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So, you want to shoot 3 gun?

D

Dan S

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No, this isn't a link to an Xtranormal animation. While there is a lot of good information in the 3 Gun Noob thread, there is also a bunch of humor and other commentary. I recommend that thread be read too. This thread is stuff that I have observed and opinion. Hopefully, this will help shorten the learning curve for others.
The information will be based on the most popular types of 3 gun matches, the outlaw or non affiliated matches. This isn't slamming USPSA or IDPA matches, but, both of those simply don't have the following that the various outlaw matches do.

What is 3 gun?
3 gun, which is also known as Multi Gun is a sport where the competitor uses Rifle, Pistol and Shotgun in Action Shooting competitions. The matches are held around the country, but, has a stronger presence in the south and southwest of the country. I believe this is so, because of the availability of clubs with larger tracts of land. Matches are by no means limited to those areas. A quick look at it is shown here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1nCBFT2UM6A
Divisions:
The normal divisions in 3 gun are as follows. Open, Tactical Optics, Tactical Irons, Heavy Metal or He Man.
I shoot Tactical Optics as do the majority of competitors. The rules for the various matches concerning division equipment are fairly standardized.
Tac Optics allow 1 optic only on the rifle, no bipods and a 1"x 3" compensator. Shotguns can have an 8 round mag extension, no optics no porting or compensator. Some matches will allow a longer mag tube, and extra rounds can be loaded after the start signal. Often it will be noted that choke tubes can not be ported. Sometimes the wording can be misleading. Choke tubes and changing them during the match is not a problem. Pistols are pretty much Limited guns, with no comps, no optics and maximum mag length of 140MM.
Tac Irons is the same with the rifle having Iron Sights. Some matches are now allowing a non magnified optic on the rifle.
Heavy Metal requires a rifle in .308 Winchester or larger, with a magazine limit of 20 rounds, a pump shotgun and a pistol in .45 ACP. If a single stack is used, mags can be 170MM (10 round)
Open, well it's open! Rifles can have multiple optics, larger compensators, bipods, etc. Shotguns can be box magazine fed, speedloaders used or an Xrail system. Optics and compensators are also allow. Pistols can be USPSA open pistols along with the larger mags that go with them.
More to follow
 
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Firearms

In 3 gun, the AR is King! As we all know, it's the Leggo of the gun world.
The most important things are an accurate barrel, free float tube, good trigger and reliability. Most shooters use non railed hanguards. Few people hang things on the handguard other than a swivel stud. You won't see an handgrip on the guns of the top shooters. They grab the handguard out quite a ways, to be able to "drive" the gun and it will also minimize small hand movements. Some will start with one, then find out they can also get in the way when using barricades or other supports (trees, logs, rocks etc.)
A good compensator is not essential, but, it will allow faster follow up shots, it will also keep the sights closer to the target and allow you to see a hit sometimes faster than the RO picks it up.
Your sighting system should have a rugged mount. Most scopes will work far better with an extended mount, as eye relief has become more generous over the years. The vast majority in Tac Optics will be using a 1-4X scope as a quality scope can be purchased for a reasonable cost. Those with sponsors or deeper pockets may use something like the 1-6X Swarovski. An awesome scope, but, hard to justify for most people. I happen to use a Burris XTR 1-4x on one rifle and a Burris TAC30 on another.

Shotgun:
Benelli, FNH, Winchester, and now Mossberg are good choices, there are others. Remingtons don't seem to be able to be loaded as easily as the others I mentioned. Remingtons were once the standard, for good reason. Reasonable cost, wide availability, lots of parts available, and relative ease in loading with an EZ Loader installed. That has changed. More and more, the venerable 1100 and 11-87 have been replaced. The new comers have more robust interior parts concerning feeding. The Remington VersaMax is said to be more "Benelli like" internally, just gas operated for a softer feel. Whatever brand you choose, feed it good ammo in a match. Crimp quality is the biggest factor. Learn how to maintain it! Of the 3 guns you use, the shotgun will be the one to bite you, more often than not.
It's easy to empty a shotgun in a stage, how fast you can fill it up is what gives a good finish. Dummy rounds are available from Brownell's for practice. Use these, not snap caps.

Pistol:
This is easy, use what you have! Unless you shoot Heavy Metal, a good 9MM with reliable mags of up to 140MM is just fine.
 
Good information - reps inbound - but perhaps an overall description of exactly what a 3-gun competition IS might be in order for the newbies among us?

Edit on 9/16 - NSSF video on what 3-gun is with an excellent description is here:

 
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Equipment, basic

The equipment needed besides firerarms can be extensive, depending on how far you want to go. Basic stuff will carry you a very long ways, most of the way in fact.

