Stuck with an FID? You might be a federally prohibited person

Thanks to everybody

Just wanted to thank everybody who has provided a lot of great information.
I have decided not to pursue further my quest for the " 2nd amendment" right and privilege as I see-it as a lost cause and eventually a lot of money to be spent with no really a chance of success.

I admit that i made a bad and stupid mistake 10 yrs ago when I had an OUI ( that was my only brush with the law` ) I guess I did not realized the ramification until I’m realizing that the federal Statute and MGL has me as " Prohibited Person" and I will never risk a brush with the law or want to put myself in such situation.

I 'm Sad but I came to peace with my conscience knowing that I can never ever Own or even touch a gun or a rifle or any ammunition / cartridge and I will respect and obey that law.

Thanks again for all the help and information.
 
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Just wanted to thank everybody who has provided a lot of great information.
I have decided not to pursue further my quest for the " 2nd amendment" right and privilege as I see-it as a lost cause and eventually a lot of money to be spent with no really a chance of success.

I admit that i made a bad and stupid mistake 10 yrs ago when I had an OUI ( that was my only brush with the law` ) I guess I did not realized the ramification until I’m realizing that the federal Statute and MGL has me as " Prohibited Person" and I will never risk a brush with the law or want to put myself in such situation.

I 'm Sad but I came to peace with my conscience knowing that I can never ever Own or even touch a gun or a rifle or any ammunition / cartridge and I will respect and obey that law.

Thanks again for all the help and information.

This is a mistake but even if you do this, know that there orgs out there trying to make it easier for you to get back these rights taken from you.

Case in point. A ruling from today in Ohio.
http://volokh.com/2010/12/08/the-se...-drug-misdemeanor-convictions/comment-page-1/
 
I've just been told that this is "intentional" in the regard that the TPTB are not going to change the way they do business.

One rational reason I was given was that a PP can still posses black powder and thus can buy/possess legally with that FID.

Of course this is still totally inane. There's really no good reason to require a state issued license to posses ammunition or components.
 
Of course this is still totally inane.

It gets better. There's a criminal penalty (and lifetime LTC DQ) for a CLEO who issues an LTC in violation of MGL, but none for issuing an FID contrary to MGL, which is obviously being done. However, it is very likely that CLEO's can be held civilly liable for issuing an FID to someone who's federally prohibited.
 
This is a mistake but even if you do this, know that there orgs out there trying to make it easier for you to get back these rights taken from you.

Case in point. A ruling from today in Ohio.
http://volokh.com/2010/12/08/the-se...-drug-misdemeanor-convictions/comment-page-1/


Hi,

After reading some of the Post I’m having second thoughts and I feel that I should fight for my Second Amendment Rights?

Here is my Dilemma :

I have an OUI on my records and The CORI has been sealed by the Office of the Probation ( 10 yrs have elapsed and I never had any problem with the law)

I live in a Metro west community and they are listed as Green.

So what will make more sense for me ?

1) I cannot petition the Firearm Licensing Review Board unless I can show them that I had a Denial from my Local PD due to my previous misdemeanor .

2) I cannot apply for a LTC because of my conviction of a OUI or should I apply for the LTC ( knowing I will get automaticly denied for “ suitability” due to a Misdemeanor record for OUI ) and then use the Denial letter to petition the FLRB?

3) Should I Apply for FID since it’s a “ shall Issue” wait to receive the approval and then Petition the Review Board and Hope I can get a favorable decision to lift the Federal Prohibition .

Any information or input will be appreciated
 
Hi,

After reading some of the Post I’m having second thoughts and I feel that I should fight for my Second Amendment Rights?

Here is my Dilemma :

I have an OUI on my records and The CORI has been sealed by the Office of the Probation ( 10 yrs have elapsed and I never had any problem with the law)

I live in a Metro west community and they are listed as Green.

So what will make more sense for me ?

1) I cannot petition the Firearm Licensing Review Board unless I can show them that I had a Denial from my Local PD due to my previous misdemeanor .

2) I cannot apply for a LTC because of my conviction of a OUI or should I apply for the LTC ( knowing I will get automaticly denied for “ suitability” due to a Misdemeanor record for OUI ) and then use the Denial letter to petition the FLRB?

