The Mass LTC System is Inherently Racist

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How often does the LTC system get attacked on criminal justice reform grounds? The crime of carrying without a LTC, in my anecdotal observations, largely impacts minorities in cities like Brockton, Fall River, New Bedford, Lowell/Lawrence/etc., and minority-heavy neighborhoods in Boston like Dorchester and Roxbury.

I'd love to see statistical data on what communities have the most carrying without a LTC charges cross-referenced by racial stats. Or just breaking down who gets charged by the defendant's race.

Of course we all know this was the intent of the law back in the early 1900s-1920s when the political system wanted to keep guns out of the hands of Italians, Jews, blacks, and other recent immigrants.
 
I'd say it hardly impacts them at all because the charges are almost always dropped. With that said though, I do think we should be trying to turn every 2A issue into a racial issue and then just piggyback along with it. Put them in a position where they have to come right out and say this group can have these rights but not that group.
 
Step back from this a little and look at the bigger picture. Nothing has changed in the political left in the last 150 years. They are still fundamentally the same people they were when they put on white hoods and burned crosses. The left wants you to believe that at some point about 40-50 years ago there was a sudden cultural inversion and democrats became the good guys and republicans became the trailer park racists. But that never happened. It's evidenced by this today. There is no difference between a minority person lacking a modern LTC and a freed slave being tossed into prison in 1870 for possessing a firearm. None. The same people who believed in the same things then believe in the same things now. Just look at Bloombergs words. What's the difference between what Bloomberg says today and a KKK grand master in 1870? Nothing.

I've lived in MA most of my life and grew up and went to the nicest private colleges and yet through all of that, some of the most liberal people I have ever met, have uttered things that would make the pernicious racist jaw drop. If there were a minority within ear shot their heads would have exploded.
 
I'd say it hardly impacts them at all because the charges are almost always dropped. With that said though, I do think we should be trying to turn every 2A issue into a racial issue and then just piggyback along with it. Put them in a position where they have to come right out and say this group can have these rights but not that group.

About 95% of cases are dismissed or pleas. I'm not aware of what percent of that 95% is dismissed versus pleas, but I think most charges end up with pleas.

We're talking felonies here, not drunk and disorderly on a Saturday night in Uxbridge.
 
Ianal or an leo, but if I had to guess I'd say the majority of carrying unlicensed charges are lumped in with a bunch of other charges. Like you said, plea deals are made and the no LTC charge is the first one dropped I would think. How many people are charged with carrying unlicensed with no other charges? I have no idea but I would say it's not all that many. Minorities will be over represented there simply because they are more likely to be armed, meaning avg black kid in Mattapan is more likely to be carrying a gun than the avg white kid in wakefield.
 
Ianal or an leo, but if I had to guess I'd say the majority of carrying unlicensed charges are lumped in with a bunch of other charges. Like you said, plea deals are made and the no LTC charge is the first one dropped I would think. How many people are charged with carrying unlicensed with no other charges? I have no idea but I would say it's not all that many. Minorities will be over represented there simply because they are more likely to be armed, meaning avg black kid in Mattapan is more likely to be carrying a gun than the avg white kid in wakefield.

This is why I'd love to see stats. Let's see some numbers.
 
As a white, Irish guy, with an easily obtained unrestricted LTC, who is originally from Dorchester and now living in a town where the firearm licensing officer (and half the force also) have family roots in County Cork, County Galway and most of whom grew up in or had family from Dorchester, Southie, Hyde Park (etc etc etc) ?

I don't see how anyone could possibly consider the MA gun licensing (or anything else that requires licensing/permits etc) system as being racist, slanted, favoritism, etc etc....

Just sayin' 😏
 
As a white, Irish guy, with an easily obtained unrestricted LTC, who is originally from Dorchester and now living in a town where the firearm licensing officer (and half the force also) have family roots in County Cork, County Galway and most of whom grew up in or had family from Dorchester, Southie, Hyde Park (etc etc etc) ?

I don't see how anyone could possibly consider the MA gun licensing (or anything else that requires licensing/permits etc) system as being racist, slanted, favoritism, etc etc....

Just sayin' 😏
OK. You should have asked for a Green Card while in Dorchester and see how that went. Jack.
 
