So, an 870 has been on my wish list for quite some time. Main purpose would be for "home defense". Can anyone suggest what kind of ammo I should use? I live in a newly constructed condo, with neighbors to left right and across the hall. My biggest concern is obviously over-penetration. What's the lightest most effective round I could use? Or should I just ditch this idea and stick with a handgun?
-
If you enjoy the forum please consider supporting it by signing up for a NES Membership The benefits pay for the membership many times over.
-
Be sure to enter the NES/Pioneer Valley Arms February Giveaway ***Smith & Wesson SD9VE 9MM***
Thinking about an 870...
- Thread starter Pants
- Start date
So many opinions about this and the penetrating capacity of the shotgun for home defense. Traditionally 00 Buck, Jeff Cooper #4 Buck, others birdshot, Ayoob shotgun for your "safe room or fall back position otherwise a handgun" .... An 870 is a good choice in a defensive shotgun, you get into the Express vs non-Express versions, the Express versions not being made to police standards...I can only say this: If you want a shotgun you can't go wrong with a Remington 870 IMO regardless of flavor. I keep another brand (wish it were a Remington because I have always liked them) with 00 Buck (properly secured, of course). For close in maneuverability, a handgun has its advantages, yet hands down I really think that in many applications a shotgun trumps a handgun for home defense. Some leading authorities disagree and have good reason for saying so. YMMV...just my two euros
Last edited:
Golddiggie
NES Member
I asked pretty much the same thing when I picked up my 870... Got a couple boxes of #4 birdshot shells to use for home defense. Also got a box of 00 buck and slugs. ![[smile]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/001.gif "Smile [smile]")
While my .45 ACP is the first thing I'll grab if a break-in happens, it's comforting knowing that the shotgun is only a few feet away.
IMO, racking the slide on a pump shotgun (or good sized handgun) is pretty much an universal message to any criminals to "get the fvck out or the next sound you hear will be the last".
While my .45 ACP is the first thing I'll grab if a break-in happens, it's comforting knowing that the shotgun is only a few feet away. IMO, racking the slide on a pump shotgun (or good sized handgun) is pretty much an universal message to any criminals to "get the fvck out or the next sound you hear will be the last".
Gidge
NES Member
Golddiggie
NES Member
The thought behind the #4 shot was it will work on the home invader but not go outside the house. At <20' range, it will be rather effective on someone (unless they have on body armor). If nothing else, it will fvck them up. Having it NOT leave the house (inside and outside walls) is a concern for me. While I don't have people on the other side of the walls, I don't want to have the rounds hit someone's vehicle (especially mine).
All that being said, as I mentioned, I'll most likely be grabbing my high capacity .45 ACP first. With hollow points in those magazines (14 or 15 in each) I shouldn't have much issue if the need ever comes up. Fortunately, I live in a nice area, so I'm not overly concerned.
I definitely plan on having plenty of 00 buck on hand. As of right now, I usually keep my S&W 642 or my .40 handy. So do I even bother picking up the shotgun right now and use my money towards something else? I also have an AR near by, so I'm pretty well stocked up. haha I'm just having a real hard time deciding.
If you're worried about the shotty going thru walls, why aren't you worried about the45 doing the same thing. It has more penetrating ability that the shotty.
To the OP: get the 870. It's a great gun and if you decide to use it on the range for trap, etc, you can inexpensively swap out the barrel. The barrels are plentiful in all lengths.
Last edited:
I mirror what Pilgrim said. the 45 will pass thru walls easily, and within 20' the 870 is going to punch a softball size hole in multiple layers of wall with heavier loads. Get the 870 and have a great gun bud, i have an 870 express and it is a champ. came with slug barrel and choked smooth bore, get some!
Dom
Dom
Golddiggie
NES Member
I was thinking, originally, of just getting 00 buck for home defense loads. I might just use the #4 shot up at a range and refill with 00 buck actually. Thinking about it a bit more, chances are the shots will be down the stairs (from the 2nd floor to the first) so any 'stray shots' will either hit the front door, or ground outside. I might alternate the #4 and 00 in the shotgun.
As for the .45 ACP rounds... I'm more confident with the pistol. I won't 'spray and pray' with it. I also figured that by the time the .45 rounds (230g hollow points) went through the inside wall, insulation, and hit the outside wall, they would have spent enough energy to not go much further. I don't have any actual data on that, so I could be off-base. Does sound like something that we should test though. Build up some mock walls and use different rounds on them at different ranges to see the effects. Group shoot?? Hopefully we can do it in NH, so I can take part.
TayNinh_66
NES Member
I live in dense urban area, snubby is always nearby, figure HP's may not penetrate too many walls.
Mossy is in safe, pretty much inaccessible in event of emergency. It's loaded w/ 71/2's but a box of 00's is right next to it.
Mossy is in safe, pretty much inaccessible in event of emergency. It's loaded w/ 71/2's but a box of 00's is right next to it.
