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Texas Domestic Shooting/Teal Shirt Guy/Graphic

so let me see. Kyle goes and gets a gun. Chad doesn't have a gun. Kyle pops one off at Chad's feet. In defense, who wouldn't try to disarm the person with the gun? So Chad tries to take the gun, Kyle gets away. Chad still doesn't have a gun. Kyle kills Chad. I don't see this as self defense on Kyle's part. Chad is a blowhard and an a**h*** and he is dead. But Kyle was NOT (IMO) justified in introducing a gun to this shouting match.

I don't see this as a "castle doctrine" case either as Chad was unarmed.
 
FrugalFannie said:
so let me see. Kyle goes and gets a gun. Chad doesn't have a gun. Kyle pops one off at Chad's feet. In defense, who wouldn't try to disarm the person with the gun? So Chad tries to take the gun, Kyle gets away. Chad still doesn't have a gun. Kyle kills Chad. I don't see this as self defense on Kyle's part. Chad is a blowhard and an a**h*** and he is dead. But Kyle was NOT (IMO) justified in introducing a gun to this shouting match.

I don't see this as a "castle doctrine" case either as Chad was unarmed.
Click to expand...
You didn't mention Chad running his mouth: threatening to take Kyle's gun and then _____.
(Audio is crap and I don't envy whoever tries to transcribe the whole mess).
 
NES where everyone talks a good game about not involving the man in their life until some chode shows up at your property. Then suddenly it becomes "I'd go inside and close all the blinds and wait for the police."

FrugalFannie said:
so let me see. Kyle goes and gets a gun. Chad doesn't have a gun. Kyle pops one off at Chad's feet. In defense, who wouldn't try to disarm the person with the gun? So Chad tries to take the gun, Kyle gets away. Chad still doesn't have a gun. Kyle kills Chad. I don't see this as self defense on Kyle's part. Chad is a blowhard and an a**h*** and he is dead. But Kyle was NOT (IMO) justified in introducing a gun to this shouting match.

I don't see this as a "castle doctrine" case either as Chad was unarmed.
Click to expand...

Maybe Chad should leave someone's property when the property owner emerges from THEIR house with a gun? Maybe Chad shouldn't have tried to disarm someone while on THEIR property.
 
FrugalFannie said:
so let me see. Kyle goes and gets a gun. Chad doesn't have a gun. Kyle pops one off at Chad's feet. In defense, who wouldn't try to disarm the person with the gun? So Chad tries to take the gun, Kyle gets away. Chad still doesn't have a gun. Kyle kills Chad. I don't see this as self defense on Kyle's part. Chad is a blowhard and an a**h*** and he is dead. But Kyle was NOT (IMO) justified in introducing a gun to this shouting match.

I don't see this as a "castle doctrine" case either as Chad was unarmed.
Click to expand...
Where does it say in the Castle doctrine the other party must be armed?
 
SgtHal75 said:
I’ve had plenty of UoF training too. Military and civilian, 25+ years worth with instructor credentials to prove it, let’s not turn this into a Resume Richard measuring contest😂😂👍🏻. He didn’t really come out guns blazing, that’s kind of a stretch…but he did come out meaning business and Teal shirt got right up in his face and assaulted him. Chest bumping is assault. This may not be the cleanest SD shoot but it’s clean and it’s not going anywhere because of the State he is in. The shooter does not have to cower and shelter in place in his own home, I wouldn’t. But, I would at least get my wife/girlfriend into the house before I used any kind of deadly force. Now, if teal shirt backs off or tries to leave and it isn’t good enough for the shooter and he shoots him, well then we have a different kettle of fish.👍🏻
Click to expand...
Just thinking of getting your wife/girlfriend in the house thing. Anyone see the other video from inside the house? Seems like they could have taken a stray round.
 
Another point to be made is when the shooter was thrown back about 5 feet the ex was standing there and not advancing towards him, I think there could be an argument made that he had enough distance where his life was not in danger?

The incident favors the shooter in my opinion but I’m thinking if this gets legal legs it’s not a slam dunk win for the shooter.
 
