So with these two fugitives in NY, what's the legality of law enforcement to search

[spcantwell]

It's a good clause, it gets abused.

I walk by your house on some other errand, I hear screaming, I look in the window and see you bound and gagged. I hear the screaming from another part of the house.
A. I call it in and wait for a warrant.
B. I kick in a door and end the situation.

c. you are swingers into that kind of thing and it still goes sideways.

I think you ment that you "claim" you heard a scream so you break down the door, the person in the chair had a ball gag in (so you didnt hear them) and the other person was downstairs eating a sandwich so they didnt either.... but once your in, you are in like flint. So you had to shoot the guy makeing a sandwich, he was holding a knife (butter knife) and didnt drop it as soon as he saw someone with a gun in his house, you screamed something but it took him longer then your reaction time to realise that you claimed to be a cop and told him to drop it. 31 rounds later (he was hit by 3 of them) IA shows up for an internal investigation and find that it was a justifiable shooting and his wife (upstairs in the ball gag) is charged with resisting arrest....

(Sorry I used 'you' in this context, but its easier then typeing out 'the responding officer' each time)

 

[Palladin]

the bimbo who provided the tools

 

[Hoover]

Unfortunately, it is NOT as easy as saying "no, thank you" or "no warrant, no search". If you think otherwise, take a look...



Yeah, I'd sue later, but how far will you REALLY go when they've got a foot in your door and you can't close it?

They made two mistakes. Don't ask to see the picture or anything else except do you have a warrant. The cops were away from the door at times, they should have said have a nice day and shut it. The longer it goes on, the more you say, the cops will try to say that you said something that gave them probable cause. Just be a record, do you have a waarrant, if not good day.

 

[SteelShooter]

So, whoever has one of these on his desk next to his computer should probably get rid of it?
Even if he found it laying on a riverbank?

View attachment 139336

Yes, unless you are a native american (American Indian)

 

[Ringworm]

It's a good clause, it gets abused.

I walk by your house on some other errand, I hear screaming, I look in the window and see you bound and gagged. I hear the screaming from another part of the house.
A. I call it in and wait for a warrant.
B. I kick in a door and end the situation.

c. you are swingers into that kind of thing and it still goes sideways.

******* cop kills someone just trying to get off.
goes home to dinner
murder victim and family have no recourse

Answer? F**k off, LE. You're not wanted or needed anymore. Simple as that. NYC proved how useless you are by shutting down LE for a bit. The complaint from NYC? Revenue from tickets was down. Not, and I repeat, NOT, an increase in crime.

 

[GlockJock]

not coming in without a warrant.....

Like Watertown?

 

[GlockJock]

Ask the people in Watertown what the "risks" are for refusal. The intimidation factor is very high, probably with threats of arrest for "interference with law enforcement" . . . legally it is all bluster, but with our court system I could see them getting a conviction. No idea wrt NY laws.

No I wouldn't let them in absent a warrant. They can search my shed however, I'd hand them the key.

Question: Suppose it's MA, and the JackBooted Thugs said "Eff you we're coming in cuz we think they're here"... No warrant, completely illegal search, and they discover you have 3 "unsecured properly" firearms, plus, say, a few illegal mags or other tidbits, something you'd only use at the range or on a trip to a free state in the forest, etc... So they kick your door in, discover things you don't want them seeing. You're on every news channel at qq, the Glob, Herald etc.. Illegal search and seizure, case dismissed or never even brought cuz DA knows it's fruit off a poisonous tree.. ...BUT.. what happens a year or three later when you go to renew and the Chief remembers your name from Channel 7 having blasted it out for all to see and hear?

No harm no foul? Or "So, sir, tell me about those unsecured. 38 revolvers and the 29 round Glock mags" ... ??"

