The Future

[Rusty Barrels]

In Massachusetts we have seen a few common sense changes in the law over the last few years. Tattoos are now legal and you can buy alcohol on sunday, for example. Does this sort of thing make any of you feel at least a little hopeful? I have heard a lot of anecdotal evidence that more Massachusetts residents than ever are obtaining firearm licenses. Many of you probably have a much better idea of the direction our gun rights are going than I do so I'd like to hear an honest assessment of real developments. Let's cast our cynicism aside for a few moments and discuss where we may stand in a decade or so on the gun issue.

 

[JRyan]

You know, my favorite gun store is going out of business, all the a**h*** liberals around me only care about some of the bill of rights instead of all of it, and I can go to the range almost any time I want and have the place to myself.

I am not hopeful. I'm not giving up, but to me, things look grim.

I would not be surprised if I had to drive very far and pay very high prices for ammo and firearms, and to get any kind of range time in a decade.

 

[Nashmack]

But look at the bright side, socialized health care for those in poverty (F**k the folks that make over $14,000 a year!) and all illegal aliens!

 

[JRyan]

But look at the bright side, socialized health care for those in poverty (F**k the folks that make over $14,000 a year!) and all illegal aliens!

We have people at work just paying the fine for the health care, they make too much for the cheap stuff and not enough for the good health care. Cashiers, etc. not sure how a fine helps them stay healthy, maybe I'll ask the governor. [sad2]

 

[Nashmack]

The only job I currently have is part time making $8.50/hr. I work <25 hours weekly. I can't afford health insurance. The only gun I currently own is a .22 rifle. The reason why I don't have more guns or have health insurance is because all the jobs I've applied for are filled by immigrants. Yeah it's a nice gesture on Default Patrick's part to allow all these criminals (they broke the immigration laws, now we F**king welcome them?!?!?!?!?!) to live here legally and vote (They're always gonna vote demoRat folks!), but enough is enough!

/rant

PS, what was the topic again?

 

[drgrant]

Are you kidding me? MA gun owners have been punched in the
sack pretty hard in 1998. I don't think we've ever really recovered
from that. I doubt the numbers of "legal gun owners" in MA even
remotely approach their pre-1998 values, and the pols like it that
way.

The only thing saving us at this point is legislative sloth and the
fact that the legislamers are busy f***ing other things up and don't
have as much time for us; that and they're not exactly on a
symbiotic track with uhaul deval; and the vigilance of goal helps
slow the erosion somewhat, as well.

In 10 years from now, I don't see anything major changing-
unless, the US supreme court hands down a positive decision WRT
Parker vs DC... with a judgement that has a wide enough span
to influence MA gun law... even then it still wouldn't abolish most
of the terror that MA gun owners go through. Even that kind of
"external help" is a longshot at best.

Unfortunately gun owners in MA are a minority of a minority; I see
things getting worse not better here... the only real issue is the
rate at which we are poisoned.

My prognosis? Things will get better for gun owners in MA right
after those tolls on the pike come down... ya know, the ones the
pols promised to remove in (1983?) What about that income tax
rollback? And these are issues that a large portion
of the populous here agrees are screwed up; given that I don't
think a minority interest has much of a chance, if even bigger
issues are being ignored by corrupt politicians.

Sorry but I'm not optimistic. I've lived here long enough to
develop a certain amount of warranted pessimism about MA
politics....

-Mike

 

[pipmaster1971]

Won't make any difference in 10, 15 or 20 years in MA in any case. One of the results of all these laws (either intentional or unintentional, I'm guessing intentional) is just to make firearm ownership in MA too much of a pain in the ass. People on this board may just make the effort, but kids growing up today just won't be bothered to take up the hobby. It just won't be worth it (too many rules, too much of a pain), and they'll find other hobbies and passtimes instead. Firearm ownership will just go the way of the dinosaurs in MA...A death of a thousand cuts.

 

[Arioch]

Won't make any difference in 10, 15 or 20 years in MA in any case. One of the results of all these laws (either intentional or unintentional, I'm guessing intentional) is just to make firearm ownership in MA too much of a pain in the ass. People on this board may just make the effort, but kids growing up today just won't be bothered to take up the hobby. It just won't be worth it (too many rules, too much of a pain), and they'll find other hobbies and passtimes instead. Firearm ownership will just go the way of the dinosaurs in MA...A death of a thousand cuts.

I see the same thing happening with classic cars. The only people interested in them are getting on in years (as I am) and most younger people look at the as just "old cars."

