SonofaBITCH! (outrage over "innocent" state trooper who shot Norton woman)

[caboose84]

You really need to read post #59 Those guys were nobodies.

True, but *when* was that? I'm guessing 25 years ago, or more.

I think the treatment of incidents with firearms since that time has changed. Just food for thought.

 

[Coyote33]

You really need to read post #59 Those guys were nobodies.

True, but *when* was that? I'm guessing 25 years ago, or more.

I think the treatment of incidents with firearms since that time has changed. Just food for thought.

That post wasn't there when I typed mine up I guess. It was also birdshot in a foot, not a ball through a hip and groin. Was the birdshot one after hours and out of season?

 

[Broc]

So with that rationale everyone who gets in a car wreck should be charged with reckless driving and driving to endanger. There is a thing called discretion.

Cop or not, no one should be made a criminal over an accident like this. Civil court will hit his wallet, as it should.

When you are hunting you are supposed to:

(in no particular order)

1- Point your gun ina safe direction
2- know whats beyond the target
3- POSITIVELY IDENTIFY WAHT YOU ARE SHOOTING AT
4- make sure you are following the laws and its hunting season....

When you get in a car accident there are many variables. maybe there was sand and you couldnt stop fast snough. Maybe someone cut you off, maybe you got a heart attack while driving....

This guy jsut shot at noise, didnt even pay attention what he was aiming at. If you have ever been hunting in new England, you know how close most shots are. There is no excuse to shoot a person thinkign that person was an animal. The problem is: there are too many peopel that are trigger happy, too many people that just wnat to kill something.

 

[namedpipes]

Glad someone's awake !

I got it too, I just can't figure out how you knew my rl identity!

 

[Coyote33]

Was the same charge MGL Chap 131 Sec 60. Careless and negligent use of a firearm. A shooting injury is a shooting injury, how big or how little it is or time of day does not matter, as those are not applicable to the charge.

Of course, they would have had a charge for "hunting out of season" (whatever the law is), "reckless behavior", and maybe "disorderly person" thrown in, just for good measure.

 

[StevieP]

Well then let's just take the ****ing law off the books then. If NOBODY will ever be found guilty of it, then what's the point?

 

[TayNinh_66]

Actually not so, My second or third year on the job as A Natural Rersource Officer (Before the name change to EPO) I investigated a hunting accident in Maynard, one hunter shot his friend in the foot with some kind of bird shot shooting through the brush at what he thought was a rabbit. I presented the case before The Clerk-Magistrate of Concord District Court. The clerk "declined to issue the complaint".

I was bunny hunting with two friends a few few years ago. I was on the downhill side of a huge bramble patch driving the bunnies along, apparently successfully because one of my friends let go with his twelve gauge, and nailed me right in the right leg. I was wearing thick jeans, so not much harm done except to his ears from my yelling. It happens. Can't imagine reporting it.

 

[Deleted member 12999]

I was bunny hunting with two friends a few few years ago. I was on the downhill side of a huge bramble patch driving the bunnies along, apparently successfully because one of my friends let go with his twelve gauge, and nailed me right in the right leg. I was wearing thick jeans, so not much harm done except to his ears from my yelling. It happens. Can't imagine reporting it.

If you had to go to hospital with GSW, it would get reported...

+man points for not tossing your buddy under the bus though.

 

[Admin]

I'm not saying this particular incident wasn't a case of negligence, but I do agree with your analogy of the car accident. Shooters are some arrogant bastards to say there's no such thing as an accident. They parrot the words of people like Col. Copper and it's gospel. Sometimes accidents do happen. It's human error and we're all prone to it. Whether it be with guns, cars, chainsaws, or a broken rubber. Accidents happen.

He shot without identifying his target. That will get you hard time in the military if you do that. Why should this be different?

 

[Admin]

You're in the woods DEER hunting and you mistake this:

For this:

You kill someone's mother and grandmother and you're telling me it was a F-ing accident. WOW.

 

[MisterHappy]

Derek. Be fair.

It was a low-light condition; the wiew of the target was obstructed, and the season was almost over (more or less).

Given those conditions, a hail-mary shot is understandable.

 

[mx250man]

This is not meant to be a comment on the specific circumstance of this thread, but more to the "no such thing as accident" sentiment that has been expressed.

The plain and simple fact is that people make mistakes. They make small mistakes, they make big mistakes. The very nature of people is that they are not perfect. People see things where there isn't anything to see. People don't see things when they are right in front of their faces. The mind is not infallible in any aspect of what it does. This is something we accept as being human. Otherwise humans won't be allowed to do anything. To let people do means to let people fail.

 

[joeendris]

So with that rationale everyone who gets in a car wreck should be charged with reckless driving and driving to endanger. There is a thing called discretion.

Cop or not, no one should be made a criminal over an accident like this. Civil court will hit his wallet, as it should.

