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The public schools suck thread.

"Guns attract violence" I almost laughed when I heard that. The woman who said it to me had a very serious look on her face. As if defending myself from some lunatic would be an act of violence rather than an act of self defense.
 
"Why do you want a gun? Why don't you learn karate?"

Seriously, I was asked this question by a lady at the Worcester PD when I called to enquire about the status of my LTC, a couple of decades or so ago.
 
Get a revolver or a wood stocked rifle because they're less scary and you'll have a better chance of getting off if you have to use it. A pump shotgun is your best defense because all you have to do is rack the slide and the BG will run away. If I feel threatened I'll just show my carry gun.
 
economist said:
I think the worst advice is something like "don't draw unless you know you are going to shoot". First, there comes a time when talking is over, a threat is real, and time is everything. Second, things can change very quickly. If the threat stops between draw and fire, then there's no fire. What is terrible about the general statement is that it creates a sense of doubt about drawing a gun in the face of a real threat. And that can get you killed.
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Umm, you don't draw unless you are justifies in using deadly force. That translates into you don't draw unless you are justified in shooting. If the situation changes then your actions change, but that does not change you original justifications to draw.

Saying you can draw to de-escalate a situation is probably the worst advise I have ever heard. Either that or 'if you carry a 10mm and have to use it you'll go to jail because some other guy did' [rolleyes]
 
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economist said:
I think the worst advice is something like "don't draw unless you know you are going to shoot". First, there comes a time when talking is over, a threat is real, and time is everything. Second, things can change very quickly. If the threat stops between draw and fire, then there's no fire. What is terrible about the general statement is that it creates a sense of doubt about drawing a gun in the face of a real threat. And that can get you killed.
Click to expand...

DickWanner said:
Umm, you don't draw unless you are justifies in using deadly force. That translates into you don't draw unless you are justified in shooting. If the situation changes then your actions change, but that does not change you original justifications to draw.

Saying you can draw to de-escalate a situation is probably the worst advise I have ever heard. Either that or 'if you carry a 10mm and have to use it you'll go to jail because some other guy did' [rolleyes]
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isn't that what the economist just said? or is my reading comprehension shot?
 
When taking my safety course in MA at a to remain unnamed school...

"It's perfectly legal to carry (CCW) in RI with your MA permit as long as your not staying overnight"

Yus, this was stated by the instructor in my safety class. I called the RI Attorney General's office the same week to confirm this blasphemous statement and as i suspected, BS.
 
"You shouldn't carry that when you have the kids with you,they could get hurt"

My mother.
 
Boghog1 said:
isn't that what the economist just said? or is my reading comprehension shot?
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Saying that the worst advice is "don't draw unless you know you are going to shoot" isn't bad advice at all. It is actually really good advice. At the moment you draw your firearm in self defense you MUST know that you are going to shoot or you are not actually in fear of death or harm and no have reason to draw your firearm. What happens after the draw is totally different from what was happening when you drew the firearms as the situation can be constantly changing. Advocating drawing without knowing that at that moment you must absolutely fire is advocating the drawing of a firearm to de-escalate a situation only and can get you into legal trouble or killed.

Let's put it this way. A BG approaches me on the street and is ten feet away from me when he produces a knife and demands my wallet. At this moment the BG has the means and intention to cause me serious harm and I must shoot him to protect myself. So I draw my firearm and while preparing to shoot. Once I draw the BG sees the gun and turns and flees. At THIS moment I am not in fear of harm and can no longer shoot even though half a second prior I absolutely knew that I must shoot the BG to protect myself. The situation changed and I had to adjust accordingly. The other issue could be me hesitating shooting for a second to see if the BG turns and flees. He doesn't and runs the knife through me and I'm dead due to the hesitation.

My whole beef is that you must know that you 100% have to shoot at the exact moment you are drawing or you do not have legal justification to draw. If the situation changes after the draw you have to adjust, but that does not change what you were thinking when you made the draw.
 
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ravyn said:
"Guns attract violence" I almost laughed when I heard that. The woman who said it to me had a very serious look on her face. As if defending myself from some lunatic would be an act of violence rather than an act of self defense.
Click to expand...

I've gotten this one before too. It was followed by a 5 minute soap box pitch about the laws of attraction and that if I was carrying a gun, I was drawing violence and bad things to myself. I was better off leaving the gun at home and thinking about positive things when I was out and about. In the end I would be safer that way. I didn't even bother responding as I wasn't going to waste my breath.
 
DickWanner said:
Saying that the worst advice is "don't draw unless you know you are going to shoot" isn't bad advice at all. It is actually really good advice. At the moment you draw your firearm in self defense you MUST know that you are going to shoot or you are not actually in fear of death or harm and no have reason to draw your firearm. What happens after the draw is totally different from what was happening when you drew the firearms as the situation can be constantly changing. Advocating drawing without knowing that at that moment you must absolutely fire is advocating the drawing of a firearm to de-escalate a situation only and can get you into legal trouble or killed.