Rifle:
Really you just need an assortment of magazines in differing capacities and mag holders for your belt. Not getting into state restrictions, you should have 20, 30 and 1 or more extended capacity mags. The 20 rounders work for sighting in, supported prone and in tight spaces. The 30's work for most everything. Extended mags, such as Pmags with extensions, the new Surefire mags are great for extended stages. If you don't have to reload, you can't mess up a reload. Mag holders can be molded, kydex and I've seen codura nylon also. A horzontal mounted holder can be very useful for behind your back.
A sling is also sometimes required. Single point slings, while popular with some crowds don't offer the stability while running or using another firearm for targets engaged prior to the rifle. I use a V Tac, and find it's quick adjustment a handy feature.
Shotgun:
You need to hold ammo, sometimes lots of it! Shell caddies such as from Choate, California Comp Works and others are most common. Europeans have been using holders for a style of loading that you grab 2 shells and stuff them in. This style is making it's way here. Several companies are making them in vest and belt versions. Carbon Arms is also making caddies that lends itself to the 2 shell loading.
Caddies can be found in 4, 6, and 8 round capacites. The 8 round is constructed with 2 rows of 4, one in front of the other. This caddie allows more rounds carried in less belt space.
Pistol:
Again, pistol mag holders are most common and easily found. I like a single pouch as opposed to a double, since the mags can be closer together, using less belt space.
A secure holster is desired. A super fast draw has less effect in this game. A full holster such as a Blade Tech is a good idea, particularly when going prone for rifle. This does not eliminate the "gun hanger" type at all. The locks on some of these make them extremely secure. The only drawback is lack of cover to keep some dirt out.
Belt:
A good quality inner/ outer belt system is good to have, but not necessary. Wilderness Instuctor belts are an excellent way to go, and low cost, but not low quality. Safariland's ELS system is looking to be the ultimate 3 gun belt setup. It allows a mix and match locking system that allows you to change your ammo holders easily without belt removal. It's just on the pricey side.
 
Good info Dan,
One thing I will add is when you have all your gear on, jump up and down a few times. Are all your mags and shells there? Nothing is worse than running through a stage only to find you left a trail of gear and ammo behind you
 
Dan S said:
A good quality inner/ outer belt system is good to have, but not necessary. Wilderness Instuctor belts are an excellent way to go, and low cost, but not low quality. Safariland's ELS system is looking to be the ultimate 3 gun belt setup. It allows a mix and match locking system that allows you to change your ammo holders easily without belt removal. It's just on the pricey side.
Click to expand...

I'm looking in to the ELS. Any suggestions on what to use for holster and pistol mags that are easy to mount the brackets on?
 
jar said:
I'm looking in to the ELS. Any suggestions on what to use for holster and pistol mags that are easy to mount the brackets on?
Click to expand...
Jeff, I'm waiting for my stuff. I'm looking more toward all the shotgun carriers, since those get shifted and added/subtracted more. I think the Blade Tech will work.
The ELS stuff is on sale right now at Safarilands selling site.
www.holsters.com
 
http://www.matchreg.com/3gun/CSSMulti.pdf has the equipment rules. They use IDPA scoring and at least some of the stages require using cover. The procedural rules (cover, reloads, etc) were a little hodge-podgey last year, but the CRO for each stage will explain what is required on the stage. I didn't hear of any inconsistency issues between squads.

There's some more info at: http://www.brianenos.com/forums/ind...p=1530209&hl=uscga&fromsearch=1&#entry1530209

I believe the stages are getting approved at tonights HGC meeting, so round counts will be posted this week. Last year some stages were one gun, some were multi. It was about 100 pistol, 50 shot, 5 slug, and 150 rifle. The benos post says no slugs this year.
 
How about rifle distance Jeff? I see the handgun distances will be greater than usual. Just trying to get an idea if I can make the trip. New Bedford Shotgun match same weekend so a 1 hour ride and $20 match fee may win out over a three + hour ride and $95 match fee [wink]
 
jar said:
The US Coast Guard Academy Combat Arms Team is putting on a 3 gun match at Hartford Gun Club in East Granby, CT. Sign up info is at www.matchreg.com.
Click to expand...
Jeff,
Can you start a separate thread for match announcements? I started this one to try and have information about getting started and that without an excess of drifts.
 
I just put a video into my post #3 from the National Shooting Sports Federation on 3-gun.