Really think the result would be the same if it was you or me? We, mere mortals, who aren't protected by the Tin Men....we would've been found negligent, fined, lost our LTC/FID, and maybe seen jail time. Make no mistake about it. Mere mortals aren't allowed "accidents".

And discretion went out the door with a little thing called Zero Tolerance. This state leads in that bullshit, look around you. Stan, in Lowell, that's the level of discretion you get in this state.....
Anthony McKay, that's discretion. The only reason Blodgett didn't prosecute is because he was looking at the chopping block on his career. But he was damn determined to sentence Anthony to 5 years in jail. Only because of public outrage did that a**h*** back down. Not out of discretion.

 

[Jose]

I'm not saying this particular incident wasn't a case of negligence, but I do agree with your analogy of the car accident. Shooters are some arrogant bastards to say there's no such thing as an accident. They parrot the words of people like Col. Copper and it's gospel. Sometimes accidents do happen. It's human error and we're all prone to it. Whether it be with guns, cars, chainsaws, or a broken rubber. Accidents happen.

I'll accidentally put a .308 round through your brain housing group, then we can talk about it.

 

[mx250man]

I'll accidentally put a .308 round through your brain housing group, then we can talk about it.

Except that isn't an accident, it's premeditation - which you seem to be prone to in this thread? Are you insinuating that the cop actually meant to shoot the nice lady, and her dogs?

 

[bullseye]

Except that isn't an accident, it's premeditation - which you seem to be prone to in this thread? Are you insinuating that the cop actually meant to shoot the nice lady, and her dogs?

We'll never know!

 

[TomH]

Except that isn't an accident, it's premeditation - which you seem to be prone to in this thread? Are you insinuating that the cop actually meant to shoot the nice lady, and her dogs?

The dogs, for sure.

 

[Jose]

Are you insinuating that the cop actually meant to shoot the nice lady, and her dogs?

Maybe he did, maybe he didn't. Truth is, we don't know if he was even aiming at anything or nothing.

An accident is when you have a clear shot to a perfectly identifiable target and due to freak circumstances someone happened to walk into the line of fire behind the target but unseen to the shooter.

When someone shoots into brush because they "heard something" it ceases to be a ****ing accident and becomes, at the very ****ing least, criminal negligence. At worst involuntary manslaughter.

 

[MisterHappy]

I mostly agree with Jose's last post but the lady in this case didn't die. Since this thread was started about a specific incident, the actual facts should be kept in mind. In the Amsh ND thread I started, there was a death.

A shot at a target that it not positively identified is negligence, not an accident.

If the shooter thought that it was Bambi, but it was actually Fido & his Person, then it's a mistake, not an accident.

An accident is when there is no breaking of the rules, and there is still a "surprise."

If a shooter on the Trap range closes a pump action with their finger on the trigger, that's a Negligent Discharge (as it could have been avoided); if the firing pin is broken, and stuck forward, and you get a slam fire on closing, that's an accident.

But, if all the "rules" are followed, the only result is a story.

 

[dhuze]

This is not meant to be a comment on the specific circumstance of this thread, but more to the "no such thing as accident" sentiment that has been expressed.

The plain and simple fact is that people make mistakes. They make small mistakes, they make big mistakes. The very nature of people is that they are not perfect. People see things where there isn't anything to see. People don't see things when they are right in front of their faces. The mind is not infallible in any aspect of what it does. This is something we accept as being human. Otherwise humans won't be allowed to do anything. To let people do means to let people fail.

This is where you ALWAYS aim when hunting deer.

If you can't see what you are shooting at you can't aim for clean kill shot. It's not a "mistake" to shoot anybody or anything you do not mean to shoot. He shot at motion plain and simple. It's not an accident or a mistake.It's negligence.

 

[Admin]

This is where you ALWAYS aim when hunting deer.
He shot at motion plain and simple. It's not an accident or a mistake.It's negligence.

That was the point I was trying to make.

 

[StevieP]

This is not meant to be a comment on the specific circumstance of this thread, but more to the "no such thing as accident" sentiment that has been expressed.

The plain and simple fact is that people make mistakes. They make small mistakes, they make big mistakes. The very nature of people is that they are not perfect. People see things where there isn't anything to see. People don't see things when they are right in front of their faces. The mind is not infallible in any aspect of what it does. This is something we accept as being human. Otherwise humans won't be allowed to do anything. To let people do means to let people fail.

Mistake != Accident

And when you make a mistake WITH A GUN, it's negligence. Especially if you shoot a PERSON while "trying" to shoot at a dog, neither of which is legal.

