Anyone heard anything re. the SIG 250 being under review yet in MA., for the AG's annointing (ah, "approval") process? Or re. the "consumer protection" review of same being underway? What about S&W's M&P .357SIG?
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SIG 250/M&P .357 SIG AG review status?
- Thread starter llama
- Start date
WaldoOneFive
NES Member
The Sig will never be MA compliant, they do not make a version with a 10lb trigger pull.
What about the S&W M&P .357sig?
What about the S&W M&P .357sig?
Rob Boudrie
NES Member
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There is no AG review or approval process. The lists (lab tested or target) are maintained by the Executive office of Public Safety, and have a formal approval process - but are completely separate from the AG consumer protection regulations. The AG only issues anti-approvals after a dealer sells a gun they do not feel complies. There is not way to get an a priori determination that a gun is AG compliant (for example, the AG will not tell a dealer if they consider a loaded chamber indicator to be "effective" except via an enforcement action or threat of enforcement action after a sale has been made. It's sort of like double secret probation.
SIG 250/M&P.357 Sig
So, ... not a good time/place to be giving out awards for 'transparency' in government? Re. the advice about the SIG lacking a 10 lb. trigger pull, it seems that should be an easy thing for them to achieve for the MA market and let buyers convert it back on their own. Sort of like the .40/.357 switch-out...probably not legal, but it 'happens'?![[smile]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/001.gif "Smile [smile]")
...wonder what happens if someone has the bad luck to have the weapon checked after being converted?
So, ... not a good time/place to be giving out awards for 'transparency' in government? Re. the advice about the SIG lacking a 10 lb. trigger pull, it seems that should be an easy thing for them to achieve for the MA market and let buyers convert it back on their own. Sort of like the .40/.357 switch-out...probably not legal, but it 'happens'?
...wonder what happens if someone has the bad luck to have the weapon checked after being converted?
So, ... not a good time/place to be giving out awards for 'transparency' in government? Re. the advice about the SIG lacking a 10 lb. trigger pull, it seems that should be an easy thing for them to achieve for the MA market and let buyers convert it back on their own. Sort of like the .40/.357 switch-out...probably not legal, but it 'happens'?
What? What's not legal about it?
![[thinking]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/010.gif "Thinking [thinking]")
I think you're confused. There is nothing illegal about changing calibers.
Sort of like the .40/.357 switch-out...probably not legal, but it 'happens'?
WTF are you talking about? There is NOTHING illegal about changing calibers of a handgun in MA.
I have resolved not to give out any more negative reps. But at times I get tempted.
WaldoOneFive
NES Member
I thought the PPS has a nasty 10lb trigger? That is why everyone gets work done in it right after they buy it? I did not know this wasnt the case.Learn something new everyday. Ty sir.
In that case, I guess I shouldn't have just said: "doesnt have a 10lb trigger", but:
:Aside from not having a 10lb trigger or other features needed to fulfill the AG's requirements like chamber loaded indicator, etc, that P250 doesnt meet those requirements.
That's not the point. The point is the gun manufacturers make a different version of their hand guns to comply with the MA AG BS. The versions of the PPS, M&P, SR9 and other guns sold in this state are different than those sold in other states. They modify the gun to be sold here.
So, there's no reason Sig couldn't create a MA specific version of the P250 to be sold here.
For the 900th time the P250 is not going to be MA compliant for typical dealer sales. It's not even on the EOPS roster yet, not even the one that just came out. This means Sig has not submitted the handgun for EOPS testing. This has nothing to do with the AG's office, that'd be the 2nd tier of compliance.
As far as the other thing goes, I'd talk to S+W. The M+P is on the roster in that caliber, and they make crippled versions, so theres no reason they can't
make one in .357 sig, either. It's probably just lack of demand or something. That, and the .357 Sig M+P was unobtainium for a long time, (even on the open market) so that might have something to do with it, too.
