State Police Issuance?

[BingoDingo18]

Hello folks, got a question for ya....
So as stupid as this sounds is it possible to go to the state police to get issued a LTC instead of dealing with your local chief thats a real dink?

 

[GM-GUY]

State Police on issue to Non-Residents, sorry have to deal with the bersmoigen.

 

[milktree]

Sure, move to any other state and get a non-resident LTC; they're handled by the state police.

 

[Billy]

Would the Utah permit help? Getting this is good in 35? Can that help persuade your Cheif? My town is friendly just throwing ideas out there.

 

[ColdDayInHell]

Would the Utah permit help? Getting this is good in 35? Can that help persuade your Cheif? My town is friendly just throwing ideas out there.

Doesn't help whatsoever. The non-resident Utah permit gives you reciprocity only in these states :

Alabama, Alaska, Arizona, Arkansas, Delaware, Georgia, Idaho, Indiana, Iowa, Kentucky, Louisiana, Minnesota, Mississippi, Missouri, Montana, Nebraska, North Carolina, North Dakota, Ohio, Oklahoma, Pennsylvania, South Dakota, Tennessee, Texas, Utah, Utah, Vermont, Virginia, Washington, West Virginia, Wisconsin, Wyoming

Refer your carry questions here:http://www.usacarry.com/concealed_carry_permit_reciprocity_maps.html

 

[BingoDingo18]

Well I had to go to court to get my Class A LTC and the Chief actually couldent give a reason as to denying me other than he can do what he want, but my lawyer and the towns lawyer made a deal that I get my LTC-A restricted for 1 year to "Target and Hunting" or If I got a job requiring it he would take the restrictions off. Well I got offered a job as a police officer and I have a leter from the dept asking him to take my restrictions off and the chief in my town said he doesnt rememeber agreeing to anything and he wont drop the restrictions. So I wanted to know if I could surrender my LTC and ask the MSP to issue me a new one. Just a thought and I dont feel like paying for a lawyer again......

 

[That Guy]

I thought police officers could carry on their badge and didn't require an LTC?

And just so I am clear - the CoP in your town won't give an LTC to a police officer? Does he carry a gun off duty?

 

[ColdDayInHell]

I thought police officers could carry on their badge and didn't require an LTC?

And just so I am clear - the CoP in your town won't give an LTC to a police officer? Does he carry a gun off duty?

My city requires you to have an unrestricted LTC to even apply as a police officer. You still need your LTC to carry as a police officer, unless the law has been changed.

 

[BingoDingo18]

I thought police officers could carry on their badge and didn't require an LTC?


And just so I am clear - the CoP in your town won't give an LTC to a police officer? Does he carry a gun off duty?

I've only heard of that for Boston and Fed's. I was told that I need a "none" or "employment" restriction before I can statrt work.

Yea can you believe this? This is the most rediculous thing I've ever heard. I should find a lawyer to take this on a contingency and sue the crap out of this town. It will be about the 8th time hes been sued this year, 2 of the 8 were from his own officers in federal court.

 

[ColdDayInHell]

That's strange that your chief won't give you an LTC if you've been given the job as PO, something doesn't add up here...

 

[pdm]

I've only heard of that for Boston and Fed's. I was told that I need a "none" or "employment" restriction before I can statrt work.

Yea can you believe this? This is the most rediculous thing I've ever heard. I should find a lawyer to take this on a contingency and sue the crap out of this town. It will be about the 8th time hes been sued this year, 2 of the 8 were from his own officers in federal court.

Can't the town employing you issue the license to you?

 

[BingoDingo18]

Can't the town employing you issue the license to you?

By law yes, but they wont be stepping on toes.

 

[Len-2A Training]

Well I had to go to court to get my Class A LTC and the Chief actually couldent give a reason as to denying me other than he can do what he want, but my lawyer and the towns lawyer made a deal that I get my LTC-A restricted for 1 year to "Target and Hunting" or If I got a job requiring it he would take the restrictions off. Well I got offered a job as a police officer and I have a leter from the dept asking him to take my restrictions off and the chief in my town said he doesnt rememeber agreeing to anything and he wont drop the restrictions. So I wanted to know if I could surrender my LTC and ask the MSP to issue me a new one. Just a thought and I dont feel like paying for a lawyer again......

Those agreements SHOULD always be put in writing. I know that it is hind-sight now, but people have a tendency to "forget" what they agreed to when it is convenient to them to do so. My late chief did this to me and we went thru >6 months when we weren't speaking to one another except on official business and I refused to visit him at the station anymore (and I had been chatting with him 3-4x/week in his office on a regular basis prior to his "forgetting" our agreement from when I was appointed . . . that I didn't have to work town meeting since I was also a committee chair and the town moderator wouldn't let me speak if I was in uniform).

No, it must be issued only by the chief in the town you live in OR the town you OWN a business in, per MGL. Chiefs CAN issue to their own officers regardless of where the officer lives. However in your case, you'd have to get your current LTC "expired early" in order for anyone else to issue you an unrestricted LTC and it sounds like he is such a jerk that he'd refuse to do that too.

