worth looking into.

 

[GaryO]

I don't see too many of those Antifa aholes getting in trouble for using it. A good self defense class might come in handy. My daughter was an RA at UVA and she had to sponsor monthly get togethers for the students. She contacted Charlottesville PD and they were more than happy to come to the school and teach self defense to the women students.

 

[Ultrarunner]

No doubt Mass hates self help, but I really don't see a jury being harsh on a 16 year old girl walking by herself that pepper sprays one or more of a group of older larger boys who were verbally harassing her...as in the gun world, concealed means concealed until its not...

 

[PaulR]

Great thread, hopefully we can get some official answers.
I have questions too: Most likely some jackwagon with road rage will approach me while I'm sitting in my vehicle on the road, I really would like to feel threatened enough to spray them.

 

[SKumar]

Teach her about situational awareness too. (i.e. eyes off the damn phone while walking)

 

[GaryO]

Teach her about situational awareness too. (i.e. eyes off the damn phone while walking)

^^^^^^
This might be the most important information in the thread.

 

[blindfire]

Mac @ MFS does a pepperspray class. might be worth looking into.

Not familiar with him or MFS. Is that his NES handle? I'll PM him to see what the details are.

I don't see too many of those Antifa aholes getting in trouble for using it. A good self defense class might come in handy. My daughter was an RA at UVA and she had to sponsor monthly get togethers for the students. She contacted Charlottesville PD and they were more than happy to come to the school and teach self defense to the women students.

Mom has already signed both girls up for Karate, but maybe a targeted self defense class is more appropriate. Will talk to her about that.

No doubt Mass hates self help, but I really don't see a jury being harsh on a 16 year old girl walking by herself that pepper sprays one or more of a group of older larger boys who were verbally harassing her...as in the gun world, concealed means concealed until its not...

Yeah, that was my advice as well...but you know how full retard MA schools go if she gets caught with it for whatever reason. The kid has already shown a propensity for forgetting her keys. This isn't the first time she's done it and god forbid she take it out at school and puts it in her locker and then forgets it. Bad joojoo all around if that happens.

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^^^^^^
This might be the most important information in the thread.

Oh yeah...agree 100%

 

[cockpitbob]

At least with pepper spray you can pull it out and threaten someone that's not (yet) a clear threat to your life. I'm pretty sure there's no such crime as brandishing pepper spray.

 

[Dadstoys]

Even in Ma., I don't think any of the DA's would want to risk total jackhole status trying to prosecute a young girl being accosted by street punks.
The school thing is where it could get sticky.

 

[enbloc]

She might do better with some flash-bangs and a couple CS grenades...

 

[Caveman]

Sorry no Mac is the instructor at Mass Firearms School (MFS) here is a link to the class I cant speak to this class but I've taken 5-6 of Mac's other classes and he's a top notch instructor. great teacher for women.

 

[pastera]

Get them the FID, with that they are insulated from real legal issues - the school can make life miserable but not as much as sexual assault would.

Martial arts class is useless except to give them more confidence and situational awareness.

My daughter just had her orientation at Bryant and asked about pepper spray - response was absolutely no problem to carry (but that's a private school in Rhode island)

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[CCW]

"I have read" that there's a small chance you could be prosecuted for assault with a weapon if you illegally pepper spray someone. Sorry, I can't cite the source. Considering a few (already unhealthy) people have died from the stress of being sprayed, I can believe in a state like MA that hates self-help, you could get jammed up pretty hard for illegal use of spray.
Hopefully Len will chime in.

From the pepper spray store's MA Laws web page...


Again, no MGL citation, but it makes perfect sense.

http://www.metrowestdailynews.com/x905411570/Man-arrested-after-pepper-spray-incident

 

[cockpitbob]

http://www.metrowestdailynews.com/x905411570/Man-arrested-after-pepper-spray-incident

Crap. A & B with a dangerous weapon is felony territory, isn't it?

A 23-year-old shelter resident doused another man with pepper spray yesterday outside the Salvation Army, police said, after reportedly feeling threatened during a dispute.

Joseph Spencer, of 3 Merchant Road, Framingham, was charged with assault and battery with a dangerous weapon and with a miscellaneous firearm violation, since he did not have a license to carry the spray, police said.

 

[Caveman]

that doesnt add up. they got him on a firearms violation? is that the no FID? but thats not required anymore for over 18 in MA? I think they were just trying to make something to grab him with.

 

[In God We Trust]

I would suggest you get her an FID. In the meantime, I would give her a can of OC just in case. I can't think of many cops that would charge her for carrying OC. If she used it in a SD situation, who knows but it's better than getting raped.

 

[Energizer]

http://www.metrowestdailynews.com/x905411570/Man-arrested-after-pepper-spray-incident

Story is from 2010. Was arrested because he likely didn't have a FID - which isn't required for 18+ nowadays.

 

[pastera]

At least with pepper spray you can pull it out and threaten someone that's not (yet) a clear threat to your life. I'm pretty sure there's no such crime as brandishing pepper spray.

Just like a gun, only pull it if you are going to use it, then beat feet out of there to a safe place to call and report you were assaulted

 

[ToddDubya]

Verbal abuse: keep walking and/or run. Physical abuse: whatever it takes to get away: pepper spray, stomp on instep, kick balls, punch throat, gouge eyes, claw face, brick to mouth. And yeah, stop staring at the phone while walking.


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[allen-1]

At least with pepper spray you can pull it out and threaten someone that's not (yet) a clear threat to your life. I'm pretty sure there's no such crime as brandishing pepper spray.

That's a bad idea. I roll up on this young lady, she perceives me as a threat and pulls out her pepper spray and threatens me with it. While she's threatening me with it, I'll take it away from her, probably hurting her in the process. It's like any other weapon, you deploy it as a weapon, not as a threat.

 

[Len-2A Training]

What about carrying it on school property if she is going to the library after school?

At the minimum most schools in MA have a zero tolerance policy since the early 90s so at the minimum she is looking at some serious disciplinary action if she gets caught with it at school possible criminal charges.

It is my "belief' that unless a school specifically allows it, a student caught with it will likely be expelled and perhaps they will also gen up some criminal charges to go with it. BCPD prosecutor has told me a few times that he successfully prosecuted co-eds with it on campus . . . and we weren't talking about mis-use (A&B is A&B regardless of item used as a weapon).

That's a bad idea. I roll up on this young lady, she perceives me as a threat and pulls out her pepper spray and threatens me with it. While she's threatening me with it, I'll take it away from her, probably hurting her in the process. It's like any other weapon, you deploy it as a weapon, not as a threat.

I fully agree. Without articulable facts that would lead a DA, judge or jury to conclude that someone was under threat of severe bodily harm, the OC user could easily be offered a PP status plea bargain or take a chance at a felony conviction in MA.

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Crap. A & B with a dangerous weapon is felony territory, isn't it?

Yes it is and that is the exact and appropriate charge for mis-use of OC, shod foot, knife or a gun.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

Martial arts class is useless except to give them more confidence and situational awareness.

The level of martial arts skill necessary to enable a 120lb female to asswhomp a 200lb male is to say the least "considerable".

BCPD prosecutor has told me a few times that he successfully prosecuted co-eds with it on campus

Len and I have been over this before - he has been unable to define what "successfully prosecuted' means. My guess is it is most likely a CWOF with payment of court costs or some minor penalty rather than a finding of guilt, or anything that would establish an actual precedent. But then, that is just a guess.