Speer Gold Dots not expanding

[Nectaris]

Anyone else having this issue? I bought 100 rounds of Speer Gold Dot 158gr GDHP for my 357 Magnum. As usual I took the ammo to a friends pistol range at his house to be sure the ammo fed and fired correctly, at the same time I try to capture them by shooting them into gallon milk jugs filled with water. Rounds were fired from a Taurus 627SS with 4" barrel.

Most the rounds I ever did this with were stopped in jugs 3 or 4. I had five lined up and it shot right out of them all. Since I was out of jugs I brought 8 with me the next weekend. Again I shot them and the round passed through all 8 and kept on going. Before the water drained I shot again and the next round passed through the 7 jugs left that still had water in them. My friend had some 55 gallon drums there and we found one that had filled up with rain water. We set that up and shot into that. The round went all the way to the bottom, poked a hole in the bottom of the plastic drum but remained in the drum. For another test case I fired a Federal HST 9mm from my Glock 19 into the drum also. Both rounds were recovered.

Pics of those 2 rounds, Gold Dot on the left, HST on the right:


Something is not right there. I spoke with Speer and they said the party line that "We don't test our rounds in water". Well of course you don't but they should still be expanding in it. The first tech I had on the phone even said that when he shoots them into water balloons it only takes 3-4 to stop the rounds and that they do expand.

I noticed a difference in the rounds when compared next to a Speer Gold Dot Short Barrel for 9mm. GDHP recovered from barrel on left, GDHP-SB on right in magazine:


Also here are some pics of other rounds I have recovered from water jugs:


If anyone else has this ammo, please test it and let me know your results. Oh one more pic of the ammo and lot#:

 

[Hoon]

I only have the 124gr. They're loaded pretty damn hot.

I wouldn't be surprised to see 1500+fps out of my 6".

Unfortunately i havent had the opportunity to see if they expand, but the Jello shooters (ballistics gel) online get good results.

 

[Glockster30]

Can't tell by looking at your photo of the box, but if they are Gold Dot G2 (next generation), others have been complaining about them not expanding even in ballistic gel.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...pqf7D9NxHN99AiQ4A&sig2=fXYhiwECETpyrb-bjqTDPw

 

[Nectaris]

I only have the 124gr. They're loaded pretty damn hot.

I wouldn't be surprised to see 1500+fps out of my 6".

Unfortunately i havent had the opportunity to see if they expand, but the Jello shooters (ballistics gel) online get good results.

I'm wondering if there are some bad batches and I got some of them.

- - - Updated - - -

Can't tell by looking at your photo of the box, but if they are Gold Dot G2 (next generation), others have been complaining about them not expanding even in ballistic gel.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...pqf7D9NxHN99AiQ4A&sig2=fXYhiwECETpyrb-bjqTDPw

No where on the box does it say G2 so how would I know? The product number and lot number are there but not sure how to see if that is G2 or not. I see the box pictured in your link and mine looks nothing like that.

 

[Glockster30]

I'm wondering if there are some bad batches and I got some of them.

- - - Updated - - -



No where on the box does it say G2 so how would I know? The product number and lot number are there but not sure how to see if that is G2 or not. I see the box pictured in your link and mine looks nothing like that.

If it doesn't say G2 Next Generation on the box, then then they are not G2. As you indicated, could be a bad batch. Try a different batch.

 

[Nectaris]

If it doesn't say G2 Next Generation on the box, then then they are not G2. As you indicated, could be a bad batch. Try a different batch.

No one gives refunds on ammo remember. Am I supposed to just keep buying the stuff until I get a good batch and throw the rest away? Plus no one around my neck of the woods carries this stuff which means i have to buy online and pay s/h. How am I to know what lot number I'll be getting so I know it's a different batch?

 

[Glockster30]

No one gives refunds on ammo remember. Am I supposed to just keep buying the stuff until I get a good batch and throw the rest away? Plus no one around my neck of the woods carries this stuff which means i have to buy online and pay s/h. How am I to know what lot number I'll be getting so I know it's a different batch?

Well, not quite true. I had a 100 count box of Federal Target 12 gauge where four rounds of the 100 failed to fire. The primer dents were the same as in the fired hulls. Since this happened in a Trap match, I contacted Federal and they asked me to send them the 4 unfired shells at their cost. They never told me if the shells were bad, but they did send me another 100-round box at no cost.

The lot numbers are usually on the inside of the box (at least they were on the Federal), so there is no way to know if you are getting a different batch by buying online. Do you know any other shooters that might have some for you to try?

 

[Nectaris]

Well, not quite true. I had a 100 count box of Federal Target 12 gauge where four rounds of the 100 failed to fire. The primer dents were the same as in the fired hulls. Since this happened in a Trap match, I contacted Federal and they asked me to send them the 4 unfired shells at their cost. They never told me if the shells were bad, but they did send me another 100-round box at no cost.

The lot numbers are usually on the inside of the box (at least they were on the Federal), so there is no way to know if you are getting a different batch by buying online. Do you know any other shooters that might have some for you to try?

I already contacted Speer and they will not replace the rounds. They want me to ship them 5 rounds to test but I haven't found the time to get to fedex or ups yet, plus that is more $ out of my pocket on these crap rounds.