3) Should I Apply for FID since it’s a “ shall Issue” wait to receive the approval and then Petition the Review Board and Hope I can get a favorable decision to lift the Federal Prohibition .

Any information or input will be appreciated

PM me with your contact info. We will take this offline.
 
I've just been told that this is "intentional" in the regard that the TPTB are not going to change the way they do business.

One rational reason I was given was that a PP can still posses black powder and thus can buy/possess legally with that FID.

TPTB? PP?
 
Hi,


2) I cannot apply for a LTC because of my conviction of a OUI or should I apply for the LTC ( knowing I will get automaticly denied for “ suitability” due to a Misdemeanor record for OUI ) and then use the Denial letter to petition the FLRB?

It isnt suitability that prohibits you, it is statutory DQ.
 
Getting ready to start the process

So I called my Local Police Department Firearms Licensing officer and explained my situation ( OUI from 1999 ) he said to go directly to the board and fill a petition as I would be wasting money to fill with them a FID or LTC as it will be denied and he was verry nice and he said that he failed my pain and if it was not that OUI then he would not have any issue with FID and LTC application. so there is some hope in the horizon
so I'm getting ready to fill the petition and get it notarized and pay the fee.
At this point not sure if I need to have a lawyer.
Will keep my finger crossed
 
Comm2A has indicated recently that a favorable FLRB decision is insufficient to remove a Federal prohibition...

...If you have a post 1994 MA DUI conviction then you are federal disqualified for life unless you get a governor's pardon with specific restoration of gun rights.

Furthermore, the BATFE does NOT recognize a FLRB (MA Firearms Licensing Review Board) restoration of rights, and will NOT remove a disqualifying conviction from the NICS record check database, or overturn a NICS denial, even if you prove the offense that DQed you is one for which the FLRB has issued a state level rights restoration...

When did the FLRB route become ineffective?

Word about this has started to get out within the past year (perhaps sooner, but I may have missed it). The FBI and BATFE has been cagey about this and reluctant to issue a statement clarifying all aspects of their "prohibited person" interpretation and is just "doing things" that indicate a broad and expansive view if the prohibited person concept. Word on the street is that there has not been any effort given to prosecuting persons with FLRB relief as felons in possession, however, there have been cases where someone denied via NICS filed a NICS denial appeal, provided proof that the FLRB restored their rights, and lost the NICS appeal. The feds position is that the FLRB is not a "governor's pardon" and therefore does not count...

http://www.northeastshooters.com/vbulletin/threads/132429-DUI-Loss-of-LTC

I would contact Comm2A for clarification before proceeding with your FLRB appeal.
 
Comm2A has indicated recently that a favorable FLRB decision is insufficient to remove a Federal prohibition...



http://www.northeastshooters.com/vbulletin/threads/132429-DUI-Loss-of-LTC

I would contact Comm2A for clarification before proceeding with your FLRB appeal.

Do contact Comm2A, but do also continue with the FLRB process.

You don't NEED a lawyer but they can come in handy sometime --and sometimes lawyers make things worse--, but if you clean up well, are articulate and aren't a degenerate mouth breather, you should be OK on your own. The board even counsels this so I am just repeating what they say. Our number is at the comm2a website.
 
Well now i'm getting conflicting report
Maybe I should just forget about it. If the Board does not lif the Fed DQ.

You should do the appeal. Kevlar is not wrong, but there is a LOT more context to what he is saying. Hence please call in to comm2A in order to learn that context and get on the radar of the org.
 
@onlyinmass - Sorry, I wasn't trying to confuse or discourage you. Though I am not privy to the inner workings of Comm2A, I have an inkling as to what may be happening behind the scenes. I strongly encourage you follow terraformer's advice. I believe it will benefit you, as well as others that may be in a similar situation. Here's Comm2A's contact info...http://www.comm2a.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=22&Itemid=14

Good luck!
 