SHOCKNAWE said:
Another point to be made is when the shooter was thrown back about 5 feet the ex was standing there and not advancing towards him, I think there could be an argument made that he had enough distance where his life was not in danger?

The incident favors the shooter in my opinion but I’m thinking if this gets legal legs it’s not a slam dunk win for the shooter.
Click to expand...
That's what Andrew B is arguing.
 
Junior314 said:
NES where everyone talks a good game about not involving the man in their life until some chode shows up at your property. Then suddenly it becomes "I'd go inside and close all the blinds and wait for the police."



Maybe Chad should leave someone's property when the property owner emerges from THEIR house with a gun? Maybe Chad shouldn't have tried to disarm someone while on THEIR property.
Click to expand...
The guy was looking for his son and apparently the arranged pickup place was this property. Not exactly some random guy showing up for no good reason.
 
TLB said:
The guy was looking for his son and apparently the arranged pickup place was this property. Not exactly some random guy showing up for no good reason.
Click to expand...

Right and it seemed to me (based on the video) that his son was at another location as both he and the mother indicated they were going to go pick him up. At that point he was asked to leave a few times and didn’t. Instead he stuck around to tell everyone how they were getting subpoenaed.
 
Junior314 said:
What about when someone tries to wrestle a gun away from you?
Click to expand...

That changes things, but he only tried to grab it from the boyfriend after the boyfriend shot it at his feet with a “warning shot”, using lethal force when none was allowed by law.

And the boyfriend also left a benign interaction with a trespasser to go grab a gun and introduce it to the non-threatening situation. That changed things too. This incident is far from cut and dry.

Both sides were idiots, but I think the boyfriend way overreacted and I feel bad for both the father and the son.

He may have been an idiot, but I have complete empathy for the father, who was clearly having repeated instances of his ex withholding his son from him. Parents do stupid things when their children are taken from them, particularly unjustly.
 
Junior314 said:
Right and it seemed to me (based on the video) that his son was at another location as both he and the mother indicated they were going to go pick him up. At that point he was asked to leave a few times and didn’t. Instead he stuck around to tell everyone how they were getting subpoenaed.
Click to expand...
Yeah, it might be legal or not. I just don't see killing the guy based on the video alone as a move I would like to live with after the fact as the shooter.
 
FrugalFannie said:
I don't see this as a "castle doctrine" case either as Chad was unarmed.
Click to expand...

BigTimber said:
Where does it say in the Castle doctrine the other party must be armed?
Click to expand...

PappyM3 said:
TX castle doctrine doesn’t allow you to use lethal force for someone who’s just trespassing on your property.
Click to expand...

Junior314 said:
What about when someone tries to wrestle a gun away from you?
Click to expand...
The following are the allowed use of force conditions under Texas law:

The actor's belief that the force was immediately necessary as described by this subsection is presumed to be reasonable if the actor:​
(1) knew or had reason to believe that the person against whom the force was used:​
(A) unlawfully and with force entered, or was attempting to enter unlawfully and with force, the actor's occupied habitation, vehicle, or place of business or employment;​
(B) unlawfully and with force removed, or was attempting to remove unlawfully and with force, the actor from the actor's habitation, vehicle, or place of business or employment; or​
(C) was committing or attempting to commit aggravated kidnapping, murder, sexual assault, aggravated sexual assault, robbery, or aggravated robbery;​
(2) did not provoke the person against whom the force was used; and​
(3) was not otherwise engaged in criminal activity, other than a Class C misdemeanor that is a violation of a law or ordinance regulating traffic at the time the force was used.​
​
Kyle would seem to fail to get cover under the Castle doctrine for two reasons:
  1. Chad did not fit into any of conditions (A) to (C) above, as he was not entering the house at all, and even if you argue the whole curtilage issue, you can't say that he did anything close to "entering with force" prior to Kyle firing the warning shot, which leads to
  2. Kyle would seem to be excluded by provoking Chad with the warning shot.

That being said, Chad's a poster boy for PSGWSP.
 
