Thinking 7.62 x 39

Because for 7.62 x 39 and 5.45 x 39 it is literally 99% (or more!) of the ammo available on the market. Brass cased 7.62 x 39 isn't even sold in a lot of gun stores. On the other hand steel cased is everywhere. The only time anyone ever used brass for those guns in bulk was when there was a supply shortage about a decade or so ago that resulted in like an 8 month restriction in
ammo imports into the US.

These guns were practically DESIGNED to work with that ammo. You would be hard pressed to find any 7.62 x 39 better than Golden Tiger anyways, for general use.

The only reason I would ever run brass in an AK or SKS is if I was buying something like Jacketed Soft Points or something like that.

-Mike

Well maybe in your local gun store, but it's about as common in brass as .308 is from my experience. Any reasonable online ammo retailer has lots of it, and recently I was buying some odd brand up for around .25 that ran just great in my mini. Yes brass is more expensive but its not really expensive ammo.

I just get a kick out of how everyone hammers on mini 30s because they don't run well on bottom end steel case ammo, as if brass case ammo is somehow exotic. Steel case ammo in general is an exception to the rule if anything, only is so prolific with AK variants because of the country's who run them :). Doesn't make any gun that won't run steel inferior is my point.
 
Weird stuff, or low cap stuff, because every one of those guns I've seen for sale always had this melange of crap with it. So whatever colt was selling had to be
difficult to find or expensive. They usually looked like this...

View attachment 310270

You can see from here the obvious problem is obvious.

Cartridges like 5.45 x 39 and 7.62 x 39 were not designed to be used in guns like this that have straight mag feed towers. The shape of the cartridge leads to a dimensional
stacking thing. Even the mags depicted above, although they probably work, are best described as "still f***ing weird" and you can imagine the mechanical nightmare going
on inside that shit in the top part of the magazine. *shudder*. You know how you pick up one of those shitty doublestack 10 round cripplemags for (glock, HK, whatever?) and you
fill it (to capacity) with ammo, and you can still hear the ammo rattling around slightly in the mag? Imagine that same kind of f***ery, except with a RIFLE CARTRIDGE that's like 2.5 times as long.... [laugh]

For me this stuff is firmly in the "looks cool, but actually probably sucks" realm. But it's like anything else, as far as I'm concerned this isn't much different
than like guys who like actually sleeping with crazy broads. I don't have the tolerance or patience for that kind of garbage, but if someone else does, go for it... be my guest. [laugh]

-Mike
I'll agree with you that x39 in the AR using non standard mags is a problem and one that's not easy (if at all possible) to fix. However, when I heard that PSA was making an AR that used a lower that uses AK mags, that was the best solution to the problem. Does that mean it'll work with all AK mags? No, but if it's restricted to the most common mags like Magpul it's not asking too much for proper mags made for 7.62x39. The PSA KS47 is still relatively new and I wouldn't rush out to buy one just yet, but in a year or two if there's not a huge number of complaints about them, I would buy one.

As for the SKS, the prices are high compared to what they were, but $400 for a Chinese one isn't bad, even if it has a shit stock on it that I'm going to replace for a folding paratrooper stock anyway.
 
Well maybe in your local gun store, but it's about as common in brass as .308 is from my experience. Any reasonable online ammo retailer has lots of it, and recently I was buying some odd brand up for around .25 that ran just great in my mini. Yes brass is more expensive but its not really expensive ammo.

I just get a kick out of how everyone hammers on mini 30s because they don't run well on bottom end steel case ammo, as if brass case ammo is somehow exotic. Steel case ammo in general is an exception to the rule if anything, only is so prolific with AK variants because of the country's who run them :). Doesn't make any gun that won't run steel inferior is my point.
Not everybody buys ammo online for various reasons, but I agree that it's not an issue if you buy ammo online. That said, the obssession is in the price to shoot; the cheapest brass x39 ammo I can find costs $0.43/rd while steel cases ammo can go as low as 20 cents a round. Paying double for something never sits well with anyone.

But it's not like .300 BLK at 55 cents a round and 250 fps slower is a bargain over the brass cased 7.62x39. It's just the rifles that shoot it are more accurate than an AK or SKS.

Even reloading 7.62x39 is a pointless experience. I thought about it if the steel case ammo dried up I could reload it, but then I realized if I'm gonna spend the time reloading any bottleneck rifle cartridge that requires trimming the case, I'll just do it for .308 or .30-06. Goodness knows I can find that brass easy enough at the range.
 
The WASR10's may not be as good as an Arsenal or a Vz58, but they cost a lot less and are good AK's for the money. Century and IO are pure garbage that you'd be better off flushing money down the toilet. The WASR's were built to be military guns meant to last and go thru hell, the Century and IO's were built to meet a price point to compete with the WASR and make a profit, hence the use of a lot of cast parts.