 

[dwarven1]

IF the SCOTUS rules that the Second does apply to us peons, I think that will force a change in the permitting process - remember that you must have an LTC to possess a handgun? I would think that a SCOTUS ruling would either invalidate the part of the law that says you must have an LTC to own a gun or make it shall issue. Most likely the former, and only if someone challenges it in court.

 

[kevin9]

IF the SCOTUS rules that the Second does apply to us peons, I think that will force a change in the permitting process - remember that you must have an LTC to possess a handgun? I would think that a SCOTUS ruling would either invalidate the part of the law that says you must have an LTC to own a gun or make it shall issue. Most likely the former, and only if someone challenges it in court.

I don't think a reasonably favorable SCOTUS ruling will affect MA any time soon. Even if SCOTUS takes the case and rules in favor of the plaintiffs I don't think the ruling would be so broad so as to impact the "reasonable regulation" argument for current MA laws. Yes I know the MA laws really are unreasonable, but I expect it would be a long, uphill legal battle to prove that the MA laws are so unreason that they would be affected by any decision in the D.C. case. I just don't see the SCOTUS going so far as to make D.C. "shall issue".

I'd love to pleasantly surprised though.

And no I don't see much if any improvement in store for MA with an explicit gun-banning governor in place.

 

[Ripach]

Won't make any difference in 10, 15 or 20 years in MA in any case. One of the results of all these laws (either intentional or unintentional, I'm guessing intentional) is just to make firearm ownership in MA too much of a pain in the ass. People on this board may just make the effort, but kids growing up today just won't be bothered to take up the hobby. It just won't be worth it (too many rules, too much of a pain), and they'll find other hobbies and passtimes instead. Firearm ownership will just go the way of the dinosaurs in MA...A death of a thousand cuts.

This is why it important to spread the joy and share the wealth. Whenever the topic of firearms comes up with friends/coworkers, I mention my enjoyment of the hobby, if people show even the slightest interest I offer to take them shooting. This is how we will keep the sport alive and expand our numbers. It may be a long slow process, but it's the same tactic our opposition uses.

As far as the OP's question, I see the battle going pretty much the same in the future as it goes now, The antis will continue to try and ban everything, and we must remain vigilant and continue to fight them. One weapon I think we must use more is education, if you can educate the people who are indifferent to the issue on the facts, most with common sense will lean to our side. It becomes key to our cause to reach the fence sitters because no matter what the facts, we will never persuade the hard-core antis to change.

 

[Mikey]

+1 Ripach

I today was just talking to one of my co-workers who use to shoot and after seeing my NES decal on my truck asked me about shooting and is now going to get his LTC. The main reason he asked was his son is now 9 yrs old and he wants to take him out to the range.

 

[Len-2A Training]

Ross, you should read up on how the US SC works. They (as a matter of practice since day 1) rule as narrowly as possible on the matter.

No way that the DC ruling will impact MA wrt licensing.

Also the MA "leadership" is so arrogant that even if the law (USSC) applied, they'd probably continue as-is with a "take me to court" attitude. Thus it could take 5+ years before any such case would be heard (at a cost of millions, which they know gun owners/orgs can't afford). Same way that local chiefs and MCOPA advise adding things that violate the law, knowing full-well that most will never challenge it in court (too expensive/time consuming) and will instead just "roll over" (which gets Scriv's goat).

 

[bpm990d]

...they'd probably continue as-is with a "take me to court" attitude.

That is exactly what would happen.

B

 

[KMaurer]

The USSC ruling in the DC case will have no direct effect on Massachusetts for the simple reason that the question at issue only applies to the federal government. Assuming that we win this one, we'll have to wait for a case arguing that the individual rights protections guaranteed by the 2nd should also apply against state violations (the incorporation issue). Until that happens, the only effect on Massachusetts laws might be if the decision inspires religious conversions in politicians and/or voters.

Ken

 

[Rusty Barrels]

What about the numbers of LTCs issued in Mass? Is there any way to find the official numbers or do they prefer not to release those? I've heard there are more than ever and that would be the best thing for our side. There are a lot of really angry voters among LTC holders in this state!

 

[Coyote33]

I imagine the official numbers of LTC's parted ways with the actual number of owners starting around 1998. One thing is certain, all the mom and pop home dealers has either dropped tremendously or come darn close to disappearing.

The only upshot is the license size has finally shrunken so it doesn't drop out of wallets now.

 

[pdm]

Well, I was 31 when I got my LTC-A for the first time. My mom wouldn't have guns in her house, so no chance while I was growing up and then I waited until I was no longer renting and owned a house. Once I looked into the rules you had to follow, it only seemed prudent to wait.

But once I got my license, I've been trying to get my brother and father to get licensed.