Last edited:
Junior314 said:
What about when someone tries to wrestle a gun away from you?
Click to expand...
That's what will have to be hashed out in legal land. If you bring out a gun where it's use is not backed by castle doctrine, get back into chest bumping, continue to verbally argue, fire a point blank warning shot and then act surprised that the warning shot point blank escalated it to a brief struggle...

You sorta have to turn off your brain for this one.

If Chad was a well spoken guy and nicer about the entire thing, less people would want to see the bully go down. I suspect a lot of the hate and anger towards the dead guy is resulting of him simply being an a**h*** who deserves bad things. The problem is, that's not how self defense works.

If someone is being a super a**h*** to me and I continuously close the distance with him physically, chest bump, argue, go inside, get a firearm, come back, continue to chest bump, argue and fight, i mean, what the f*** guys?

I don't think murder is appropriate, but this guy's reasonably looking at manslaughter charges, which I believe (and I could be wrong) are what results when 2 bosses have to sort out whose the top boss and one of them ends up dead. It certainly was a mutual fight, no doubt about it. And when people die in those sorts of things manslaughter is pretty common of a charge.
 
SHOCKNAWE said:
Another point to be made is when the shooter was thrown back about 5 feet the ex was standing there and not advancing towards him, I think there could be an argument made that he had enough distance where his life was not in danger?

The incident favors the shooter in my opinion but I’m thinking if this gets legal legs it’s not a slam dunk win for the shooter.
Click to expand...

That’s how I see it. It reminds me a lot of that shooting over a handicap parking spot in Florida. There was a distance, not a huge distance but they were not within reach as was the case in Kenosha Wisconsin. Both in Florida and in this case in Texas, the person shoot tossed the shooter but then didn’t advance afterwards. If the guy shot in Texas took even one step towards the shooter, it’s open and shut self defense. But he didn’t advance at all so in that very moment, I don’t see the fear of imminent great bodily harm or death. The shooter in Florida was on his butt after getting tossed and argued self defense and lost. I think he’s doing over 20 years in a Florida prison as a result
 
HARRYM said:
I can't recall ever seeing a time where so many idiots are mouthing off and or attacking an armed person as I have seen in the last few years.
Click to expand...

Everyone has a cellphone camera. I’m sure it’s always happened but just wasn’t captured on camera. Also, the way stories proliferate there social media, internet, etc is very different from the past, people see a TON more information than even 10 years ago
 
Chevy 2 65 said:
Spoke to a friend who lives in Richmond, TX. He has seen the video and said.

"He should have left. Never grab someone's gun and threaten to kill them with it. Period end of story".
" Texas is the wrong place to f*** around"
Click to expand...

*Unless it’s on your wife, with your side piece’s kid, and her ex-husband. Then f*** around all you want!?!?

What a f***ing mess.
 
Well, it seems we may have a motive for Shooter and POS mom. Shooters wife is a judge and Teal shirt was going to expose the whole affair with his ex. Shooter and POS mom take a gamble, lure him into a trap because of his anger and BAM!… forgive me if it has already been said…I rifled through the recent posts on my phone.👍🏻
 
No true bill:
www.kcbd.com

Homicide of Chad Read goes before grand jury, no charges will be filed against Carruth

Sources tell KCBD no charges will be filed against Kyle Carruth after the Attorney General’s Office convened a grand jury in the death of Chad Read.
www.kcbd.com www.kcbd.com

Also, the dead guy's wife tried to get custody of her stepchildren
from their mother; the shooter's wife.
Family court said, "how about 'no'? 'No' works for us".

Next up: civil suit.
 
AHM said:
No true bill:
www.kcbd.com

Homicide of Chad Read goes before grand jury, no charges will be filed against Carruth

Sources tell KCBD no charges will be filed against Kyle Carruth after the Attorney General’s Office convened a grand jury in the death of Chad Read.
www.kcbd.com www.kcbd.com

Also, the dead guy's wife tried to get custody of her stepchildren
from their mother; the shooter's wife.
Family court said, "how about 'no'? 'No' works for us".

Next up: civil suit.
Click to expand...
What a screwed up situation for the kids.
 

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