As a white, Irish guy, with an easily obtained unrestricted LTC, who is originally from Dorchester and now living in a town where the firearm licensing officer (and half the force also) have family roots in County Cork, County Galway and most of whom grew up in or had family from Dorchester, Southie, Hyde Park (etc etc etc) ?

I don't see how anyone could possibly consider the MA gun licensing (or anything else that requires licensing/permits etc) system as being racist, slanted, favoritism, etc etc....

Just sayin' 😏

Throw in a Kennedy and a Democrat state rep/town hack and your licensing situation is the Massachusetts dream [laugh]
 
I actually have personally experience. My best friend who is a we’ll to do baffoon living in Cambridge got his Ltc unrestricted in Cambridge. He’s a Harvard grad and is a big shot at some firm. He got it no problem no delay, another friend lives in East Cambridge and could t even get an interview for 6 months and when he did get the license it was restricted. So the level of hypocrisy is insane.
 
Any white male with a clean record living in Acton can have a unrestricted LTC upon request. Any black male with a clean record living in Boston cannot. What else do you need to know? Jack.

Do you know of a black man in Acton who got denied? I do know a bunch of white males living in Boston who got restrictions and black males from outside of the city who have unrestricted LTC's.
 
Make it shall-issue and the bias will still be there. Because people who voluntarily live in Boston, Brockton, Lawrence, Wooooooster (Go Wuh Sox!) and Springfield are more inclined to trust Uncle Gub'mint to take care of them AND are less likely to have the disposable cash (after iPhone, big screen TV, $800 wheels on the car, etc.,) to buy a gun in the first place.
 
Step back from this a little and look at the bigger picture. Nothing has changed in the political left in the last 150 years. They are still fundamentally the same people they were when they put on white hoods and burned crosses. The left wants you to believe that at some point about 40-50 years ago there was a sudden cultural inversion and democrats became the good guys and republicans became the trailer park racists. But that never happened. It's evidenced by this today. There is no difference between a minority person lacking a modern LTC and a freed slave being tossed into prison in 1870 for possessing a firearm. None. The same people who believed in the same things then believe in the same things now. Just look at Bloombergs words. What's the difference between what Bloomberg says today and a KKK grand master in 1870? Nothing.

I've lived in MA most of my life and grew up and went to the nicest private colleges and yet through all of that, some of the most liberal people I have ever met, have uttered things that would make the pernicious racist jaw drop. If there were a minority within ear shot their heads would have exploded.

I was able to meet a very well to do prominent family on Nantucket and the language they used to describe minorities were pretty bad but no worse than my poor irish grandmother used. I think in those cases it was a generational thing.
 
Not sure if serious, OP, but you're talking about a spurious correlation and coming off as a Bolshevik, first class in the process.

There's a reason why I said "criminal justice reform" in the first post.

If someone's a "throw them all in jail for crack and heroin" kind of gun owner, they're not going to like what I'm saying. If someone's more along the lines of "legalize everything," then it's a different story.
 
Do you know of a black man in Acton who got denied? I do know a bunch of white males living in Boston who got restrictions and black males from outside of the city who have unrestricted LTC's.
OK. I was trying to make a point. Should have said any male in Acton. Most of the discrimination is geographic. Jack.
 
Boston is the most discriminatory.

Qualifying shooting is mandatory at Moon Island, which is ONLY accessible by private car (no uber is going to go there). The poor (mostly minorities), don't have easy access to private transport. Additionally, the poor are most likely to walk to work night shifts, carry cash on them, and live in violent crime-prone neighborhoods.
 
Calling something you don't like racist is straight out of Democrats' playbook. I'm done with this thread. Please LMK when someone finds a police department in MA that issues LTC's to whites and denies minorities with clean records.
 
Boston is the most discriminatory.

Qualifying shooting is mandatory at Moon Island, which is ONLY accessible by private car (no uber is going to go there). The poor (mostly minorities), don't have easy access to private transport. Additionally, the poor are most likely to walk to work night shifts, carry cash on them, and live in violent crime-prone neighborhoods.
I dont think you're giving them enough credit. I've worked in one of the lowest income cities in the state for a couple of decades. There are people living in state subsidized housing who have multiple vehicles in the same household. That is just as bs as the line about them not having ids to vote.
 
