Stripped Lower Storage Requirements

[wolfenkraft]

Hey all you fine folks.

Here's a question, I've got a stripped AR-15 lower, I don't have an upper for it yet, so I'm just leaving it stripped, no LPK or anything.

I know I don't need to file an FA-10 until it can actually shoot, but do I have to treat it like an actual firearm for locked storage laws? I don't want to put it in my safe unfinished for fear of breaking off the trigger guard ears or something with one of my other rifles.

So, I guess the question boils down to, can I leave it in the box it came in sitting in my closet, or do I have to lock it up as if it were a finished rifle?

Thanks!

 

[slugworth]

It's serialized to you on the 4473 so I'd lock it up.....

 

[bigblue]

In MA the lower in itself is not a firearm nor a component. What you have according to state law is simply a chunk of metal with a convenient number on it. As long as there is no functioning upper half to pair it with in the vicinity you are fine.

There is no need to lock that up until you assemble it into a firearm. At this point you will need to file the FA10 and lock it up.

**I am not a lawyer and this is not to be construed as legal advice.**

 

[MisterHappy]

As big blue says, it does not meet the MGLs definition of a "firearm" as it cannot discharge a shot.

 

[IROC403]

as long as it cant get stolen or anything, some could build something out of it and it could get traced back to you, its a long shot but it could happen.

 

[Len-2A Training]

Not required to be locked up but personally what I did with mine was put them on the shelf where I store handguns in the safe. No worries of breaking anything, etc.

 

[dcmdon]

Legally:

1) its a firearm per feds - feds have no storage requirements
2) its not a firearm per MA. So no storage requirements.

With that said. You have an ethical responsibility to keep it from falling into the wrong hands. I'm convinced that a well hidden item like this is safer than if it was put in a $800 safe. Especially if there is a sacrificial "honeypot" safe somewhere in the house.

Don

 

[knfmn]

I would be inclined to keep it locked up. I realize that it's not technically a firearm in MA, but if you got jammed up it would be a colossal pain in the butt, even if you're legal. Totally not worth it.

 

[wolfenkraft]

Thanks for the advice/info everyone. I just finished it with an LPK and stock and put it in the safe. Unfortunately my current safe sucks and isn't very big. When I move in a few months, I'll be buying a much bigger safe.

 

[dcmdon]

I would be inclined to keep it locked up. I realize that it's not technically a firearm in MA, but if you got jammed up it would be a colossal pain in the butt, even if you're legal. Totally not worth it.

I never understood the term "jammed up". You wouldn't get jammed up because its not a firearm. But I agree that it should be locked or hidden for ethical purposes. Again, something as small as a receiver is safer if its hidden than if its in a 300 lb safe.

Don

 

[OnTheRoad]

I don't want to put it in my safe unfinished for fear of breaking off the trigger guard ears or something with one of my other rifles.

Cover it with some bubble wrap and put it in a small box or a padded envelope or the like. From there you can put it in a safe, or a toolbox with a padlock on it, or whatever. No dings, nicks or scrapes.

 

[DemonChronicles]

I use them as paperweights around the house.

 

[Dnotarianni]

Duct tape it to the inside of the door of the safe

 

[Len-2A Training]

I'm not sure why the issue with storage in a safe. Each of my AR stripped lowers came in a box only a bit bigger than a small paperback book. Unless your safe is strictly a one/two handgun safe, there should be plenty of space on a shelf to put the lower safely. Personally I'm not big on leaving "valuables" just laying around. And bubble wrap can cause moisture to accumulate and attack the lower.

 

[wolfenkraft]

I'm not sure why the issue with storage in a safe. Each of my AR stripped lowers came in a box only a bit bigger than a small paperback book. Unless your safe is strictly a one/two handgun safe, there should be plenty of space on a shelf to put the lower safely. Personally I'm not big on leaving "valuables" just laying around. And bubble wrap can cause moisture to accumulate and attack the lower.

Mine didn't come in boxes, they were a 2 pack of anderson stripped lowers for $81 shipped. They came in bubble wrap and yes, my safe is very small, it's only meant for a couple of rifles or shotguns without scopes. After I move to the burbs I'll get a much bigger real safe.

 

[dcmdon]

If that's the case then you probably don't have a very good safe and are better off hiding them.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Point37]

so if you have a fully built lower and a fully built upper you don't have to lock them up as long as they aren't put together?...you can just leave both parts out since it's not assembled as a firearm?...i guess i'm asking when is it technically considered a firearm?

 

[Len-2A Training]

so if you have a fully built lower and a fully built upper you don't have to lock them up as long as they aren't put together?...you can just leave both parts out since it's not assembled as a firearm?...i guess i'm asking when is it technically considered a firearm?

I think that would cause you legal troubles.

 

[Point37]

I think that would cause you legal troubles.

i wouldn't do it but when would it be considered a firearm by law so you would be required to store it as such?...if you field strip a pistol, the frame is the serialized part so is that equivalent to a stripped lower or do all the other moving parts have to be removed?...i mean you can get a full upper mailed to you cause it's just considered parts...at what point does a stripped lower or pistol frame become a firearm?...just curious

 

[dgrafton]

I'm not sure why the issue with storage in a safe. Each of my AR stripped lowers came in a box only a bit bigger than a small paperback book. Unless your safe is strictly a one/two handgun safe, there should be plenty of space on a shelf to put the lower safely. Personally I'm not big on leaving "valuables" just laying around. And bubble wrap can cause moisture to accumulate and attack the lower.