Let's put it this way. A BG approaches me on the street and is ten feet away from me when he produces a knife and demands my wallet. At this moment the BG has the means and intention to cause me serious harm and I must shoot him to protect myself. So I draw my firearm and while preparing to shoot. Once I draw the BG sees the gun and turns and flees. At THIS moment I am not in fear of harm and can no longer shoot even though half a second prior I absolutely knew that I must shoot the BG to protect myself. The situation changed and I had to adjust accordingly. The other issue could be me hesitating shooting for a second to see if the BG turns and flees. He doesn't and runs the knife through me and I'm dead due to the hesitation.

My whole beef is that you must know that you 100% have to shoot at the exact moment you are drawing or you do not have legal justification to draw. If the situation changes after the draw you have to adjust, but that does not change what you were thinking when you made the draw.
Click to expand...

So you draw knowing you have to shoot, but once you draw you don't have to shoot, in which case you shouldn't have drawn? I'm a little confused.
 
DickWanner said:
Saying that the worst advice is "don't draw unless you know you are going to shoot" isn't bad advice at all. It is actually really good advice. At the moment you draw your firearm in self defense you MUST know that you are going to shoot or you are not actually in fear of death or harm and no have reason to draw your firearm. What happens after the draw is totally different from what was happening when you drew the firearms as the situation can be constantly changing. Advocating drawing without knowing that at that moment you must absolutely fire is advocating the drawing of a firearm to de-escalate a situation only and can get you into legal trouble or killed.

Let's put it this way. A BG approaches me on the street and is ten feet away from me when he produces a knife and demands my wallet. At this moment the BG has the means and intention to cause me serious harm and I must shoot him to protect myself. So I draw my firearm and while preparing to shoot. Once I draw the BG sees the gun and turns and flees. At THIS moment I am not in fear of harm and can no longer shoot even though half a second prior I absolutely knew that I must shoot the BG to protect myself. The situation changed and I had to adjust accordingly. The other issue could be me hesitating shooting for a second to see if the BG turns and flees. He doesn't and runs the knife through me and I'm dead due to the hesitation.

My whole beef is that you must know that you 100% have to shoot at the exact moment you are drawing or you do not have legal justification to draw. If the situation changes after the draw you have to adjust, but that does not change what you were thinking when you made the draw.
Click to expand...

This is exactly what I was referencing -- a definition of some hypothetical scenario that MUST ABSOLUTELY BE TRUE before you ever draw a weapon. In that moment you can either be mentally prepared to be a lawyer or mentally prepared to fight. Nobody, including me, ever said "draw to de-escalate a situation". Draw to escalate a situation in your favor. If a guy is waving a knife at me, I draw. Whether I fire or not depends on his next move. This emphasis on whether one might mentally fire a gun that is at that moment in a holster is pointless.
 
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DickWanner said:
Saying that the worst advice is "don't draw unless you know you are going to shoot" isn't bad advice at all. It is actually really good advice. At the moment you draw your firearm in self defense you MUST know that you are going to shoot or you are not actually in fear of death or harm and no have reason to draw your firearm. What happens after the draw is totally different from what was happening when you drew the firearms as the situation can be constantly changing. Advocating drawing without knowing that at that moment you must absolutely fire is advocating the drawing of a firearm to de-escalate a situation only and can get you into legal trouble or killed.

Let's put it this way. A BG approaches me on the street and is ten feet away from me when he produces a knife and demands my wallet. At this moment the BG has the means and intention to cause me serious harm and I must shoot him to protect myself. So I draw my firearm and while preparing to shoot. Once I draw the BG sees the gun and turns and flees. At THIS moment I am not in fear of harm and can no longer shoot even though half a second prior I absolutely knew that I must shoot the BG to protect myself. The situation changed and I had to adjust accordingly. The other issue could be me hesitating shooting for a second to see if the BG turns and flees. He doesn't and runs the knife through me and I'm dead due to the hesitation.

My whole beef is that you must know that you 100% have to shoot at the exact moment you are drawing or you do not have legal justification to draw. If the situation changes after the draw you have to adjust, but that does not change what you were thinking when you made the draw.
Click to expand...

Threaten me or my family with a knife, see if I let you walk away. Don't run you will just die tired.
 
economist said:
This is exactly what I was referencing -- a definition of some hypothetical scenario that MUST ABSOLUTELY BE TRUE before you ever draw a weapon. In that moment you can either be mentally prepared to be a lawyer or mentally prepared to fight. Nobody, including me, ever said "draw to de-escalate a situation". Draw to escalate a situation in your favor. If a guy is waving a knife at me, I draw. Whether I fire or not depends on his next move. This emphasis on whether one might mentally fire a gun that is at that moment in a holster is pointless.
Click to expand...

My apologies then, I must have just interpreted it differently.

Danrk6 said:
Threaten me or my family with a knife, see if I let you walk away. Don't run you will just die tired.
Click to expand...

I don't disagree with that, I'm just speaking in legal terms.

Timber said:
typical internet drivel from people who read too many magazines. try again there hero.
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Good for you [grin]
 
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0jCr8QSGYss




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I tried to embed, but it didn't seem to work, please click on link
 
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