State legalized marijuana + gun registration = Confiscation

ok but that doesn't make any sense. The more states that legalize without having any trouble, the better the case to be made at the fed level.

So sanctuary states are doing the right thing? The point is, if something is banned across the nation, how does local law preempt it?
The negative side, is cases like this thread. It creates situations that trap people.
 
ok but that doesn't make any sense. The more states that legalize without having any trouble, the better the case to be made at the fed level.

Think about that statement while replacing "legalize weed" with "restrict firearms".
The NRA's, and fellow gun owners, abandonment of certain states baffles me for this reason.
 
Think about that statement while replacing "legalize weed" with "restrict firearms".
The NRA's, and fellow gun owners, abandonment of certain states baffles me for this reason.

Its because the majority of the population in some of those states allow the BS to happen. Mass is not a crap hole because its "abandoned" by the NRA. Its a crap hole because there are enough people here that are ok and even love these laws and not enough people here that make a stink about them - THEN vote out the politicians that pass the crap.
 
This is the start of a great legal argument to bring suit. Get a card, don't actually buy weed and turn around to sue government when they try to hamstring you.

Someone will probably come along to update, but I believe there have already been cases like this, and they've already failed. I had the same argument, too- like why the f*** is the presence of the card presence of use? I guess the court argument is "it demonstrates intent".

-Mike
 
Just don't ever use a credit or debit card at a pot shop.

AFAIK theres not a single dispensary/pot shop in america that takes plastic anyways so its kinda hard to do that. Banks get pissy if you come right out and say "WE SELLIN WEED!!!" Some of them will set up an ATM outside the building or direct customers to one at an adjacent business....

-Mike
 
AFAIK theres not a single dispensary/pot shop in america that takes plastic anyways so its kinda hard to do that. Banks get pissy if you come right out and say "WE SELLIN WEED!!!" Some of them will set up an ATM outside the building or direct customers to one at an adjacent business....

-Mike
 
Someone will probably come along to update, but I believe there have already been cases like this, and they've already failed. I had the same argument, too- like why the f*** is the presence of the card presence of use? I guess the court argument is "it demonstrates intent".

-Mike

Yes there is the 9th circuit already ruled, in 2016, that mere possession of a card makes you prohibited. HI is in the 9th circuit. So technically due process is being followed here.

Yesterday a federal appeals court ruled that banning gun sales to people who hold medical marijuana cards, whether or not they actually use marijuana, does not violate their Second Amendment rights. In reaching that conclusion, the U.S. Court of Appeals for the 9th Circuit relied on antiquated, scientifically unsupportable assumptions about the violent tendencies of cannabis consumers.

The case, Wilson v. Lynch, involves a Nevada woman, Rowan Wilson, who in 2011 tried to buy a firearm from a gun shop in Mound House, a tiny town in Lyon County, but was turned away because the owner, Frederick Hauser, knew she had recently obtained a medical marijuana registry card from the state Department of Health and Human Services. Hauser had just received a letter from the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives (ATF) that said anyone who uses marijuana as a medicine, "regardless of whether his or her State has passed legislation authorizing marijuana use for medicinal purposes," qualifies as an "unlawful user of a controlled substance" and is therefore forbidden to buy or possess guns under 18 USC 922. The ATF added that "if you are aware that the potential transferee is in possession of a card authorizing the possession and use of
marijuana under State law, then you have 'reasonable cause to believe' that the person is an unlawful user of a controlled substance," meaning "you may not transfer firearms or ammunition to the person." Since violating that edict is a felony punishable by up to 10 years in prison, Hauser was understandably reluctant to sell Wilson a gun.

The 9th Circuit concedes that the ATF's reading of 18 USC 922(d)(3) "directly burden[s Wilson's] core Second Amendment right to possess a firearm" but says the burden "is not severe," since she could have bought a gun before registering as a medical marijuana patient and could regain her right to buy a gun by "surrendering her registry card." The court therefore applies "intermediate scrutiny," which requires "(1) the government's stated objective to be significant, substantial, or important; and (2) a reasonable fit between the challenged regulation and the asserted objective." Since Wilson concedes that the government's interest in preventing gun violence is substantial, the only question is whether a rule preventing people like her from buying guns is a reasonable way of accomplishing that goal.

The truth is that all of these disqualifying criteria are unfair and unreasonable, especially since they do not necessarily tell us anything about a would-be gun buyer's violent tendencies. One advantage that illegal drug users have over "felons and mentally ill people" is that the federal government usually has no way of knowing which intoxicants they prefer. In Wilson's case, the gun dealer happened to know she was a medical marijuana patient. That will not be the case for the vast majority of medical marijuana users, even in the states that require registration. Recreational users are even less visible. So although they are notionally barred from buying or possessing firearms, they generally can do so in practice, either by lying on ATF Form 4473, which asks about illegal drug use, or by obtaining a gun from someone who is not a federally licensed dealer and is therefore not required to use the form.

