TC Omega & "black powder"

[Coyote33]

OK, got the info from KTP when I got the Omega about the 2 pellets, and that is pretty down pat.

Just wondering, can these also be used with traditional, old-fashioned black powder? It was my understanding that the pellets are just a modern substitute for black powder. If so, where can one find information about this? What other things are necessary to do this, such as "wads", lead balls, etc.?

Asking for a friend.

 

[MAGA99]

Pellets are way easier and consistent. You can buy black powder at most gun stores.

 

[Coyote33]

I understand that they are probably more easy and consistent; and would most likely practice with and use that "system" for hunting.

I was just wondering about alternatives. Thought it might be fun to make some smoke during a hot summer's day.

 

[MisterHappy]

Pellets are way easier and consistent. You can buy black powder at most gun stores.

It's rarer than you think, around the PRM. Most "BP" that I've seen around here is Pyrodex.

If the OP posts their location, stores that sell it can be listed.

 

[Arto]

you can always check the mfr's for manual : pg 46&49 = pyrodex pellets
pg 47-50 = good old FFg
https://www.tcarms.com/pdfs/uploads/manuals/Omega_Manual_09-30-2012.pdf
Hunter's Rendezvous in Pepperell has BP

 

[rocket500]

Yes they can be used with regular black powder, or any of the black powder substitutes.

Do yourself a favor and try Blackhorn 209 if you want to try loose powder. It shoots well, won’t gunk up your gun as bad as the others (no swabbing between shots on the range) and is way less corrosive.

 

[BigTimber]

Pellets make plenty of smoke.

 

[Coyote33]

It's rarer than you think, around the PRM. Most "BP" that I've seen around here is Pyrodex.
If the OP posts their location, stores that sell it can be listed.

Think Worcester area. I know there is Bob's, Pullman, Gun Parlor, Tombstone, others?

you can always check the mfr's for manual : pg 46&49 = pyrodex pellets
pg 47-50 = good old FFg
https://www.tcarms.com/pdfs/uploads/manuals/Omega_Manual_09-30-2012.pdf
Hunter's Rendezvous in Pepperell has BP

I got it used, so until this post, did not have the manual. Thanks a ton!

Pellets make plenty of smoke.

True enough, but it isn't that satisfying smell of gunpowder. Plus, I would like to get some sort of flintlock in the future, and just want to try different things out for the heck of it.

 

[MisterHappy]

As Arto says, Hunter's Rendevous. I've never visited, but a buddy said that they have the stuff.

 

[rocket500]

I want to say I’ve seen it at Cabelas in Berlin.

 

[HorizontalHunter]

Swiss and Goex are around. Cabelas in E Hartford carries them IIRC as does Nicks in Palmer.

Call first though as it has been awhile.

You can also check with you black powder range at the club. The hard core BP shooters often get together and buy in bulk to save on the BP and also the hazmat shipping charges.

Bob

 

[Sweeney]

Pullman used to have BP...don't know if they still carry it.

 

[rocket500]

As for wads, lead balls, etc. skip it. You can get lead bullets that go into sabots or lubricated lead bullets- both of which will out perform a lead ball by quite a bit.

 

[whacko]

As for wads, lead balls, etc. skip it. You can get lead bullets that go into sabots or lubricated lead bullets- both of which will out perform a lead ball by quite a bit.

Agreed. Inline smoke poles are designed for sabots not round ball.

 

[Arto]

inlines are awesome except for the hole they shoot in your wallet @ ~$3 a shot for bullet/pellets/primer.....
for $10, with roundball/BP & a flintlock, you can shoot all summer!
sooo which will you practice a lot with to become more "well-regulated?"

 

[HorizontalHunter]

As for wads, lead balls, etc. skip it. You can get lead bullets that go into sabots or lubricated lead bullets- both of which will out perform a lead ball by quite a bit.

Twist rate is the issue.

The Omega has a twist rate of 1:28 twist which is optimized for a modern saboted bullet.

Modern replica BP have a 1:48 twist which is a compromise twist. Ballets, and Maxiballs will work well here. PRB’s (Plain Round Balls) also shoot well if you don’t push them too hard. An over powder wad in between the projectile helps here as well.

Flintlocks typically run 1:66 twist is optimized for PRB’s.

Bob

 

[Coyote33]

inlines are awesome except for the hole they shoot in your wallet @ ~$3 a shot for bullet/pellets/primer.....
for $10, with roundball/BP & a flintlock, you can shoot all summer!
sooo which will you practice a lot with to become more "well-regulated?"

Would something like this fit your description?

https://www.chiappafirearms.com/product.php?id=236

 

[mac1911]

Grab this LEE COMBO DC MOLD .50 CAL-320 RB
Get a pound or so of pure lead and start casting.
Does both Lee REAL bullet and Round ball.
pick up some patches and lube and your good to go.

i run blackthorn 209 and lee real bullet lubed with Crisco
CCI 209 primer.
Good info here
Inline and patched round ball questions

also Cast boolits forums.

if your local to hanover i can see what I have for pure lead and give you a pound or so.

