They don't because it's never challenged. It's almost a lost cause in this state to begin with, but that does not excuse the fact that the institutions that we place our trust in only blow whispers of foul into the wind. GOAL needs to do more. They need to market themselves better. The majority of the public doesn’t educate themselves about gun laws by searching through forums such as this one. GOAL needs to start funding educational advertisements across this state. I’d rather have GOAL do that than send me a paper every other month.
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This isn't good news.
- Thread starter Garys
- Start date
They don't because it's never challenged. It's almost a lost cause in this state to begin with, but that does not excuse the fact that the institutions that we place our trust in only blow whispers of foul into the wind. GOAL needs to do more. They need to market themselves better. The majority of the public doesn’t educate themselves about gun laws by searching through forums such as this one. GOAL needs to start funding educational advertisements across this state. I’d rather have GOAL do that than send me a paper every other month.
Someone from GOAL was on tv being interviewed on Channel 56's news at 10. He mentioned that high power AR rifles were used nationally in competition, and said a few other things but I can't remember right now. I looked for a video feed like on WLVI's web site but can't find anything.
ignium- I like GOAL and I am a member. However they are a tiny. We are in the minority in MA and they can only do so much. Until everyone wants a firearm and respects the 2A it's an uphill battle. We can blame the citizens of MA... and the scum bags that commit these pathetic acts of violence.
I hear time and time again about our boys in blue. I respect them, they have a tough job. But you mean to tell me that none of them had a clue as to what the job would entail. It’s the typical anti-2nd amendment crowd to make you feel that if you are not for some gun control than you are equivalent to being a cop or child killer. I’m personally offended when they try to pull such crap over my eyes and the eyes of non gun owners. We all know that guns don’t cause crime or seduce a crazed man to kill people in a bar.
This state has been awarded the prestigious honor of being the most violent state in the New England area. So what is it about MA. society that makes us so violent? Do we have the back bone to admit to the fact that we are violent? I own an AR15 and not once has that rifle gotten out of its case and whisper evil thoughts into my head at night. We have a huge drug problem and are being over run by MS13 members. These are the problems that the politicians are not facing. They are not doing the job that they are supposed to do. All of them took an oath to defend the constitution and protect our rights, not to stomp all over them because they’re too dammed inept to fix the real problems that our state faces.
GOAL is a great organization (I’m a member myself) but it needs to re-invent itself. The organization needs to shape itself into a public service. An institution that wants to curb crime and promote personal responsibility and most importantly accountability. If Philip Morris can do it so can GOAL. Not that GOAL ever killed anyone, but you get my drift.
I come to this forum to learn to share and most importantly to laugh. But what saddens me is that we ourselves have become victims of the very institutions that are supposed to support us and our rights. I don’t know about you but I’m tired of feeling guilty about being a law abiding, tax paying gun owner in this state, and I’ll make sure that GOAL is aware of that. Sorry for the rant it’s late and I’m fed up.
This state has been awarded the prestigious honor of being the most violent state in the New England area. So what is it about MA. society that makes us so violent? Do we have the back bone to admit to the fact that we are violent? I own an AR15 and not once has that rifle gotten out of its case and whisper evil thoughts into my head at night. We have a huge drug problem and are being over run by MS13 members. These are the problems that the politicians are not facing. They are not doing the job that they are supposed to do. All of them took an oath to defend the constitution and protect our rights, not to stomp all over them because they’re too dammed inept to fix the real problems that our state faces.
GOAL is a great organization (I’m a member myself) but it needs to re-invent itself. The organization needs to shape itself into a public service. An institution that wants to curb crime and promote personal responsibility and most importantly accountability. If Philip Morris can do it so can GOAL. Not that GOAL ever killed anyone, but you get my drift.
I come to this forum to learn to share and most importantly to laugh. But what saddens me is that we ourselves have become victims of the very institutions that are supposed to support us and our rights. I don’t know about you but I’m tired of feeling guilty about being a law abiding, tax paying gun owner in this state, and I’ll make sure that GOAL is aware of that. Sorry for the rant it’s late and I’m fed up.
No rant.. good stuff. I too like to learn and have fun in this place. However I don't feel guilty at all for being a gun owner. I'm quite proud of it. I'm proud of the fact that I know and shoot with some of the most courteous and well balanced people, including most folks on this forum.
![[wink]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/002.gif "Wink [wink]")
I could go on and on about what I think about people that are against all hand guns but I'm tired too.
None of us should feel guilty about being an honest. lawful, law abiding tax paying gun owner. What we should be doing is getting mad at being treated worse than 2nd class citizens because we happen to believe in a right that was granted to us LONG before MA ever became a Commie, illegal alien loving, liberal, knee jerk react and pass a bill rather than deal with the REAL problem state. Every single one of us needs to keep writing and calling our <cough> beloved legicritters to let them know that CRIME needs to be addressed and NOT by enacting yet more assinine laws that do nothing to stop the BS. Yes, we pay GOAL to help us on the Hill, but they can't do it alone. There's only 5 or so in the office for crissakes. And no matter how big their shovel is, they can't battle the tide alone.
You're not the only one fed up hun. I'm imprisoned in this state and I have no clue as to how long. I can't begin to tell you how much I hate this bloody state. I can't begin to tell you how much I hate liberals for wanting to disarm me and take away my right to self defense. I wish every friggin one of them could be a VICTIM of violent crime so they know what it's like to walk in MY shoes and how it feels to be afraid of every single little sound during the night. I wish they could all be stalked. I wish they could all feel what it's like to have someone's hands around their throats choking the life out of them and knowing you were going to die. I would wish they got raped too, but I can't. No one should go through that...and as much as I wish I could, I can't even wish that on my enemies.