Looks like a lot of fun. I need a decent shotgun for it, though - all I have is a S&W 20 GA pump. Guess the next gun on my lust list is a 20GA semi... or a 12 GA Saiga (you CAN use a Saiga for 3-gun, right?).
 
dwarven1 said:
I just put a video into my post #3 from the National Shooting Sports Federation on 3-gun.

Looks like a lot of fun. I need a decent shotgun for it, though - all I have is a S&W 20 GA pump. Guess the next gun on my lust list is a 20GA semi... or a 12 GA Saiga (you CAN use a Saiga for 3-gun, right?).
Click to expand...

A Saiga will almost always put you in open division and there is one match I know of that they are not allowed. I would recommend a 12g over 20g.
 
Supermoto said:
A Saiga will almost always put you in open division and there is one match I know of that they are not allowed. I would recommend a 12g over 20g.
Click to expand...

I'll have to find someone with a 12GA auto to try first. I can't deal with the recoil from a 12GA pump for some reason. I know that the action of the Saiga eats up enough of the force that I don't mind it's recoil, though, so I hope that the recoil from a "standard" 12GA semi is comparable.
 
The 20 ga really doesn't have significantly less recoil. A gas operated shotgun will have a softer recoil than the inertia(recoil) guns. The Mossberg 930 is an up and coming shotgun, mainly due to it's price. Don't buy a "tactical" model. They just don't do well in the game.
 
dwarven1 said:
I'll have to find someone with a 12GA auto to try first. I can't deal with the recoil from a 12GA pump for some reason. I know that the action of the Saiga eats up enough of the force that I don't mind it's recoil, though, so I hope that the recoil from a "standard" 12GA semi is comparable.
Click to expand...

My Mossberg 930 is a lot softer than my Saiga
 
Great thread Dan. I've never really liked rifle slings much, (don't drop your rifle) but I can see that they're sometimes necessary. What are your thoughts on how and where a sling should be attached?
 
Knuckle Dragger said:
Great thread Dan. I've never really liked rifle slings much, (don't drop your rifle) but I can see that they're sometimes necessary. What are your thoughts on how and where a sling should be attached?
Click to expand...
With the V Tac, I attach it to the top of the stock, and at the end of the handguard. The handguard has a sling swivel stud on the bottom, I have a loop ahead of the swivel, and loop it around the handguard. It keeps the rifle scope up.
I've had to use a sling on the shotgun also at one match. I use the same setup on the Benelli.
 
Dan, opinions on pros/cons of the 3 shotgun loading approaches? (weak hand, strong hand, and the newly popular 2 at once) I currently load 4 weak hand from belt caddies, but I haven't put a ton of practice in to it. People are reporting more speed with less practice with the two at once stuff, but the caddies they're using are pretty pricey to try on a whim.
 
Jeff,
I load weak hand, 4 at a time. I did work at it, and practice occasionally. Not that I'm a great shooter by any means. I like the weak hand, as it keeps my hand in the place it needs to be to get back to business. You also don't wind up with your hand on a hot barrel.
I never did much with strong hand for some reason. If you use an 1100, I think strong hand is a bit better. It just may be the voices in my head telling me so. I don't like that platform for weak hand, the EZ loader just kind of interferes with it.
The new to this country, as the europeans have been loading the 2 at a time for a while, is pretty fast, without the long learning curve. Some do it weak hand, some strong. Some under the arm pit, some on the shoulder. The one common factor is, you have to dismount it, and roll it over. I think it's a bit more of a drawback with mixed shells that may be needed in a stage. You might need to leave an empty spot, to distinguish the shot from slugs. You notice that all the videos are with a cold gun?
Another thing, it may get in the way if you sling your rifle for a second part of a stage.
You're right, it is a pricey setup. Also, for long courses you may not be able to carry all the shells you need in one. Like stage 4 or RM3G this year. I had 44 rounds in caddies on my belt to start that stage. Even Carbon Arms Twins vest will only hold up to 32 if you buy all the extra holders.
Oh, I used every round in the caddies on that stage, plus the 9 in the gun. I almost burned my hand when clearing the gun when I finished. So, you have to be careful with the rolling the gun style, which will slow you down.
 
Here is a link to a load 2 belt that is reasonably priced 28 shells at $105 LINK

Here is their video that shows all types of loading
[video=youtube_share;eSN266f1-Jo]http://youtu.be/eSN266f1-Jo[/video]

As much as I have tried, loading my 11-87 is only good for me turn and burn. Every video I see of people doing efficient, fast shotgun reloads, they are NOT using a Remington Shotgun. I don't see me ever changing but anyone looking at buying a shotgun for this type of game, my recommendation is Not a Remington.
 

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