Still, dodging the government's arbitrary restrictions on Second Amendment rights is legally perilous. A prohibited person commits a felony by owning a gun, buying a gun, or lying on Form 4473. So does anyone who sells or lends him a gun if he has reason to know the recipient is not allowed to have one. The likelihood that your average pot smoker will be arrested for committing these felonies is currently remote, since there is no central database of illegal drug users and it is impossible to monitor transactions that don't go through licensed dealers. But if politicians like Hillary Clinton have their way, the database of people who are legally disqualified from owning guns will be "improved" (e.g., by adding the names of federal employees or job applicants who fail drug tests), and every transaction will require a form and a background check. So even though Clinton says pot smokers don't belong in prison, that is where she wants to send them if they dare to exercise their constitutional rights.

http://reason.com/blog/2016/09/01/9th-circuit-says-medical-marijuana-cardh
 
i wonder if when you walk in, they ask to see your ID card (drivers license, etc) to verify age.....do they record that info, or just look and forget it?
 
the burden "is not severe," since she could have bought a gun before registering as a medical marijuana patient and could regain her right to buy a gun by "surrendering her registry card."

So MMJ card holders need only surrender their MMJ card, and not their firearms then. Problem solved.
 
I believe pot shops are barred from the banking system anyway
no. it would be impossible for a business to not have a bank account. They probably have a shit ton of idiotic red tape to jump through though.

well, I should clarify, obviously there are some small cash only businesses, but they only operate that way to cheat taxes, they still have vendors to pay, which would likely require at least a checking account.

A lot of banks won't touch certain businesses (drugs, porn, etc) but there are plenty smaller banks and credit unions that will.
 
no. it would be impossible for a business to not have a bank account. They probably have a shit ton of idiotic red tape to jump through though.

Well, they have a bank account, but I can guarantee it ain't going to be "Joes weed dispensary LLC" it's probably some weirdly named LLC or other front company that supposedly does something legitimate, but doesn't really, but they still pay taxes on the "income" from it, etc.

-Mike
 
AFAIK theres not a single dispensary/pot shop in america that takes plastic anyways so its kinda hard to do that. Banks get pissy if you come right out and say "WE SELLIN WEED!!!" Some of them will set up an ATM outside the building or direct customers to one at an adjacent business....

-Mike

Patriot Care in Boston:

Please note, at present we only accept cash as a payment type. We are working towards accepting debit cards in the future and will update this website as soon as the capability is in place.


My guess is they're having trouble finding a card processor that isn't a bitch....Card processors' corp. lawyers are probably just inventing horseshit liability. I don't think banks really have a problem taking in "dirty" money as long as they can prove they're following AML laws. Usually "sin" businesses are just risk rated higher in banking and charged fees to help offset that risk.
 
Well, they have a bank account, but I can guarantee it ain't going to be "Joes weed dispensary LLC" it's probably some weirdly named LLC or other front company that supposedly does something legitimate, but doesn't really, but they still pay taxes on the "income" from it, etc.

-Mike

yes you're right about that too. Prob some holding company. But the banks aren't stupid. We have to know the source of funds when we open business accts here. All our shit is shell companies in the caymans, but we easily get to the root of it.

They could open "Joe's Holdco LLC" but the bank will know where the money is really coming from. The Bank Secrecy Act and PATRIOT Act make it almost impossible to conceal the actual source of funds (unless you're a fairly sophisticated money launderer). To hide it you'd almost have to literally launder it...Like Joe's Holdco LLC owns Joe's Weed Emporium. Joe's Weed Emporium spends 100% of it's income getting it's lawn cut by "Joes Grass Co" who by total coincidence happens to also be a wholly owned subsidiary of Joe's Holdco. And even a community bank would probably see through that in 2 seconds.
 
AFAIK theres not a single dispensary/pot shop in america that takes plastic anyways so its kinda hard to do that. Banks get pissy if you come right out and say "WE SELLIN WEED!!!" Some of them will set up an ATM outside the building or direct customers to one at an adjacent business....

-Mike

NETA takes plastic apparently:
'We accept cash as well as any debit or credit card that has a PIN. Most people know their debit card PIN but not everyone knows their credit card PIN. If you would like to utilize your credit card, we would encourage you to contact your credit card company to set up a PIN beforehand. Our system works like an ATM, so generally if your card works at an ATM, it should also work at our dispensary. And again, there is always cash.'
 