I thought police officers could carry on their badge and didn't require an LTC?

And just so I am clear - the CoP in your town won't give an LTC to a police officer? Does he carry a gun off duty?

Yes, per MGL POs can carry on the badge. MCOPA and friends at EOPS are being less kind at "re-interpreting" this law/exemption and thus most towns demand you also have a LTC as well.

Most chiefs and POs in MA do NOT carry off-duty. Many PDs put policies in place intentionally to "dissuade" officers from doing so or severely restricting their ability to do so.

My city requires you to have an unrestricted LTC to even apply as a police officer. You still need your LTC to carry as a police officer, unless the law has been changed.

Au contra ire, the law exempting police has been on the books for >40 years that I'm aware of. EOPS has been "re-interpreting" it to be extremely restrictive however.

Can't the town employing you issue the license to you?

Yes, some won't and he'd need to get his current one "expired early". See my comments on this above.


Best of luck to the OP. You are getting an early start to seeing the ugly even amongst the Thin Blue Line towards their own!

 

[perry1386]

So I started reading this thread saying to myself, "hey I can answer some of these questions, cool". Then along comes LenS and of course does a phenomenal job answering every question asked far better then I ever would.

Excellent information as usual sir, glad to have you here and on our side!

 

[SamH]

I thought police officers could carry on their badge and didn't require an LTC?

This is only allowed while on dutyand/or in the process of official police business , but, no officer will arrest another officer carrying on his personal time.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

Yea can you believe this? This is the most rediculous thing I've ever heard. I should find a lawyer to take this on a contingency and sue the crap out of this town.

I would be VERY surprised if you were able to find an attorney who would take an LTC restriction on a contingency fee basis. There have been cases of denials and restrictions being overturned (rare, but it happens), but I've never heard of one that was accompanied by any financial damages.

 

[TayNinh_66]

Well I had to go to court to get my Class A LTC ... Just a thought and I dont feel like paying for a lawyer again......

I'd pay the lawyer again. Once your atty files, town atty will negotiate a settlement. Put it in writing this time. Chalk it up to the cost of obtaining a good job. You would have to file a civil tort for damages, but as there aren't any monetary damages yet, you wouldn't be able to recover anything.

 

[colt_fan]

Uhm check with the lawyer that made the deal for documentation. Any lawyer with their salt documents anything and everything.

 

[jkommelb]

This is only allowed while on dutyand/or in the process of official police business , but, no officer will arrest another officer carrying on his personal time.

Federal law (HR218, or "Law Enforcement Officer's Safety Act) allows sworn officers meeting a specific set of criteria to carry off duty in the entire country, and it's written to specifically supersede state law as well as departmental policy. A department can refuse to hire you if you don't have an LTC, but once they swear you in, you're good to go.

 

[SamH]

double tap

 

[drgrant]

State Police on issue to Non-Residents, sorry have to deal with the bersmoigen.

This hasn't been the case in MA for years. Now EOPS/CJIS is the issuing authority for nonres permits. MSP has nothing to do with it anymore.

-Mike

- - - Updated - - -

Are you ****ing kidding me? Please PM me what town so I know never to move there.

I would bet nearly anything it's Watertown. Watertown has basically told both active and retired LEOS to go **** themselves when they went there to get an unrestricted LTC. Next guess after that is probably Canton.

-Mike

 

[drgrant]

I thought police officers could carry on their badge and didn't require an LTC?

MGL allows for this but carrying on the badge is pretty much worthless. You can't even buy ammo in MA without an LTC, not even with a badge. So a LEO that wants to have something other than his duty handgun has to get an
LTC.

-Mike

 

[OfficerObie59]

This is only allowed while on dutyand/or in the process of official police business , but, no officer will arrest another officer carrying on his personal time.

Please point out for me in MGL ch. 41, s. 98 where badge carry is limited to on duty carry only. I think you're confusing carrying on the badge with the AWB and magazine capacity exceptions that EOPSS recently interpreted to be applicable to on-duty use only.

As others have said, practically, "carrying on the badge" is done much less than it used to be. Most police departments require officers to have LTC's by policy and per case law can actually fire officers who become prohibited from possessing an LTC, even if that prohibition happens as a result of legislative action that makes one prohibited 25 years after the conduct. See Wheeler v. Town of Franklin: http://masscases.com/cases/app/52/52massappct631.html

Carrying on the badge also only applies to weapons the chief of police authorizes one to use. This may or may not include privately owned weapons. Basically, if your duty gun is a full-size M&P .45 and that's all your chief has authorized you to carry, concealed carry of your personally owner LC9 much be done pursuant to the officers own LTC. It's worth noting that 41/98 says "weapons" and not firearms, so the jury is out on whether chiefs may allow officers to carry weapons without specific police exceptions (other than Tasers, for example, as 140/131J has a specific LE exception), such a dangerous weapons per se under 269/10j. Again, I think such a question is mostly academic as most chiefs would be concerned about liability (whether or not it actually exists) of officers carrying outlawed weapons.