I don't know of anyone else who has these which is why I came here to ask.

 

[Glockster30]

Federal paid for me to ship the 4 rounds back to them, so I don't know what to tell you.

Here is a link where someone used the same rounds in 10% calibrated ballistic gel with expansion results (all were good), out of a 686 with 4" barrel in February 2013.

http://mousegunaddict.blogspot.com/2013/02/speer-gold-dot-357-magnum-158-grain.html

BTW, the photo in the link shows the Lot # on the outside of the box.

 

[Nectaris]

I don't doubt 2.5 years ago they got good results. Gold Dots wouldn't have earned the reputation they have if they were not good rounds. That is why I am asking if people are having issues with their current or recently purchased ammo.

The photo I posted? In my photo the part number is on the outside of the flap but the lot number is on the tab that folds inside the box.

 

[drgrant]

My guess is you're the first person that spotted this because nobody carries 158s in a .357 unless its a woods gun or something. 125 is better for 2 legged critters. The 158s should still expand in water, though!

-Mike

 

[Nectaris]

I like the heavier rounds out of the 9 but from doing some more reading today I am seeing some test results favoring the 125gr.

 

[Glockster30]

I don't doubt 2.5 years ago they got good results. Gold Dots wouldn't have earned the reputation they have if they were not good rounds. That is why I am asking if people are having issues with their current or recently purchased ammo.

The photo I posted? In my photo the part number is on the outside of the flap but the lot number is on the tab that folds inside the box.

The photo in the link that I gave you.

 

[92G]

If they are willing to test 5 rds then send them 5rds. Im sure if defective they will refund or replace ur bad batch.

im not sure what you can expect from a manufacturer if you dont allow them to test their allegedly defective product.

 

[Len-2A Training]

I don't doubt 2.5 years ago they got good results. Gold Dots wouldn't have earned the reputation they have if they were not good rounds. That is why I am asking if people are having issues with their current or recently purchased ammo.

The photo I posted? In my photo the part number is on the outside of the flap but the lot number is on the tab that folds inside the box.

According to a Fed'l agent friend of mine, the Feds did get a bad batch of Gold Dots (9mm). I know nothing more than that, since I didn't ask what the issues were.

 

[grey]

My guess is you're the first person that spotted this because nobody carries 158s in a .357 unless its a woods gun or something. 125 is better for 2 legged critters. The 158s should still expand in water, though!

-Mike

This was my first thought, but I don't have a .357. In my other calibers, lighter weight always means better expansion. The only reason to go with heavier weight is for penetration, right? Besides long distance (and that can vary), my .38 +p 95 gr are borderline explosive. 180gr .44 mag hollow points have never let a deer take more than one step, and sometimes shot placement wasnt that great. Those rounds may be for windshield penetration, heavy clothing, etc. Why not ask Speer?

 

[Bdh821]

I've shot gold dots in all variants of 9mm into water jugs and have never had that issue. I'm post brought 0 value to the OP..

 

[Nectaris]

If they are willing to test 5 rds then send them 5rds. Im sure if defective they will refund or replace ur bad batch.

im not sure what you can expect from a manufacturer if you dont allow them to test their allegedly defective product.

Not sure where you got the idea I wasnt going to send them 5 rounds, I specifically said I just hadnt gotten a chance to yet.

 

[DW357]

I've never shot the Speer gold dot 357s before. But I did do some informal ballistic testing back in the spring with my reloads and my 5" Coonan 1911.
Zero 158 gr JHP bullet
14.7 gr 2400
Standard primer

The Zero bullets aren't made for defensive/expansion applications really, more for accuracy. But my reloads punched through 4 water jugs then landed on the ground next to the 4th jug (just my luck lol). Got pretty good expansion.
View attachment 148631
View attachment 148630
View attachment 148632

Also tested some Buffalo Bore 125 gr JHPs. Damn those are hot! Here is the Buffalo Bore 125 (on the right) next to the Zero 158.
View attachment 148633

Maybe get some Buffalo Bore 357 mag? I haven't shot water jugs with the BB 158s yet. Pricy but loaded much hotter than I'm willing to try myself.

 

[joseph]

Look here at post # 21 + #57:

http://forum.gon.com/showthread.php?t=203358&highlight=acp+gold+dot

 

[Len-2A Training]

I remember buying bulk Gold Dots (500/box) at Four Seasons, all marked "NOT for Law Enforcement use" due to the fact that they failed some quality control tests. No idea what the problem was but they were sold as higher end plinking ammo. I think it was 10+ years ago. So I guess they have had some problems here and there.

 

[Nectaris]

I was curious so I asked Speer if they were possibly phasing in the G2 bullets into boxes labeled as original Gold Dots but that doesn't seem to be the case. Here is their response: "There are NO G2 bullets in ANY 357 Mag loads, not even developed in that caliber yet."

 

[drgrant]

I remember buying bulk Gold Dots (500/box) at Four Seasons, all marked "NOT for Law Enforcement use" due to the fact that they failed some quality control tests. No idea what the problem was but they were sold as higher end plinking ammo. I think it was 10+ years ago. So I guess they have had some problems here and there.

Those were usually because of suspect primers more than anthing else. i never once had one fail to fire though.