They really just don't know how many of us there are....

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Hey guys I was just reading a interesting article on LTC permits renewals and new apps have been down statewide. This article was written in July so I am not sure if you guys talked about it yet. I found one quote from the spokeman for Dept of Public Safety and Security

"Both license to carry and FID cards are good for six years," said Terrel Harris, spokesman for the state Office of Public Safety and Security, so the numbers for licenses granted in any given year "doesn't mean that's all that's out there."

It's hard to draw conclusions, "certainly not for trends," from the statistics on licenses issued, said Wallace, because "I don't think anyone has any idea" how many applications there are. "There's no state oversight of the system as a whole."



[laugh2]

http://www.metrowestdailynews.com/news/police_and_fire/x104354195/Gun-license-requests-plummet-in-2009
 

gene

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It's hard to draw conclusions, "certainly not for trends," from the statistics on licenses issued, said Wallace, because "I don't think anyone has any idea" how many applications there are. "There's no state oversight of the system as a whole."

Now for the Democratic parties pivot strategy for difficult questions!

1. We are here to talk about law enforcement and judicial oversight!

2. I would like to answer that question but we are here to discuss criminals and judicial enforcement of existing laws.

3. Believe me when I say your question is a good one but my focus here is criminals and the lack legal sentencing that is on par with crimes committed!

4. We are running out of time so let me just say that we must do something about criminals and a legal system that continues to let them on the streets until the crimes become capital in nature!
 

terraformer

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Hey guys I was just reading a interesting article on LTC permits renewals and new apps have been down statewide. This article was written in July so I am not sure if you guys talked about it yet. I found one quote from the spokeman for Dept of Public Safety and Security

"Both license to carry and FID cards are good for six years," said Terrel Harris, spokesman for the state Office of Public Safety and Security, so the numbers for licenses granted in any given year "doesn't mean that's all that's out there."

It's hard to draw conclusions, "certainly not for trends," from the statistics on licenses issued, said Wallace, because "I don't think anyone has any idea" how many applications there are. "There's no state oversight of the system as a whole."



[laugh2]

http://www.metrowestdailynews.com/news/police_and_fire/x104354195/Gun-license-requests-plummet-in-2009

No, they don't know how many applications they have because there are PDs turning away people. This will cost them a great deal of money in the future. they have a choice to fix it now or have it fixed for them. Their choice.
 

MagGus1820

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No, they don't know how many applications they have because there are PDs turning away people. This will cost them a great deal of money in the future. they have a choice to fix it now or have it fixed for them. Their choice.

Do you believe it will get fixed?
 
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I have a friend that didn't renew this year. He's had a LTC for years (a lifetime license before that). Money is tight for him, and the $100 renewal isn't in the budget. I offered to front him the cash and he wasn't interested, he had sold guns to pay the mortgage for the last year and is down to just a "hunting shotgun" ( I explained that he needs at a minimum an FID for that too)

I think that's the plan in Mass. . . make it so expensive that you cant afford it. If you have to choose dinner for your kids or a LTC, your kids are going to "win"
 

RKG

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"How many of us there are" is, except for some nice lunches, entirely irrelevant unless and until "we" learn to exert our political clout as a block. Every time someone decides to support or vote for a hopeless candidate because "I want to send a message" or "I don't accept voting for the lesser of two evils" we surrender some measure of our potential to change things. (For instance, the odds of a Republican ouster of the Dems from the U.S. Senate grew far longer when outliers like Sharron Angle or Christine O'Donnell were nominated.) We are where we are, in part, because historically the gun owners have not been very good at coalescing.

Will things change this cycle? Beats me.
 

terraformer

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"How many of us there are" is, except for some nice lunches, entirely irrelevant unless and until "we" learn to exert our political clout as a block. Every time someone decides to support or vote for a hopeless candidate because "I want to send a message" or "I don't accept voting for the lesser of two evils" we surrender some measure of our potential to change things. (For instance, the odds of a Republican ouster of the Dems from the U.S. Senate grew far longer when outliers like Sharron Angle or Christine O'Donnell were nominated.) We are where we are, in part, because historically the gun owners have not been very good at coalescing.

Will things change this cycle? Beats me.

I think the real issue in this one is how many people apply v. how many applications actually hit the system. Think civil rights violations counselor... [grin] ie; How many people are getting turned away by PDs based on non statutory characteristics such as dress, race, hygiene, reputation, or are getting turned off by the process. I live with someone who refuses to get hers because of what she has to go through to get it.

Also, how many people apply but get denied without their application actually hitting the system. This is important info that needs to be collected and isn't. That is why those numbers are important.
 

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Terra, under the current MIRCS system, once they type your info into the system it's instantly transmitted to CHSB, so they "SHOULD" be able to know how many apply. However, my guess is that they need to create a new state office of the LTC/FID Counter, build a building or three, staff it with a few hundred people earning $75-150K and then maybe they might be able to tally up those numbers.

I agree that the great "unknown" are the many who refuse to subject themselves to the process. Those truly are not measurable. I know that there are a LOT of those 1.5 million (that was a bogus figure) LTC/FID holders in 1998 out there that gave up and didn't apply under the post-1998 system but still have their guns.
 

terraformer

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Terra, under the current MIRCS system, once they type your info into the system it's instantly transmitted to CHSB, so they "SHOULD" be able to know how many apply. However, my guess is that they need to create a new state office of the LTC/FID Counter, build a building or three, staff it with a few hundred people earning $75-150K and then maybe they might be able to tally up those numbers.

How many people fill out a paper app and head down to the PD check in hand (for those who don't require cash...) and have the LO review it and say nope, you don't qualify? How many people get turned away by PDs who say they don't give out paper applications? It should be our collective mission to remove any and all vestiges of "local control" from this system. "Local control" was one of the code words of the jim crow south and it doesn't belong up here in the north any more than it did down there when talking about a fundamental right.
 

Friday

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Our test case should arrive soon. With people being charged an application fee for a constitutional right clearly defined by SCOTUS this year, it is a matter of time. I get the feeling that quite a few folks have just stoped re-applying when their permits expired, as they don't have the cash, or just are plain sick of the system.

The "Arsenal" guy in Auburn being the exception, I think most people with a gun in their house have a good 2A case if they get jammed by the police
 

terraformer

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Our test case should arrive soon. With people being charged an application fee for a constitutional right clearly defined by SCOTUS this year, it is a matter of time. I get the feeling that quite a few folks have just stoped re-applying when their permits expired, as they don't have the cash, or just are plain sick of the system.

The "Arsenal" guy in Auburn being the exception, I think most people with a gun in their house have a good 2A case if they get jammed by the police

There may be licensing challenges in other states soon but you will likely see that challenge be on the permits to purchase in a state like NC where there is no permit to possess but there is to purchase. States like MA, NY, etc should wait for a little more precedent elsewhere before taking a full frontal challenge to licensing. But that doesn't preclude other challenges to other aspects of licensing... [grin]
 

buketduder

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Hopefully CT's "Permit" to purchase requirement gets challanged...the only difference being you don't need the permit to have a handgun/long gun in your home here....
 
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I think honestly that there are alot of gun haters in this state than lovers, most don't talk about it openly unless your discussing local events happening on the news last night...

I hope it gets better because no one can tell me that Mass gun laws as a whole including the rosters and licensing process/requirements, aren't a infringement on our 2A. But it could be worse I could live and DC and not have any 2A , then again I would prob hav bigger probs (esp unarmed) if I was living in DC ... I hear its not a great place outside of Penn Ave...
 
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