Sig 516

[BearArms]

Has anyone had a chance to fire/fondle one of these rifles? Looks like just another piston AR but I haven't heard to much about them.

Thanks

http://www.sigsauer.com/products/ShowCatalogProductDetails.aspx?categoryid=69&productid=296

 

[MichaelJR]

It's basically a sig556 in an AR platform. Supposedly they are complete beasts, and accurate as all hell.

 

[PaulD]

It's basically a sig556 in an AR platform. Supposedly they are complete beasts, and accurate as all hell.

No. The SIG 556 and SIG 516 aren't related in much of any way. The 516 is a piston AR that seems to be a bit of a rip off of LWRC.

http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=59700

The 556 is much more like an AK47 in terms of the bolt, carrier and how the op rod works.

 

[glide]

7.3 lbs sounds heavy. I just hope it's more balanced than the 556 series. That and I hope the QC is sorted out.

 

[MichaelJR]

No. The SIG 556 and SIG 516 aren't related in much of any way. The 516 is a piston AR that seems to be a bit of a rip off of LWRC.

http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=59700

The 556 is much more like an AK47 in terms of the bolt, carrier and how the op rod works.

I meant ruggedness and overall reliability, it's a 556 but looks like an AR....the internals are obviously not the same. Comeon man you know I'm not slow lol

 

[MassMark]

I handled the full line of the 516 at SHOT with one prevailing thought: Front heavy as hell. It has the balance of a crackwhore gymnast. Even more front heavy than a Ruger SR556. I don't know how much lead Sig decided to put up front in this thing, but it's like a boat anchor. Comparing it to the new Colt piston rifles was...well...no comparison. Having some trigger time on an LMT and having handled the Colt, my initial impression is that Sig has another stinker on it's hands...

 

[MichaelJR]

I handled the full line of the 516 at SHOT with one prevailing thought: Front heavy as hell. It has the balance of a crackwhore gymnast. Even more front heavy than a Ruger SR556. I don't know how much lead Sig decided to put up front in this thing, but it's like a boat anchor. Comparing it to the new Colt piston rifles was...well...no comparison. Having some trigger time on an LMT and having handled the Colt, my initial impression is that Sig has another stinker on it's hands...

Still don't understand why they didn't just....give us the 550 like we really wanted....waste if you ask me, the 556 didn't do all that well, and the 516 is impossible to get your hands on (like the mythical rfb)....sig so far has disappointed the civi market in the long gun category....well at least me

 

[MassMark]

Still don't understand why they didn't just....give us the 550 like we really wanted....waste if you ask me, the 556 didn't do all that well, and the 516 is impossible to get your hands on (like the mythical rfb)....sig so far has disappointed the civi market in the long gun category....well at least me

I've been interested in a piston SBR and instantly gravitated toward the example they had. I picked it up off the rack and said: "Holy shit - it this thing heavy." It's like a brick. I walked over to the Colt booth and picked up the identical Colt APC and it was so noticeably different, that I went back to the Sig booth to make sure I wasn't insane, (still not sure). I can't imagine that anyone - even the most die-hard Sig fanbois will buy this rifle, unless they get hit with a stupid stick. Sig markets this crap because they can and people tend to buy it. Frankly, if I won a new Sig, I'd sell it instantly. I was in the market for literally any 9mm I wanted and looked at a Sig Tac Ops - new in the box. "Shoddy" was my first and last impression of that pistol - all for $900.00

I think Colt really has a winner on its hands with the APC, (AKA: M5 LE1020)...It's touted as being a "416-killer" and not by Colt. I think it may well be, as it's even more balanced than any of the 416's I handled.

 

[BearArms]

Is the Colt APC available? I did a search and didn't come up with much.

 

[drgrant]

Still don't understand why they didn't just....give us the 550 like we really wanted....waste if you ask me, the 556 didn't do all that well, and the 516 is impossible to get your hands on (like the mythical rfb)....sig so far has disappointed the civi market in the long gun category....well at least me

The 550 would have tanked here because nobody wants to pay $50 or more for a rifle mag.

The 556 is OK for what it is, but the problem is with its weight and screwy ergos (like for example, if you have small hands, you can't release the mag with your index finger) it ended up being a stinker.

Remember that these guns have to compete against Tier-1 ARs because they're over the $1000 mark.

What does a 516 or a 556 get me that a Colt 6920 didn't get me years ago? Virtually nothing except somewhat better resistance to sand.... wheee... BFD. Oh, it comes with a better trigger, I'll give it that much.