I use an 870 express youth model in 20ga with #3 buck. The youth is a bit shorter, and comes with a 20 or 21" barrel which is great overall for an in-the-house length. I'm 6' tall, but still find this a lot of fun for backyard trap, as the small size makes it really easy to swing compared to my 12 ga 11-87 sporting clays.
ToddDubya
NES Member
I second this whole series. Short of bird shot, just about everything goes through walls and lots of them. I thought I saw a video of "less-than-lethal" shotgun rounds that also made a mockery of walls. I'll see if I can find it, but no promises.
Golddiggie
NES Member
Alright, finally read from that link... Going to change up the home loads with something that will do good (for me, bad to them). Just means I need to get more 00 buck rounds. Wonder if I should alternate slug and 00 buck...
![[thinking]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/010.gif "Thinking [thinking]")
Alright, finally read from that link... Going to change up the home loads with something that will do good (for me, bad to them). Just means I need to get more 00 buck rounds. Wonder if I should alternate slug and 00 buck...
I would keep one type of ammo in the tube. with the 870 it's fairly easy to do a slug changeover.
Magpul Slug Changeovers - YouTube
Just grab a couple snap caps and practice a few times every night or every other night.
What's the functional difference other than less polished metal finish and less fancy wood on the Express, which makes it less expensive ???
Alright, finally read from that link... Going to change up the home loads with something that will do good (for me, bad to them). Just means I need to get more 00 buck rounds. Wonder if I should alternate slug and 00 buck...
WHY. I ask this to people all the time who want to alternate slugs and buck. WHY.
Slugs are good for defeating barriers, taking precision shots (e.g. hostage shot), and shooting at long range (aka everything buckshot isn't good at). If you ever anticipate needing these capabilities for your own shotgun, the only thing alternating slugs and buck is going to accomplish is to ensure that you have no idea what round is in the chamber. If you want to run slugs, you can do two things:
1. Keep slugs in a side saddle and learn how to perform a slug change over
2. Keep buck in the mag tube but purposely download by one (works better if you have an extended mag tube). If you need a slug, simply top off the mag tube with a slug and charge the weapon. Depending on the situation, you can either put another slug in the tube (now you have 2 slugs in a row ready to go), or top off with buck.
see:
The Box O' Truth #1 - The Original Box O' Truth - Page 1
the .45 goes thru 12 sheets of wallboard and keeps going
Last edited:
Golddiggie
NES Member
I was thinking about/considering maybe of doing the alternating shells... After looking at the comments, I can see why not to do it (and thinking about it a bit). I could put one, or two, on the sidesaddle in case I need them (pray I never do). Just means I need to pick up a few boxes of 00 buck loads now. Also need to get out to a range to fire it so that I know, exactly, what to expect. Firing it for the first time in an invasion scenario is NOT a good idea, IMO. Of course, as I've already said, chances are I'll be grabbing for my high capacity 45 first. IF I've gone through those [4] magazines, then the cops will probably already be there. If not, then either the invaders are dead, gone, or I'm dead.
That Guy
Banned
The one thing I would disagree with that link is the lessons at the end where he dispels the myth about not having to aim the shotgun because of it's spread.
While it is true that you do still need to aim because the spread is only 2 1/2", there is something that is missed. Take a look at your chest and see how the 2 1/2" spread looks pretty much anywhere on your chest - it makes almost any solid hit into a solid vital shot (heart, spine, etc.). A shot from a 9mm in the same spot might be through and through the chest wall, lung and back without stopping the intruder whereas the same placement with a 2 1/2" spread from buckshot will almost certainly hit either the spine or the heart.
Obviously you need to aim, but the spread of a shotgun is important - it's what makes it a good HD weapon.
While it is true that you do still need to aim because the spread is only 2 1/2", there is something that is missed. Take a look at your chest and see how the 2 1/2" spread looks pretty much anywhere on your chest - it makes almost any solid hit into a solid vital shot (heart, spine, etc.). A shot from a 9mm in the same spot might be through and through the chest wall, lung and back without stopping the intruder whereas the same placement with a 2 1/2" spread from buckshot will almost certainly hit either the spine or the heart.
Obviously you need to aim, but the spread of a shotgun is important - it's what makes it a good HD weapon.
Golddiggie
NES Member
Only thing I think they need to do is add some insulation between the pairs. Make it like an outside wall, which is also thicker than an inside wall. Doing just wallboard/sheetrock with nothing between is only good to show for inside to inside shooting. It also makes me want to get a better door for the bedroom once I get to my next place. If I can't buy one, I'll make it.
Golddiggie
NES Member
Anyone with half a brain, hearing either a full size .45 (1911) having one chambered, or a shotgun getting one chambered would have serious second thoughts about moving forward. Problem is, the people with less than half a brain. So, you need to be prepared to take out 'the trash' in such an instance. Basically, if someone has broken into my home, the first thing I'll do is grab my firearm, and phone. After getting ready, put the phone on speaker and call the cops. If the invaders come to me, then I'll end them. I'm NOT going to go around the house looking for them. That's how you get killed.