-Mike
As far as the other thing goes, I'd talk to S+W. The M+P is on the roster in that caliber, and they make crippled versions, so theres no reason they can't
make one in .357 sig, either. It's probably just lack of demand or something. That, and the .357 Sig M+P was unobtainium for a long time, (even on the open market) so that might have something to do with it, too.
-Mike
WaldoOneFive
NES Member
On the M&P topic, are you guys referring to the fullsized M&P in .357 not being MA compliant, because the 357 Compact is MA compliant isnt it?
When I looked at the roster I saw "M&P 357" on it. S+W might not have SKUs for it for neutered versions, though. You'd have to talk to S+W or a
distributor (eg, camfour) though, for the real deal.
-Mike
WaldoOneFive
NES Member
The reason I asked, is because I saw the 357 Compact for sale at NETraders.... If it wasnt MA compliant I thought that would be ironic as hell.
![[rofl]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/013.gif "ROFL [rofl]")
The reason I asked, is because I saw the 357 Compact for sale at NETraders.... If it wasnt MA compliant I thought that would be ironic as hell.
There is no M+P .357c on the roster....
It's vaguely possible, however, that he might be selling it based on the "functional design equivalent" wallhack included in the law. I am not sure if this applies or not in this case. (EG, an argument might be levied that because the .40c is tested, and is very similar outside of the barrel, that the .357c also qualifies. )
-Mike
RB101
NES Member
I purchased an M&P(c) 357 sig from a Mass gun store NIB last year. I can only assume from my purchase dgrant is correct in his assumption above. I know for a fact there was more than one sold.
I saw it for sale and asked no further questions. Liability is on the store, great little piece though...
I saw it for sale and asked no further questions. Liability is on the store, great little piece though...
W
wolf223
A&G guns in Lowell has (or had) the 357c advertised too.
if you are hell bent on getting a 357sig M&P, just get a .40 and buy the equivalent barrel.
if you are hell bent on getting a 357sig M&P, just get a .40 and buy the equivalent barrel.
Interesting, and good to hear one can build up what you want even if the state never specifically approves the resulting gun... Just coming into MA, and trying to figure out the do's and don'ts here, it looked like a model had to be approved in each caliber that the mfg. proposed to sell in MA! Swapping out a barrel to create what one wants sounded like a short-cut that could net a wrist-slap.
Needless to say(?) M1911, I am holding back on my thoughts about the whole AG/Consumer 'Protection' concept as practiced here. Life was easier in Baghdad ... open carry, the only 'gun issues' were with 'the other guys', and no legal-snowball-from-hell such as some places have to deal with (snafu?).
Re. "negative reps" (a two-way street), what exactly is the issue? The forums seem to run a whole lot more casual questions than this post! Also, if you regard NES as a resource as well as a social outlet, and entertainment, why would you not ask a question when there is no other immediate source for a quick response? Mr.Gunlaw, I'm not ... or am I reading the 'n.r.' comment the wrong way? If so, 'memory dump' this paragraph. (We all have our 'days', this may be mine..)![[cheers]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/018.gif "Cheers [cheers]")
Needless to say(?) M1911, I am holding back on my thoughts about the whole AG/Consumer 'Protection' concept as practiced here. Life was easier in Baghdad ... open carry, the only 'gun issues' were with 'the other guys', and no legal-snowball-from-hell such as some places have to deal with (snafu?).
Re. "negative reps" (a two-way street), what exactly is the issue? The forums seem to run a whole lot more casual questions than this post! Also, if you regard NES as a resource as well as a social outlet, and entertainment, why would you not ask a question when there is no other immediate source for a quick response? Mr.Gunlaw, I'm not ... or am I reading the 'n.r.' comment the wrong way? If so, 'memory dump' this paragraph. (We all have our 'days', this may be mine..)
If you had clicked on the compliance faq I wrote in the MA gun law
forum (it's stickied there) and even if you speed-read it, you would probably have had the same answer in under a few minutes.
![[wink]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/002.gif "Wink [wink]")
http://www.northeastshooters.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=37553
FWIW I'll add this "caliber changing" business to the FAQ as well, since
it seems to come up once in awhile.