 

[robjax]

what is wrong with all of you? Cops come to the house looking for these guys and if they had been there...they should be gift wrapped in body bags at the end of the driveway. No need for the cops to come in. Problem solved......all that's needed now is for them to shake your hand and say thank you. Throw the mutts into the trunk of their patrol car and be gone...I would them expect a call within couple of weeks to schedule the ceremony for my award for helping capture or kill two dangerous dudes.

That would be it...

 

[Ringworm]

what is wrong with all of you? Cops come to the house looking for these guys and if they had been there...they should be gift wrapped in body bags at the end of the driveway. No need for the cops to come in. Problem solved......all that's needed now is for them to shake your hand and say thank you. Throw the mutts into the trunk of their patrol car and be gone...I would them expect a call within couple of weeks to schedule the ceremony for my award for helping capture or kill two dangerous dudes.

That would be it...

+1
Best answer, yet.

 

[Hoover]

what is wrong with all of you? Cops come to the house looking for these guys and if they had been there...they should be gift wrapped in body bags at the end of the driveway. No need for the cops to come in. Problem solved......all that's needed now is for them to shake your hand and say thank you. Throw the mutts into the trunk of their patrol car and be gone...I would them expect a call within couple of weeks to schedule the ceremony for my award for helping capture or kill two dangerous dudes.

That would be it...

I don't want anyone to get hurt obviously. So as long as that happens, I'm kinda hopin they at least stay free for quite a while. I cheer for the gov to run around looking like fools like in PA looking for Frein. 1 guy there in a fairly small area had 1100 "professionals" chasing shadows.

Anyone else want it to go on as long as people are not hurt?

 

[SteelShooter]

what is wrong with all of you? Cops come to the house looking for these guys and if they had been there...they should be gift wrapped in body bags at the end of the driveway. No need for the cops to come in. Problem solved......all that's needed now is for them to shake your hand and say thank you. Throw the mutts into the trunk of their patrol car and be gone...I would them expect a call within couple of weeks to schedule the ceremony for my award for helping capture or kill two dangerous dudes.

That would be it...

I think you missed the whole point of the question

 

[robjax]

I think you missed the whole point of the question

No...I was just rethinking. My very first response is I would not let them in. And because of my latest response they really wouldn't need to come it. Bodies in bags at the end of driveway. I'll just talk with the leos over a nice glass of lemonade and the issue is resolved...

 

[Tyke]

So, whoever has one of these on his desk next to his computer should probably get rid of it?
Even if he found it laying on a riverbank?

View attachment 139336

Could be charged with violations of the Lacey Act.

 

[pcgod]

anyone refusing a "safety check" by the police in the search area must be refusing under duress from the two escapees. Therefore the police will immediately shoot all dogs in the vicinity, tear gas the home, punch a baby in the face, tackle a black teen girl, and finally storm the home (but not before doing a few tactical rolls first).

Why was I waiting for this......knew it was coming

 

[late08]

Plain view doctrine for sure.

Never consent.
Think about what you can be jacked up for in Ma.
You sure there's no empty brass around? Even in the range bag? Improper storage.
You were sitting at the press in the basement when they knocked.
Did you lock up all components before answering the door? Improper storage again.
Cleaning your gun perhaps? Bing , Improper storage.

How about that dummy Grenade sitting on the shelf?
They'll be back later (2AM) with a warrant ( No knock)and the swat team and bomb squad to make sure it's not live.

NEVER (and this is coming from most of my LEO friends) let them in without a warrant.
If they have one , step aside and fight it later.
You literally can not breath in this state without breaking some law, so something will be seen that if the cop wants to be an ass about it, your going to have trouble.

 

[late08]

Camera on front door, don't answer if you don't see someone you would like to talk to.

 

[codenamepaul]

I'd be surprised if they aren't in Canada by now.

Its been a week. By now they should be CanadiAN.

 

[dcmdon]

Ask the people in Watertown what the "risks" are for refusal. The intimidation factor is very high, probably with threats of arrest for "interference with law enforcement" . . . legally it is all bluster, but with our court system I could see them getting a conviction. No idea wrt NY laws.