The Sig 556 rifle would be cool if it was under a grand, and didn't come with junk furniture. (That plastic railed forend thing was the biggest insult to the rifle going, as well as that "chinese junk optics inc" holosight that they had the nerve to ship with some versions of the rifle.... it's like having a diamond set into a ring made out of pot metal.

-Mike

 

[MassMark]

Is the Colt APC available? I did a search and didn't come up with much.

It was unveiled at SHOT, so figure later this year. I asked a Colt rep if these rifles were in production and if uppers would be available and his answer was: "Absolutely". I asked if there was a timeframe to market and he replied: "This year". Apparently, Colt does not take the 'Magpul approach' to releasing it's products - and that's a good thing....

 

[BearArms]

It was unveiled at SHOT, so figure later this year. I asked a Colt rep if these rifles were in production and if uppers would be available and his answer was: "Absolutely". I asked if there was a timeframe to market and he replied: "This year". Apparently, Colt does not take the 'Magpul approach' to releasing it's products - and that's a good thing....

Ok thanks. Did he give you an idea of msrp?

 

[vellnueve]

The 550 would have tanked here because nobody wants to pay $50 or more for a rifle mag.

The 556 is OK for what it is, but the problem is with its weight and screwy ergos (like for example, if you have small hands, you can't release the mag with your index finger) it ended up being a stinker.

Remember that these guns have to compete against Tier-1 ARs because they're over the $1000 mark.

What does a 516 or a 556 get me that a Colt 6920 didn't get me years ago? Virtually nothing except somewhat better resistance to sand.... wheee... BFD. Oh, it comes with a better trigger, I'll give it that much.

The Sig 556 rifle would be cool if it was under a grand, and didn't come with junk furniture. (That plastic railed forend thing was the biggest insult to the rifle going, as well as that "chinese junk optics inc" holosight that they had the nerve to ship with some versions of the rifle.... it's like having a diamond set into a ring made out of pot metal.

-Mike

The 556 is a nice rifle and the trigger is the best bone-stock EBR trigger I've personally used.

 

[crazymjb]

If you are going to do a piston AR, it had better have a folding stock and a forward mounted charging handle, or I'm not interested.

Mike

 

[PaulD]

If you are going to do a piston AR, it had better have a folding stock and a forward mounted charging handle, or I'm not interested.

Mike

It's kind of a stretch to call it an AR at that point. The only one I know of like that is the Rock River.

 

[crazymjb]

I guess I should say .223 battle rifle/direct competitor to the AR.

Mike

 

[PaulD]

I guess I should say .223 battle rifle/direct competitor to the AR.

Mike

A year or so ago, I decided I wanted a piston AR. I ended up with a Robinson XCR instead.

 

[drgrant]

It's kind of a stretch to call it an AR at that point. The only one I know of like that is the Rock River.

ZM systems used to have an AR like that, where they put the spring above everything. I think Olympic arms did too, (OA-93 series?) but most people don't even bother mentioning it because it's probably junk like everything else they make.

-Mike

 

[PaulD]

ZM systems used to have an AR like that, where they put the spring above everything. I think Olympic arms did too, (OA-93 series?) but most people don't even bother mentioning it because it's probably junk like everything else they make.

-Mike

Yeah, the ZM was bought by Para (not sure if they bought the whole company or just rights to the design) but that's not a piston, exactly. The video here shows the action pretty well.

http://firearmsandtraining.blogspot.com/2009/01/z-m-weapons-lr300-take-down-details.html

While it's not a piston, it looks like it has similar advantages (and probably disadvantages) to a piston gun.

 

[bhmax16]

I have not handled a 516, but I'll add that I love my 556. Sure...over in the Sig forums and elsewhere you'll hear some bashing, but most of the things the rifle gets bashed about aren't issues with the gun itself, but rather accessories or lack thereof. Why bash a gun because it came with a crappy holo sight or because the rear BUIS is junk? Sure the plastic handrails are flimsy and ugly too...but none of these issues are with the gun itself. My iron sights were eliminated when I installed a troy battle rail to replace the plastic hand guards...sure it cost me $300 for the part but the gun is even more rock solid now (and it wasn't bad to begin with). Add some iron sights of your choice and/or a quality optic such as an EOtech and you have a very nice, reliable, will eat any ammo you throw at it rifle on your hands. This thing flings spent brass literally 25-30 feet 45 degrees from my position. Yes it's front heavy, and with the new battle rail mine weighs in at nearly 8.5 pounds; but the weight doesn't bother me. Gives you a reason to workout more IMO. Given how happy I've been with the 556 I wish they'd make a Mass compliant version of the new 556R (for Russian) which takes AK mags and shoots the 7.62x39 round.