-Mike
Interesting, and good to hear one can build up what you want even if the state never specifically approves the resulting gun... Just coming into MA, and trying to figure out the do's and don'ts here, it looked like a model had to be approved in each caliber that the mfg. proposed to sell in MA! Swapping out a barrel to create what one wants sounded like a short-cut that could net a wrist-slap.
Needless to say(?) M1911, I am holding back on my thoughts about the whole AG/Consumer 'Protection' concept as practiced here. Life was easier in Baghdad ... open carry, the only 'gun issues' were with 'the other guys', and no legal-snowball-from-hell such as some places have to deal with (snafu?).
Re. "negative reps" (a two-way street), what exactly is the issue? The forums seem to run a whole lot more casual questions than this post! Also, if you regard NES as a resource as well as a social outlet, and entertainment, why would you not ask a question when there is no other immediate source for a quick response? Mr.Gunlaw, I'm not ... or am I reading the 'n.r.' comment the wrong way? If so, 'memory dump' this paragraph. (We all have our 'days', this may be mine..)
I think M1911's point is that this has been covered many, many times and the answer is in the search. That said, the search feature doesn't always work the best (using google works better) and the MA laws are absurd enough that most reasonable people wouldn't expect them to be as they are.
I do suggest poring over the MA gun laws sub forum.
Since you speak of Baghdad, I assume you are (or have been associated with the military). There is an old military saying along the lines of "assuming makes an ass out of you and me." MA gun laws are very, very confusing. Assuming that something might be legal or illegal, and suggesting that on the forums doesn't help anyone. If you don't know, then research, or ask.
The laws that govern the approved firearm roster and the AG's "consumer protection" regulations govern what a dealer can sell. They don't govern what a person can possess. You can confirm that by reading the statute and regulations. The AG's regulations are here:
http://www.mass.gov/?pageID=cagoter...t&f=government_Regulations_940CMR16&csid=Cago
Read the AG's regulations and you'll see language like:
See? It governs what a dealer can sell, not what you can possess.
The statutory limitations about what a dealer can sell are in Chapter 140 Section 123: http://www.mass.gov/legis/laws/mgl/140-123.htm
zork51
NES Member
Dr. Grant,
So this EOPS "roster" you are referring to. Is this something we can look at and determine what "new to us Ma**h***" guns are currently being evaluated for sale in Massachusetts?
The EOPS Approved Firearms Roster can be found here:
http://www.mass.gov/?pageID=eopssub...ervices&L3=Approved+Weapons+Rosters&sid=Eeops
zork51
NES Member
Thank you but I've seen this list before. 1/2 the guns on it are not for sale in Mass. So why are those models even listed on it?
Because there are two tiers of compliance in MA. The EOPS roster and the AG's unwritten "approval" via her not whining. Just because a gun passes
EOPS testing doesn't mean that it can be sold at retail in MA.
Read all about MA handgun compliance fun here:
http://www.northeastshooters.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=37553
-Mike
zork51
NES Member
Thanks Mike,
Life in the PROM. There's a stock ex military guy working the ammo counter at Dick's in Leominster I was talking with.
He's from Louisiana. He just can't believe Massachusetts and we it keeps re electing our Liberal officials here.
Life in the PROM. There's a stock ex military guy working the ammo counter at Dick's in Leominster I was talking with.
He's from Louisiana. He just can't believe Massachusetts and we it keeps re electing our Liberal officials here.
OK, looks like (as hoped) some good info. has come forth and the extra info. on MA. gun laws pinpoints useful info too. Thanks to all who contributed helpful advice and insights. I'm dropping out here as have to get my application to the local dept. later this morning, but I know some threads do run on at length, so 'have at it' and enjoy!
Read the third paragraph from the top of the first page:
Googling "940 CMR 16.00" brings you straight to the AG's regulations. Read those, too, and you'll now understand.
http://www.mass.gov/?pageID=cagoter...t&f=government_Regulations_940CMR16&csid=Cago