No I wouldn't let them in absent a warrant. They can search my shed however, I'd hand them the key.

Did anyone in watertown refuse?

I'd have to imagine SOMEBODY refused.

I haven't heard about anything like that. I also heard (rumor) that there was a judge on site in watertown to sign warrants for people who refused.

Don

 

[Gibbs]

 

[Rob Boudrie]

OK, what legality do they have to enter the house without a warrant and what is the risk to you (Legal risk) for refusing entry?

There is no legal risk if you say "I do not give you permission to enter, but I will not offer any physical resistance if you enter without my consent".

You lose all right to complain or take legal action even if you consent under pressure, which is why the police are trained to get consent when their right to search is "iffy" and could later be called into question.

 

[codenamepaul]

There is no legal risk if you say "I do not give you permission to enter, but I will not offer any physical resistance if you enter without my consent".

You lose all right to complain or take legal action even if you consent under pressure, which is why the police are trained to get consent when their right to search is "iffy" and could later be called into question.

So what if you say "I do not consent and will resist any attempt to do so with lethal force"?

 

[M1911]

So what if you say "I do not consent and will resist any attempt to do so with lethal force"?

Then you may well have to use that lethal force. You'll end up getting more than you bargained for.

 

[codenamepaul]

Then you may well have to use that lethal force. You'll end up getting more than you bargained for.

Nah-that's a one way street even as the words are uttered. You'd have to crack the door aiming a rifle.

 

[sibort]

the bimbo who provided the tools

She provided her own tools for the inmates I guess. And then gave them power tools to escape.

 

[weekendracer]

I think you ment that you "claim" you heard a scream so you break down the door, the person in the chair had a ball gag in (so you didnt hear them) and the other person was downstairs eating a sandwich so they didnt either.... but once your in, you are in like flint. So you had to shoot the guy makeing a sandwich, he was holding a knife (butter knife) and didnt drop it as soon as he saw someone with a gun in his house, you screamed something but it took him longer then your reaction time to realise that you claimed to be a cop and told him to drop it. 31 rounds later (he was hit by 3 of them) IA shows up for an internal investigation and find that it was a justifiable shooting and his wife (upstairs in the ball gag) is charged with resisting arrest....

(Sorry I used 'you' in this context, but its easier then typeing out 'the responding officer' each time)

Hit by 3 of 31 rounds, that's some good shooting Lou.

 

[Lank]

only in "hot pursuit" can they chase someone through you house w/o permission.

NOTE: I am not a cop or attorney, but do have access to the internet.

No warrant, no thank you Sir(s).

 

[Hoover]

only in "hot pursuit" can they chase someone through you house w/o permission.

NOTE: I am not a cop or attorney, but do have access to the internet.

No warrant, no thank you Sir(s).

I think I've heard the NY LEO's and media claim they were very close to getting the two over a dozen times thus far. Does that qualify as hot persuit?

 

[ztargetshooter]

They'll control detonate my house when they find my reloading room.

 

[MA_Shooter]

your house for them?

Yeah, I know, I am opening a can of worms here. I know the 'legality' and search warrant and all that. The question is more like - what would you​, Dear NESers, do if/when the searching parties knock on your door and ask/demand to enter the house to search for these scumbags?

Shelter in place. Think Watertown.

 

[dcmdon]

If you don't say yes and they come in anyway, anything they find that they don't like they can't hassle you for right? But if you invite them in, they can bust you for your meth lab in the kitchen? Really no reason to say yes. If they're determined to come in no matter what, why condone it?

You've got the right idea. But they can hassle you for anything. They can arrest you for anything. They are less likely to prosecute you if anything they find is "fruit of the poisoned tree".

In watertown, they made a point of saying that if it wasn't a dead body they wouldn't follow up on it. But thats not what law is about. It shouldn't involve a nod and a wink and an assurance of "trust us".

Don