Calling something you don't like racist is straight out of Democrats' playbook. I'm done with this thread. Please LMK when someone finds a police department in MA that issues LTC's to whites and denies minorities with clean records.
FWIW I agree mostly, but as far as 2A rights go, no one gives a shit about the rights of your avg white person. If we can make it about race, at least it puts .gov in the position of either caving to the race card and us going along for the ride, appearing to deny rights to minorities or giving special gun rights to minorities while continuing to deny them to whites. Whichever way they choose it will be fun to watch.
 
Calling something you don't like racist is straight out of Democrats' playbook. I'm done with this thread. Please LMK when someone finds a police department in MA that issues LTC's to whites and denies minorities with clean records.

Talk to @one-eyed Jack

You've clearly never learned about why carry permits exist if your response to this thread is to throw a hissy fit announcing that you don't like the message and that you're leaving. Concealed carry laws stem from Jim Crow laws enacted to maintain Democrat, white supremacist majorities in former CSA states. The laws came north in the early 20th Century to keep immigrants disarmed.

I dont think you're giving them enough credit. I've worked in one of the lowest income cities in the state for a couple of decades. There are people living in state subsidized housing who have multiple vehicles in the same household. That is just as bs as the line about them not having ids to vote.

Realistically, what percentage of urban dwellers are welfare frauds?
 
Talk to @one-eyed Jack

You've clearly never learned about why carry permits exist if your response to this thread is to throw a hissy fit announcing that you don't like the message and that you're leaving. Concealed carry laws stem from Jim Crow laws enacted to maintain Democrat, white supremacist majorities in former CSA states. The laws came north in the early 20th Century to keep immigrants disarmed.



Realistically, what percentage of urban dwellers are welfare frauds?
If you want me to quote stats, I cant. I do have a lifetime of real life experience in one form or another. I have seen what's parked in the parking lots of housing projects, I've been in and out of low income properties for decades. I'm comfortable saying that the average project dweller isn't living any worse than the average blue collar working person out in the real world. Whether it's due to fraud, loosy goosy requirements, overly generous MA handouts or most likely some combination of those listed above, that's how it is.
 
The fact that the licensing officer in each town is the one exercising discretion makes most casual comparisons between different jurisdictions meaningless if you're trying to show racism of some kind, except on some sort of useless disparate outcome analysis that ignores the reality of MA licensing.
 
OK. You should have asked for a Green Card while in Dorchester and see how that went. Jack.

Even Black police officers in BPD can't get a Green Card.., while there's some Massachusetts city/town that will issue Green Cards to any Joe that's legally qualified for an LTC....
 
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What it does do. MA gun laws - criminalizing carrying possession of a firearm starts many down the path of becoming PP's.

This is a win in itself for many elected officials in MA

I find this highly ironic considering how the same people who support criminalizing the 2A are also advocating for drastically lowering incarceration rates and forgiving many crimes, including violent ones.

It's yet another hypocrisy exhibited by progressive pols.
 
Aside from the geographic variations in licensing policies, one of the biggest disenfranchising issues with the LTC system is its fees. $100 for the class and $100 for the permit, reoccurring every 6 years. A family scrounging for money from couch cushions to buy food isn’t going to be able to afford that. These are no different than the poll taxes that were designed to prevent the poor from voting. Now they’re just trying to prevent the poor from being self reliant with their own security.

I am tempted to start an initiative for the class and licensing fees to be eligible for MA tax credits if the resident is under a certain income level.


I dont think you're giving them enough credit. I've worked in one of the lowest income cities in the state for a couple of decades. There are people living in state subsidized housing who have multiple vehicles in the same household. That is just as bs as the line about them not having ids to vote.

There are plenty of low income families in the greater Boston area that rely on public transit. Even if they have a car in the family, they are still heavily dependent on public transit.
 
What it does do. MA gun laws - criminalizing carrying possession of a firearm starts many down the path of becoming PP's.

This is a win in itself for many elected officials in MA...

I firmly believe that’s why many gun laws have such harsh punishments. Make everything a felony, regardless of how serious the crime was, and you can fully deny guns to that person.
 
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