I have a coworker with a medical card and he also wants to get his LTC and has asked me how. I told him he may as well forget it unless he wants to perjure himself...which he could easily get away with if he obtained his "anxiety medicine" the old fashioned way but it would be hard to defend against when your name and smiling picture is in a f***ing .gov database.

.

His having a MMJ card won’t prohibit him from getting an LTC in MA however he would be wise not to buy guns from a dealer and fill out a 4473. He’ll have no problem buying guns from a private party in MA since there’s no 4473 nor any questions re MMJ.
 
If more and more states legalize, we could possibly have the strongest 10th Amendment case in history. No one has ever challenged the Controlled Substances Act in the SCOTUS.
 
An expensive route would be to get tested daily by a place like a Quest Diagnostics proving you are not an illegal user of MJ until they decide to hamstring you. Make sure you don’t settle.


I like your thought of Quest Diagnostics, I have worked for them for 37 years, they would be happy to do the testing
 
no. it would be impossible for a business to not have a bank account. They probably have a shit ton of idiotic red tape to jump through though.

well, I should clarify, obviously there are some small cash only businesses, but they only operate that way to cheat taxes, they still have vendors to pay, which would likely require at least a checking account.

A lot of banks won't touch certain businesses (drugs, porn, etc) but there are plenty smaller banks and credit unions that will.
False. Wife’s cousin did tons of electrical work for medical mj place down in ma, paid cash. Tons of cash. It’s cash only. Must have cost a fortune to setup this building from all the equipment he described, hvac systems like crazy, expensive hid lighting that can be lowered and then raises electrically as plants grow, etc.

I don’t know much about it but I have heard that lots of former politicians are investors in these places. They have stupid money they didn’t earn and nobody will give them grief.
 
So sanctuary states are doing the right thing? The point is, if something is banned across the nation, how does local law preempt it?
The negative side, is cases like this thread. It creates situations that trap people.

states rights and the 10th amendment.

Probably 90% of federal laws and regulations should be left to the states.

Immigration and "sancuary" cities/states are different for obvious reasons. The Fed gov has a legit claim on the power to control immigration. The Fed Gov does not have, under any reasonable reading of the constitution, a legitimate claim to regulate what plants people ingest.
 
False. Wife’s cousin did tons of electrical work for medical mj place down in ma, paid cash. Tons of cash. It’s cash only. Must have cost a fortune to setup this building from all the equipment he described, hvac systems like crazy, expensive hid lighting that can be lowered and then raises electrically as plants grow, etc.

I don’t know much about it but I have heard that lots of former politicians are investors in these places. They have stupid money they didn’t earn and nobody will give them grief.

yes that makes sense. Small businesses like electrcians and plumbers love to cheat their taxes (I don't blame them, everyone should cheat as much as they can). Taking cash makes it easy to not report income to Leviathan. So there are certainly vendors who will accept cash, usually other small businesses. But anyone of these businesses with larger vendors (real estate REITs from whom they rent their space, insurers etc) probably don't. So while it may be easy for a legit business to be "cash only" when facing customers, that doesn't mean they have no bank. They do.

For example there's a small deli in Boston I like to hit for lunch. Cash only. But i see a big Sysco truck come by weekly to drop off food. I highly doubt the Sysco driver is accepting an envelope of cash for all the wholesale food they drop off.
 
His having a MMJ card won’t prohibit him from getting an LTC in MA however he would be wise not to buy guns from a dealer and fill out a 4473. He’ll have no problem buying guns from a private party in MA since there’s no 4473 nor any questions re MMJ.

Does the ATF have a system in place to cross check 4473s against state med weed card databases?
 
In Colorado, the dispensaries take cash only, most have an ATM inside or nearby. The state has been trying to set up credit unions or similar bank like operations in order to simplify the banking issues for the dispensaries (both medical and recreational) but it's been problematic based on federal law and the uncertainty of which way the legal winds may blow. By necessity there are games played with business entities to handle the cash and the bills (taxes, rent, utilities, etc).

Some place in Colorado don't allow recreational sales, only medical sales- Colorado Springs being the most notable example. Pot sold to medical card holders is taxed at a much lower rate than recreational sales. Medical only stores are very strict in that only those persons who have a medical card are allowed into the shop. All pot stores in Colorado have two parts- the front room where your id is checked (over 21 or a medical card depending on the store) then you are allowed into the room where the pot is kept and you can make your purchase.

Our sheriff does have a warning for those applying for a CCW that a medical pot card is a statutory prohibitor for firearms ownership and for a CCW. For your CCW the state does run a background check, but I don't know if they cross reference the medical card database.

The electronic 4473 my LGS uses does state that pot use is federally illegal despite what state law says. In addition to the federal brady check, Colorado does a state records check on firearm purchases, but again I don't know if they cross check the medical card database.
 
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