I wouldn't rule out an SKS if you got one for a good price or just really wanted an SKS.

Seems every bolt action in 7.62x39 is a good rifle, but if you're gonna pay $400 or $500 for one, why get it over an SKS?

Can't rule out the PSA KS47 that uses AK mags. Time will tell how well these work and hold up tho.

I kind of think with how the prices for the AK market have gone and how to get a good one that's well made is $700 or more, if you really want a 7.62x39 rifle, the SKS becomes a good choice even at the 4-500 price. From what I hear, they tend to be a bit more accurate than the AK's too.
 
Well maybe in your local gun store, but it's about as common in brass as .308 is from my experience. Any reasonable online ammo retailer has lots of it, and recently I was buying some odd brand up for around .25 that ran just great in my mini. Yes brass is more expensive but its not really expensive ammo.

I just get a kick out of how everyone hammers on mini 30s because they don't run well on bottom end steel case ammo, as if brass case ammo is somehow exotic. Steel case ammo in general is an exception to the rule if anything, only is so prolific with AK variants because of the country's who run them :). Doesn't make any gun that won't run steel inferior is my point.

It is clearly inferior, even to an sks.

A mini 30 is absolutely pointless. Mags nobody uses and can’t run ammo the other 99% of the market uses.... guns that are chambered in 762 x 39 that can’t run steel are a waste of space and resources.

-Mike
 
The WASR10's may not be as good as an Arsenal or a Vz58, but they cost a lot less and are good AK's for the money. Century and IO are pure garbage that you'd be better off flushing money down the toilet. The WASR's were built to be military guns meant to last and go thru hell, the Century and IO's were built to meet a price point to compete with the WASR and make a profit, hence the use of a lot of cast parts.

I didn't know the Century and IO's used cast parts. I had an IO for a while, and it was flawless. Never jammed, etc. As for the Centurys, I'd heard about canted sights and similar issues, although everyone with the C39V2 seems to feel that they are OK.
 
WASA 10 - different than the WASR recommended by another user in a post above?
Both are Imported by Century Arms. I have been burned with Century built/imported AK's in the past and stay clear of them . Some function great, others ...well not so great.
 
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I didn't know the Century and IO's used cast parts. I had an IO for a while, and it was flawless. Never jammed, etc. As for the Centurys, I'd heard about canted sights and similar issues, although everyone with the C39V2 seems to feel that they are OK.
The canted sight AKs Century Arms produced were to my ( limited knowledge) several years ago. However I would not purchase an AK from century. How many here remember the AK's they sold with barrels chambered for 223 and not 5.45×39 .They have had numerous production issues on many of their firearms. If you have the $$$$$ I suggest an Arsenal AK. Milled receiver......... again just my opinion.
 
I wouldn’t mind a 7.62x39 upper for one of my ARs. Just to have something different without breaking the bank for ammo, like a 458 SOCOM or something.

I have 9mm, 300BLK, .223/5.56, and .308 already, so why not add another caliber? I do need a money tree though.
 
I have a mini 30 and it has only lived off Tula and Golden Tiger! It is not super accurate
I bought one 5 years ago it wouldn't fire any Tula. Bought price for twice the price and fired without any problems. Is yours newer? Maybe they made changes to fire steel ammo due to alot of complaints. Mini-30 Firing pin. If they made the Mini 30 as reliable as a AK or SKS more people would buy them and pay the more money for quality.
 
I bought one 5 years ago it wouldn't fire any Tula. Bought price for twice the price and fired without any problems. Is yours newer? Maybe they made changes to fire steel ammo due to alot of complaints. Mini-30 Firing pin. If they made the Mini 30 as reliable as a AK or SKS more people would buy them and pay the more money for quality.


I recall searching mfg date and learining it was made in 2005
 
I have to say, the VZ58 is one of the best 7.62x39 rifles I've shot. I first got a Century VZ 2008 from a member on the board here and fell in love after doing a little tuning up. I then got a Czech Point CZ 58 and am sold. I don't really bother shooting my AKs that much now. See if an FFL would get one in and do some compliance work for you. Atlantic has them now for $1049. Lots of pre-ban mags out there. Worth every penny.


vz58czech-1-of-16-jpg-product-product-product-product-product-product-product-product-product-product-product-product-produc-1.jpg
 
What's different about the VZ over the AK? Long stroke vs. short stroke, stock dimensions, or what?

Those things, plus weight. Milling. Size of the ejection port. Ability to reload with stripper clips. Presence of a BHO. And, of course, every part of the internals is completely different from the AK.

The only thing they really have in common is caliber and, perhaps, overall aesthetics.
 
The early century built VZ's did not have chrome lines barrels. Which is not an issue if you clean your rifle after each use. The Atlantic firearms VZ's are IMO very well made.
 
Those things, plus weight. Milling. Size of the ejection port. Ability to reload with stripper clips. Presence of a BHO. And, of course, every part of the internals is completely different from the AK.