Sigs are expensive...sometimes you gotta pay to play. Everybody and their mother has an AR, so it's nice to be able to have something different My 2 cents

 

[BearArms]

If you are going to do a piston AR, it had better have a folding stock and a forward mounted charging handle, or I'm not interested.

Mike

Already have some AK's,thanks

ETA: A friend of mine has a 556 and I can't help myself but to call it a $1300 black AK. He really doesn't find it that funny

 

[TheFaz]

I have a 556 and with the Swiss style furniture it's not muzzle heavy at all, less so than most M4 clones with heavy barrels and railed forends, that's for sure. Not to mention it has a true folding stock, and cost only $850, less than most M4s as well. Eats everything, including crappy wolf, about 1000 rounds through so far with no cleaning or lube. Just took it out of the box and started shooting. Most of the complaints about it are from folks who've never held or shot one, just passing along what they read on the net.

You'll read the same about the MSAR STG-556. Yet I've got the same # of rounds through, again out of the box with no cleaning or lube, and it's been fantastic. Probably my favorite 5.56 rifle actually. That's why I take the "internet consensus" on guns with a grain of salt, as they are often wrong.

 

[Mass-diver]

I have a 556 and with the Swiss style furniture it's not muzzle heavy at all, less so than most M4 clones with heavy barrels and railed forends, that's for sure. Not to mention it has a true folding stock, and cost only $850, less than most M4s as well. Eats everything, including crappy wolf, about 1000 rounds through so far with no cleaning or lube. Just took it out of the box and started shooting. Most of the complaints about it are from folks who've never held or shot one, just passing along what they read on the net.

You'll read the same about the MSAR STG-556. Yet I've got the same # of rounds through, again out of the box with no cleaning or lube, and it's been fantastic. Probably my favorite 5.56 rifle actually. That's why I take the "internet consensus" on guns with a grain of salt, as they are often wrong.

I had a 556 that I had to sell because I needed the cash. I changed out the stupid fish fills forend and it really helped with the balance.

I actually really liked the rifle. It was 100% reliable. It was little heavy overall, but certainly not a "bad" rifle. If I could have a free state folding stock on it, I would buy another one in a heartbeat.

EDIT: once the MA AWB is stuck down I'll buy another one with the folder

 

[PaulD]

I have a 556 and with the Swiss style furniture it's not muzzle heavy at all, less so than most M4 clones with heavy barrels and railed forends, that's for sure. Not to mention it has a true folding stock, and cost only $850, less than most M4s as well. Eats everything, including crappy wolf, about 1000 rounds through so far with no cleaning or lube. Just took it out of the box and started shooting. Most of the complaints about it are from folks who've never held or shot one, just passing along what they read on the net.

You'll read the same about the MSAR STG-556. Yet I've got the same # of rounds through, again out of the box with no cleaning or lube, and it's been fantastic. Probably my favorite 5.56 rifle actually. That's why I take the "internet consensus" on guns with a grain of salt, as they are often wrong.

I have a Robinson XCR which is very similar in operation to a SIG 556. It's pretty much my favorite and if I couldn't have one, I'd probably get a 556 and put the Swiss furniture on it. I've really grown use to how easy it is to clean and field strip.

 

[drgrant]

I have a 556 and with the Swiss style furniture it's not muzzle heavy at all, less so than most M4 clones with heavy barrels and railed forends, that's for sure. Not to mention it has a true folding stock, and cost only $850, less than most M4s as well. Eats everything, including crappy wolf, about 1000 rounds through so far with no cleaning or lube. Just took it out of the box and started shooting. Most of the complaints about it are from folks who've never held or shot one, just passing along what they read on the net.

You don't need a PhD to realize the gun is heavy, though. Not any heavier than an AK, though.

$850 though, that's pretty damn good. That's more like where the price is supposed to be.

-Mike

 

[redobs]

So has anyone had a chance to play with a 516 since this thread was started?

 

[Kisspik002]

I own a 516 upper that I have mated to a stag lower and I honestly love my 516. I have had many ARs all DI and this is my first piston system. No matter how many rounds I shoot the BCG is cool and clean. Because its a piston I can shoot wolf, Tula, or any steel cheap ammo and no zero issues due to fouling. Cleaning literally takes me 10 mins. I got mine for a very very good price. But for 1050 bucks for the upper alone you could look at Adams arms. But I do love the 516 upper