FED DQ

I did a phone consult with a lawyer that specialized in Firearms and helping with the review board and I did bring my concert about " the fact that a " favorable decision from the Firearms Review board" and the Fed PP and he said that to his knowledge once your " guns right" have been reinstated by your local State then it should not be a problem with the Feds and he has not heard on anyone who got an OK from the FARLB and got his CCW or FID and then get prosecuted by the ATF for owning a gun or rifle .
I have to say that the this is so confusing.
 
I did a phone consult with a lawyer that specialized in Firearms and helping with the review board and I did bring my concert about " the fact that a " favorable decision from the Firearms Review board" and the Fed PP and he said that to his knowledge once your " guns right" have been reinstated by your local State then it should not be a problem with the Feds and he has not heard on anyone who got an OK from the FARLB and got his CCW or FID and then get prosecuted by the ATF for owning a gun or rifle .
I have to say that the this is so confusing.

You are right, the intersection of MA state and federal gun law is very confusing (as is most MA gun law to begin with) and you did the right thing to call who you did. You should listen to that attorney and file for the appeal.
 
Appeal

I shall fill the appeal by the end of the moth ( just need to gather paperwork's) and decided to do it Pro-se as the cost of having a lawyer doing it is not cheap and a bit over my budget ( was quoted $3000).
Will try to get some recommendation letters and once I have a date set to go in front of the board I will tell the board that i understand that I made a poor decision almost 12 yrs ago when I got my OUI and I have a lot since then and never have been in a any trouble with the law ( except for 1 or 2 speeding tickets) and have been a good citizen and I hope to have the privilege to regain Gun ownership
I wish there were people on this forum that could share any experience they have regarding the review board.
 
I'm still not totally confident that a positive decision from the Firearms Board does allow to be not considered a PP hopefully there will be a case in court or any juris-prudence and precedent that can be used .
even if I was approved for an FID I don't think I would even consider purchasing a rifle until I'm 100% sure about the whole Federal Limbo about PP
You are right, the intersection of MA state and federal gun law is very confusing (as is most MA gun law to begin with) and you did the right thing to call who you did. You should listen to that attorney and file for the appeal.
 
I'm still not totally confident that a positive decision from the Firearms Board does allow to be not considered a PP hopefully there will be a case in court or any juris-prudence and precedent that can be used .
even if I was approved for an FID I don't think I would even consider purchasing a rifle until I'm 100% sure about the whole Federal Limbo about PP

That's fair. Like I said, call Comm2a and we can help explain what the issue is.
 
I have to say I'm not impressed by GOAL ( contacted numerous time to ask for info about the whole review board process) and was sent to someone voice mail and I left messages and never heard back. hopefully I will have better experience with Comm2A.
 
I did bring my concert about " the fact that a " favorable decision from the Firearms Review board" and the Fed PP and he said that to his knowledge once your " guns right" have been reinstated by your local State then it should not be a problem with the Feds and he has not heard on anyone who got an OK from the FARLB and got his CCW or FID and then get prosecuted by the ATF for owning a gun or rifle .

I agree with him on both points, especially the 1st.

I'm still not totally confident that a positive decision from the Firearms Board does allow to be not considered a PP hopefully there will be a case in court or any juris-prudence and precedent that can be used .

I'm totally confident, the law is clear. The Feds might interpret it differently for enforcement/administrative purposes, but the law is 100% clear. It could result in a headache for someone, but legally FLRB clearance is sound IMO.

I have to say I'm not impressed by GOAL ( contacted numerous time to ask for info about the whole review board process) and was sent to someone voice mail and I left messages and never heard back. hopefully I will have better experience with Comm2A.

I've never called either one of them, but remember GOAL's mission.
 
In researching material for my MA Gun Laws Seminar, I discussed this with Jason Guida. BATFE told him that they will NOT recognize FLRB's reinstatement of a person's gun rights so that they are NICS OK, BUT they also will NOT prosecute the person as a PP either. Sounds to me that they know that the person is no longer a PP and do NOT want a court to tell BATFE to "do the right thing" and restore the person's rights, so they just ignore it.

I've read of some that claim that they go thru NICS OK after a FLRB restoration and yet others claim that they get NICS Rejected! [shocked] Sounds like BATFE is a total CF operation!
 