The only thing they really have in common is caliber and, perhaps, overall aesthetics.

They're basically different in every regard except caliber.





 
Plus the VZ is not a "copycat"... I have a bonesteel arms brake for $29 for the Century and it reduces recoil to .22 magnum levels. It is a direct copy of the Slovianian army brake. I bought a Czech made brake on Ebay direct from a gun smith in the Czech republic for $69...not much of a difference. Go with the Bonesteel arms brake that is like the one in this video. You'll be amazed.


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3HuGSjwy6lQ
 
In the obscure and expensive 7.62x39 category, you could try looking for either one of these C&Rs:

Czech VZ 52/57 - the VZ 52 reworked for 7.62x39

IMG_6213-1024x703.jpg


Or the Hakim's little brother, the Rashid carbine:

Rashid78.1.jpg


Slightly less likely to amputate your thumb than the Hakim - because the bolt's smaller.
 
In the obscure and expensive 7.62x39 category, you could try looking for either one of these C&Rs:

Czech VZ 52/57 - the VZ 52 reworked for 7.62x39

Karl from InRange loved his x39 Vz. 52/57 so much that he threw it into a dumpster [laugh]

 
In the obscure and expensive 7.62x39 category, you could try looking for either one of these C&Rs:

Czech VZ 52/57 - the VZ 52 reworked for 7.62x39

IMG_6213-1024x703.jpg


Or the Hakim's little brother, the Rashid carbine:

Rashid78.1.jpg


Slightly less likely to amputate your thumb than the Hakim - because the bolt's smaller.
I have a VZ 52 in the original caliber and they are not easily found especially chambered in 7.62x39, as to the Rashid they are demanding BIG money.
 
I have a VZ 52 in the original caliber and they are not easily found especially chambered in 7.62x39, as to the Rashid they are demanding BIG money.

I've got a VZ 52 as well, wish ammo was easier to find. Interesting rifle. Mine is not a nice one, cosmetically speaking.

What are Rashids going for? Haven't been following prices, had mine for years.
 
I bought one 5 years ago it wouldn't fire any Tula. Bought price for twice the price and fired without any problems. Is yours newer? Maybe they made changes to fire steel ammo due to alot of complaints. Mini-30 Firing pin. If they made the Mini 30 as reliable as a AK or SKS more people would buy them and pay the more money for quality.

Swooping in from the shadows of lurkville to verify this fix for the Mini-30 and steel case ammo: 100% reliability with all steel case surplus ammo is possible but not always out of the factory. After replacing the Ruger Mini-30 (2018) firing pin with a new pin from firingpins.com the issue is resolved. Tried so many other things to get this fixed. Should have done this as soon as I brought it home. The struggle was real. Ruger firing pin might be just shy of the length spec it needs to properly ignite the hard primers on steel case. The swap can be done on the workbench at home if you’re comfortable or a gunsmith can get it done. You must do some minor fitting to ensure you are not causing damage to the bolt and thorough testing with your ammo of choice should be undertaken to ensure you are not puncturing any primers. You do NOT want that happening.

All in all this is the best upgrade to my mini-30. I have done more than I’d like to admit. After (and only after) the firing pin replacement am I getting 100% reliability on Tula, Red Army Standard, and all other junk I throw at it. 1000’s downrange without a hiccup. If I take my time and do my part I get 1 MOA at 100 yards with steel case Red Army. I agree, this sounds crazy and it honestly makes me feel like I’ve done something wrong. No regrets.

Mini-30 is a beautiful beast that requires taming and a good deal of patience to optimize. Its final form can be glorious but the path there is not for everyone or their budget. If you’re not about tinkering or the impatient type I’d say the VZ58 is an excellent option to look at that should be good to go out of the box.
 
it is well known that the standard firing pin has insufficient extrusion to ignite most berdan primed ammo. Any modification to increase the firing pin extrusion will remedy. As you point out comes with some potential risks although these are probably overblown.

With regards to an aftermarket firing pin I would keep an eye on your overall firing pin extrusion because depending on where that firing pin is meeting with the bolt the extrusion could increase over time. can also just occasionally inspect your steel cases and measure the depth of primer strike.

we know that these modifications work on steel cased ammo what I don’t know is how the rifle behaves at say 10k rounds.
 
I’ve owned a Norinco underfolder, a WASR, and a Vz58. The Vz58 is by far the best-made and most accurate. The WASR is great too, since I extended the LOP. Both just never seem to malfunction.

In fairness, I bought the WASR when they cost around six bills.
The VZ 58 is not an AK and will not take AK mags, but it is a great looking rifle.
 
I have 2 AR15 in 7.62x39 they both work great. Any of the newly made magazines work great say within the last five years . Put an extra power hammer spring in and I have had zero issues. The guys spouting of that they suck probably never owned one but read something bad and took it as gospel.
 
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