Haha, no room in my safe for even a spare pistol mag!

 

[jasons]

i wouldn't do it but when would it be considered a firearm by law so you would be required to store it as such?...if you field strip a pistol, the frame is the serialized part so is that equivalent to a stripped lower or do all the other moving parts have to be removed?...i mean you can get a full upper mailed to you cause it's just considered parts...at what point does a stripped lower or pistol frame become a firearm?...just curious

Black and white law says it has to be "capable of firing a shot" to be considered a firearm / rifle / shotgun in MA.

https://malegislature.gov/Laws/GeneralLaws/PartI/TitleXX/Chapter140/Section121

“Firearm”, a pistol, revolver or other weapon of any description, loaded or unloaded, from which a shot or bullet can be discharged and of which the length of the barrel or barrels is less than 16 inches or 18 inches in the case of a shotgun as originally manufactured; provided, however, that the term firearm shall not include any weapon that is: (i) constructed in a shape that does not resemble a handgun, short-barreled rifle or short-barreled shotgun including, but not limited to, covert weapons that resemble key-chains, pens, cigarette-lighters or cigarette-packages; or (ii) not detectable as a weapon or potential weapon by x-ray machines commonly used at airports or walk- through metal detectors.

“Rifle”, a weapon having a rifled bore with a barrel length equal to or greater than 16 inches and capable of discharging a shot or bullet for each pull of the trigger.

“Shotgun”, a weapon having a smooth bore with a barrel length equal to or greater than 18 inches with an overall length equal to or greater than 26 inches, and capable of discharging a shot or bullet for each pull of the trigger.

With that in mind I once asked a firearms lawyer if simply taking the bolt carrier group out of an AR and locking just that one part in the safe (and leaving the rest of the gun unlocked) would be legal and he looked at me like I had six heads. It's one of those things that's probably technically legal on paper but probably not real smart to actually try in practice. I bought a bigger safe....

 

[Point37]

thanks...yea i was just curious about how it was written...technically if it's in half it can't fire or a pistol is stripped it can't fire...so if you wanted to work on your lower from time to time and it's all set up in a vice just lock your upper up and you're good "technically" (still wouldn't do any of this)

 

[Len-2A Training]

Black and white law says it has to be "capable of firing a shot" to be considered a firearm / rifle / shotgun in MA.

https://malegislature.gov/Laws/GeneralLaws/PartI/TitleXX/Chapter140/Section121


With that in mind I once asked a firearms lawyer if simply taking the bolt carrier group out of an AR and locking just that one part in the safe (and leaving the rest of the gun unlocked) would be legal and he looked at me like I had six heads. It's one of those things that's probably technically legal on paper but probably not real smart to actually try in practice. I bought a bigger safe....

IIRC there was a court case and the ruling was that if there was a "minor part" missing, it still counted as a firearm. I recall reading about it here, no idea on further info but I'll bet Bob Boudrie can give you the citation.

 

[M1911]

Personally, I would lock it up. Not because the letter of the law requires it but because I do not trust the police or DA to understand or follow the letter of the law.

 

[jasons]

IIRC there was a court case and the ruling was that if there was a "minor part" missing, it still counted as a firearm. I recall reading about it here, no idea on further info but I'll bet Bob Boudrie can give you the citation.

Yeah, I vaguely recall someone talking about a case where an actual bad guy was carrying a pistol with a broken firing or something like that and he still got bagged for unlicensed possession in addition to whatever actual crime he committed. Kind of a tortured interpretation of the law IMHO but that's par for the course around here.

Personally, I would lock it up. Not because the letter of the law requires it but because I do not trust the police or DA to understand or follow the letter of the law.

Or the courts for that matter....

 

[M1911]

Or the courts for that matter....

Given just the most recent example -- the SJC opinion on Tasers -- no, I don't expect MA courts to follow the law. I expect them to make it up as they go, using the solid principle of "guns are bad".

 

[dcmdon]

ITS NOT A FIREARM PER MA LAW!!!!!!!!!

 

[jasons]

ITS NOT A FIREARM PER MA LAW!!!!!!!!!

We're all aware of that, what's your point?

 

[M1911]

ITS NOT A FIREARM PER MA LAW!!!!!!!!!

Yes, I know. But I don't trust the police, district attorney, and court system to either understand that or follow it.

Some years back, Attorney Darius Arbabi told me about one court case that he defended. His properly licensed client was carrying a semi-auto handgun with a 10-round magazine plus 1 in the chamber. He was arrested and charged with carrying an illegal large capacity magazine. The assistant district attorney's claim was that since he was carrying 10 + 1 = 11, that is more than 10 and therefore it was illegal. Seriously.

Now do you understand why I don't trust the MA judicial system to understand that a stripped lower doesn't need to be locked up?

 

[Point37]

^^^wow that's messed up