I'm going to do the whole thing Pro-Se so Hopefully It wont be a problem.
What I Intend to show the review Board is that :

1) I was license before ( Had an FID before I had my OUI) and use to go target practice and never committed any firearms Infraction .
2) Morale character although I made a bad decision and a Mistake when I got the OUI I have since learned a lot about and reflected on it and 12 yrs have elapsed and I never got into any trouble with the law and I hope that it can show my character and that i'm a law biding citizen.
3) I understand that Gun ownership is a Right but in My case it;s a Privilege and I hope that the Board can see beyond my OUI and allow me to regain that right and Privilege.
 
In researching material for my MA Gun Laws Seminar, I discussed this with Jason Guida. BATFE told him that they will NOT recognize FLRB's reinstatement of a person's gun rights so that they are NICS OK, BUT they also will NOT prosecute the person as a PP either. Sounds to me that they know that the person is no longer a PP and do NOT want a court to tell BATFE to "do the right thing" and restore the person's rights, so they just ignore it.

I've read of some that claim that they go thru NICS OK after a FLRB restoration and yet others claim that they get NICS Rejected! [shocked] Sounds like BATFE is a total CF operation!

Well, if this is going to get out, then let me add some detail that is needed. Basically this is correct, ATF is blabbering on about rejecting FLRB restorations. The problem is two fold. A) The FBI controls and runs NICS, not the ATF. B) Once the FBI issues a proceed with full knowledge of both the original conviction and the restoration, one could reasonably argue that estoppal occurs and ATF can go and pound sand. The state can't prosecute and at that point neither can the feds. But it is correct that right after a restoration, NICS will deny you. This is and always has been the case. It was after an appeal that one would get proceeds out of NICS.

We have a request for clarification/ruling letter that has so far been unanswered in with the ATF on this and few related issues. The ATF usually answers these letters but ours has thus far gone unanswered. I have my theories on why but facts is all I will say here. It is clear that this confusion surrounding restoration of rights is having a chilling effect on the exercise of the right by many otherwise qualified people.

Now, we are working with one or two people to process their FBI NICS appeals. This is a lengthy process and will take time but basically we are looking to see what the FBI is doing with these appeals. If they handle them properly, then the ATF is likely off the reservation here. If they deny the appeals, then we know we have something and we will act accordingly.

It will be many more months before we get this worked out but the OP should go and get their restoration done now and not wait for this. The restoration process in no way puts them in criminal jeopardy. Petitioning government for redress is covered by the 1st amendment.
 
I'm going to do the whole thing Pro-Se so Hopefully It wont be a problem.
What I Intend to show the review Board is that :

1) I was license before ( Had an FID before I had my OUI) and use to go target practice and never committed any firearms Infraction .
2) Morale character although I made a bad decision and a Mistake when I got the OUI I have since learned a lot about and reflected on it and 12 yrs have elapsed and I never got into any trouble with the law and I hope that it can show my character and that i'm a law biding citizen.
3) I understand that Gun ownership is a Right but in My case it;s a Privilege and I hope that the Board can see beyond my OUI and allow me to regain that right and Privilege.

Your grasp of #3 is good. In the eyes of the system, your rights were forfeited by the conviction and this process of restoration is to get access to those rights back. That restoration process is the privilege and you are right that it is up to that board (which btw is one of the, if not the only, shining lights of MA gun law) to agree that you are worthy of having your rights restored. Do not go in there with a chip on your shoulder. Be deferential and understanding. Humble is a good word.
 
It will be many more months before we get this worked out but the OP should go and get their restoration done now and not wait for this. The restoration process in no way puts them in criminal jeopardy. Petitioning government for redress is covered by the 1st amendment.

Exactly. Getting through the FLRB mess & getting licensed is the difficult part. After that he can wait 20 years to buy a gun or 20 minutes, but the hard part is over. It's worth it to do now, at the least it shows time licensed without negative events, which some PD's like to see when it comes to upgrading from restrictions or a Class B.
 
My only concern is about getting recommendation Letter.
I don't really know anyone and not sure if that is really required by the FRLB or will they look at your overall morale character ( Employment history and been a law biding citizen and such)
 
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