The 12 Golden rules for Safe Gun Handling
1. Always treat the gun as loaded.
2. Always keep the gun pointed in a safe direction.
3. Always keep your finger straight and off the trigger until you are ready to shoot.
4. Always keep the gun unloaded until you are ready to use it.
5. Never point the gun at anything you don't intend to destroy.
6. Be sure of your target and what is beyond it.
7. Learn the mechanical and handling characteristics of the gun you are using.
8. Always use proper Ammunition.
9. Be sure the barrel is clear of obstructions before loading and shooting.
10. If your gun fails to fire when the trigger is pulled, hold your shooting position for several seconds; then with the muzzle pointed in a safe direction, carefully unload the gun.
11. Don't rely on the gun's safety to keep it from firing.
12. Be aware of your surroundings when handling guns so you don't trip or lose your balance and accidentally point and/or fire the gun at anyone or anything.

Range Safety
1. Follow the 12 golden rules.
2. Know and follow all the rules of the Shooting Range.
3. Listen and do what the Range Master tells you to do.
4. Un-case and case your gun at the shooting bench, never behind the safety line.
5. Always keep the barrel pointed down range.
6. Always keep the gun on safe until you intend to shoot.
7. Always wear eye and ear protection when shooting.
8. Never shoot at water or hard surfaces.

Hunting Safety
1. Follow the 12 golden rules.
2. When hunting in a group, always pick one person to act as a Safety Officer for the Day or Trip.
3. Establish and share everyone's zone of fire with each other and know where everyone is at all times.
4. Always keep the gun on safe until you intend to shoot.
5. Never climb over anything with a loaded gun in your hand or on your person.
6. Never use a scope on a gun as Binoculars.
7. If you fall or trip, control your muzzle. Afterward, check the gun for damage and/or obstructions in the barrel.
8. When in Doubt; Don't shoot.


By my count, this "officer of the law" (state trooper) broke several of those "rules" never mind the LAW.

When you break that many rules all at once, the result is a foregone conclusion, not an accident.

I don't see many of the brothers of the thin blue line defending him. But neither do I hear any outrage. Their silence tells me all I need to know.

 

[MisterHappy]

Not me, When Derek and I are out looking for deer, he is holding the spotlight, I aim for the head.

I think that there's a distinction being drawn between "hunting" and "Looking for deer ...[with a] spotlight..."

 

[ckaminski]

I'm not saying this particular incident wasn't a case of negligence, but I do agree with your analogy of the car accident. Shooters are some arrogant bastards to say there's no such thing as an accident. They parrot the words of people like Col. Copper and it's gospel. Sometimes accidents do happen. It's human error and we're all prone to it. Whether it be with guns, cars, chainsaws, or a broken rubber. Accidents happen.

Except in cases where bridges fall out from underneath you or tunnels collapse on you, every car "accident" has a proximal cause in one or more drivers. So does every negligent discharge.

An accident with a gun is when you fire into a sand berm 100y away, hit a rock 5 feet deep, and have the bullet ricochet back into your face.

 

[namedpipes]

Not me, When Derek and I are out looking for deer, he is holding the spotlight, I aim for the head.

Why did I suddenly flash back on the redneck Kangaroo hunt scene in Crocodile Dundee?

- - - Updated - - -

Except in cases where bridges fall out from underneath you or tunnels collapse on you, every car "accident" has a proximal cause in one or more drivers. So does every negligent discharge.

An accident with a gun is when you fire into a sand berm 100y away, hit a rock 5 feet deep, and have the bullet ricochet back into your face.

Similarly, a Darwin event with a gun is when you shoot into a rock ledge 10y away and have the bullet ricochet back into your face.

One is an accident, the other is Darwin in action.

 

[scouter-rick]

............. I understand the lady who was shot is going after the landowner..............

You need to talk about things you know something about. This is FALSE! The insurance company is seeking settlement and is driving the law suit(s) as is their right to attempt to recover their losses. She may be named but she is not the agressor.

 

[fivepak]

I'll accidentally put a .308 round through your brain housing group, then we can talk about it.

Bring it, tough guy.

 

[fivepak]

He shot without identifying his target. That will get you hard time in the military if you do that. Why should this be different?

Read my first sentence again. This may have been a case of negligence. I just disagree with the statement that accidents can't happen with a firearm. We've all had accidents at one time or another, but I guess never with a firearm, because we're all experts here and above human error with a firearm.

 

[Mark from MA]

Accidents can happen. But to me an accident is a deflection or some crazy circumstance where a bullet or arrow strikes something unseen or behind the intended target.

For instance if your intended target is a deer and you didnt see a person behind the deer or got some dflection or missed And hit someone 100 yards thru the woods thats an accident

If the intended target is a deer and you identify that wrong and shoot. Then you are negligent. If its too dark and your a jackass and shoot your negligent. And a poacher.

If your a ma statie your obviously above the law and you can shoot anything you want with impunity.

It really makes me feel safe this guy is carrying a gun making life and death decisions with it under no and low light conditions. When he cant even id a woman walking dogs from a fxcking deer

 

[ccm75]

Except that isn't an accident, it's premeditation - which you seem to be prone to in this thread? Are you insinuating that the cop actually meant to shoot the nice lady, and her dogs?

He saw his target. He aimed at his target and fired. He hit his intended target.
Absolute moron....