 

[Coyote33]

Do they make that for .54 caliber? How tough is it to cast those? Thanks for the info, sounds interesting. Would lead from the berm at the range work OK?

 

[Arto]

nice but big buck$!! you can get T/C Hawkens or Renegades relatively cheaply used these days, since everybody's going to inlines (i.e., ~$150-200 for a smoothbore Renegade)

 

[rocket500]

Do they make that for .54 caliber? How tough is it to cast those? Thanks for the info, sounds interesting. Would lead from the berm at the range work OK?

No, you use pure lead for muzzleloader bullets. Needs to be as soft as it can be or you’re going to have a time getting it down the bore if you can at all.

If you use a sabot and a smaller bullet (sized properly for the sabot) you can cast them out of whatever it won’t matter.

 

[mac1911]

Do they make that for .54 caliber? How tough is it to cast those? Thanks for the info, sounds interesting. Would lead from the berm at the range work OK?

Lead from the berm can be pretty soft but stick with known good old pure lead.
Lots of alloys on sale so get a few folks together
Pure Soft Lead Metal 99.9% ~ 5 Pound Ingot
I use range scrap and as mentioned its a bit tougher to get down the bore.
Lee does make a 45 and 54 cal mold.
I also run a 230 grain 45cal cast bullet with the 50cal sabot.
Its minute of deer to 100 yards if needed. The lee REAL 250 grain slugs I use in my Omega with 80 grains of pellets or BT209 get me just under 3moa. I really have not spent the time finding the magic load combination.
For accuracy my buddy spends the big bucks and uses the sabot style with expensive federal BOR lock bullets.
Hornady makes a round ball with sabot set up if you get lazy.
I use hornady black sabot and what ever 45 cal bullet I come across. i used up a handful of 45cal 45-70 bullets sized to .452 cast with zinc those shot well too.
Im a bit of a cheap sob when it comes to BP shooting. Im not dropping $1 plus on a bullet , im also not messing around with patches anymore. A spit patch is about it.
Fun stuff, round ball is not worth the time in the omega. It just does not shoot well for me anyway.

 

[Coyote33]

Well, the point is to try to make it myself. I suppose I could use sabots and smaller bullets. Going to start getting going on this again now that it is cooler out.

 

[whacko]

Well, the point is to try to make it myself. I suppose I could use sabots and smaller bullets. Going to start getting going on this again now that it is cooler out.

My plan for today is to check zero on the whole families shotguns and muzzle loaders. 3 shotties and 3 smoke poles going to the range this afternoon. Trying to get it done early this year.

 

[whacko]

Lead from the berm can be pretty soft but stick with known good old pure lead.
Lots of alloys on sale so get a few folks together
Pure Soft Lead Metal 99.9% ~ 5 Pound Ingot
I use range scrap and as mentioned its a bit tougher to get down the bore.
Lee does make a 45 and 54 cal mold.
I also run a 230 grain 45cal cast bullet with the 50cal sabot.
Its minute of deer to 100 yards if needed. The lee REAL 250 grain slugs I use in my Omega with 80 grains of pellets or BT209 get me just under 3moa. I really have not spent the time finding the magic load combination.
For accuracy my buddy spends the big bucks and uses the sabot style with expensive federal BOR lock bullets.
Hornady makes a round ball with sabot set up if you get lazy.
I use hornady black sabot and what ever 45 cal bullet I come across. i used up a handful of 45cal 45-70 bullets sized to .452 cast with zinc those shot well too.
Im a bit of a cheap sob when it comes to BP shooting. Im not dropping $1 plus on a bullet , im also not messing around with patches anymore. A spit patch is about it.
Fun stuff, round ball is not worth the time in the omega. It just does not shoot well for me anyway.

The Omega.....and most inline muzzle loaders......were not designed for round ball accuracy. The twist rate is optimized for sabots or conicals. It's my understanding that muzzle loaders designed to fire sabots have a faster twist rate (1:20 to 1:24) and round ball guns have a slower twist rate.....some as slow as 1:60.

Additionally.....I dont worry so much about cost in muzzle loading use. I shoot em to extend my deer season and that's it. I'll zero em once before the season and then hunt with them and that's it. So $1 a shot doesn't bother me. I've taken more deer with the muzzle loader than with my shotgun.....they are an excellent tool for the task in massachusetts.

 

[Coyote33]

... I dont worry so much about cost in muzzle loading use. I shoot em to extend my deer season and that's it. I'll zero em once before the season and then hunt with them and that's it. So $1 a shot doesn't bother me. I've taken more deer with the muzzle loader than with my shotgun.....they are an excellent tool for the task in massachusetts.

GREAT POINT!