Speaking of rants...sorry. My knee is acking like a GD toothache and I can't sleep because of it. I'm tired and cranky at the moment. To sum it up - DON'T feel guilty. Push that shit right back at THEM.
When I saw this on the news last night, I knew the BS would start to fly out of media. This is not good. They reported that he had "upgraded" his license several years back. The part about military grade weapons really made me laugh-angrilly, and then to listen to the local officials spew their own nonsense. Well folks, you can count on new restrictions real soon, buy them now while you can,Christmas is almost here.
calsdad
NES Member
I feel the same way - I am relatively new to this "gun thing" - I took the NRA pistol course a few months back and finally got around to applying for my Class A LTC which I just received this past Friday.
Quite frankly most of my interest in guns comes not from any overriding fear of crime, since in my 42 years I have never been a victim of any crime where I felt a gun might have come in handy. But I have been a history buff since I was old enough to read and grew up reading stuff like Guadacanal Diary and numerous other bloody books about WWII. My grandparents used to bring me to the April 19th re-enactments in Lexington every year when I was a kid to. So I guess you could say that at any early age I was pretty familiar with what an armed citizenry can do to defend themselves, and thru the WWII history what happens to people when they can't defend themselves.
All that being said I agree - here in MA we have a completely crappy situation. Everybody here on this forum takes it personally because we own guns - but the way I see it the problem goes much deeper than that.
But there has to be a way to turn it around, politics change all the time, and there is ample evidence that gun bans do not work to keep crime down. I have read all the NRA stuff - and JPFO, and Halbrook, etc. and am convinced of the need to have an armed citizenry.
Problem is that I believe we as gun owners are going about this the wrong way - when we talk to non-gun owners we come across badly. We need to do something to change that. I would love to get together with like minded people and start trying to come up with some solutions - for the time being I am working on people I know to bring them 'over to the dark side'. This is going to be a slow educational process. But it can be done.
That's the only way to help things and I'm sure most of us do this. This is just a place where we as gun owners get to voice our concerns amongst ourselves- my wife would get tired of listening to me otherwise!
Reality check folks:
- Jim Wallace from GOAL was interviewed last night by one snews channel (ch. 56) and he did a credible (to anyone that actually listened with an open mind) job of defending our positions.
- GOAL has an educational corporation that Jon Green runs training from. His specific job is to get the word out and educate people in a non-political way (it's a IRS recognized charitable org).
Now some interesting venue questions that I've been biting my lip on:
- MGLs has an absolute deadline for any entertainment or having any liquor in clubs of 2AM! If this was enforced, why were patrons still in the club? Why was a "dancer" still on stage? The doors should have been locked so people could only exit at that hour.
- Detail cops don't usually have cruisers with them, but use POVs. The story of two detail cops on scene and one cop trying to access his patrol rifle doesn't jive with me. An interview with the chief said that the two cops that were shot were still in their vehicles (implying that they were arriving after a 911 call). Again this doesn't jive with the other part of the detail cop story with the info we have.
- This place sounds to me like an "after hours" (read: illegal) operation that was just cruising for trouble.
- This was a personal vendetta and much like trying to stop a suicide bomber, no legislation will stop this sort of person. Only a quick lead injection can stop someone hell-bent on causing murder and mayhem! It was a tragedy that innocent people were victims of such action, but society is never pure and such things will occur from time to time no matter what precautions are taken.
Anti-gun rhetoric by the chief and mayor do nothing to prevent another occurrence and focus on the "wrong problem" over the spilled blood.
With the obvious anti-gun mentality of the chief and mayor, I have to wonder what their SOP is for responding to "shooting" calls! I doubt that many chiefs would condone a response to such calls with officers immediately grabbing their patrol rifles upon arrival . . . and sometimes it all goes down too fast for them to get back to the cruiser to retrieve it after assessment of the scene.
Real life, NO handgun is adequate to take on someone with a rifle/shotgun! NO vest that is commonly worn is adequate against a rifle threat either . . . and the ballistic vests rated for rifle are too heavy and uncomfortable for officers to wear full-time, "just in case"! Not to mention they are too expensive for a PD to afford to purchase.
I don't think we have all the facts adequate to understand everything that went down or how it could have been prevented in advance.
Just some random thoughts on the situation.
- Jim Wallace from GOAL was interviewed last night by one snews channel (ch. 56) and he did a credible (to anyone that actually listened with an open mind) job of defending our positions.
- GOAL has an educational corporation that Jon Green runs training from. His specific job is to get the word out and educate people in a non-political way (it's a IRS recognized charitable org).
Now some interesting venue questions that I've been biting my lip on:
- MGLs has an absolute deadline for any entertainment or having any liquor in clubs of 2AM! If this was enforced, why were patrons still in the club? Why was a "dancer" still on stage? The doors should have been locked so people could only exit at that hour.
- Detail cops don't usually have cruisers with them, but use POVs. The story of two detail cops on scene and one cop trying to access his patrol rifle doesn't jive with me. An interview with the chief said that the two cops that were shot were still in their vehicles (implying that they were arriving after a 911 call). Again this doesn't jive with the other part of the detail cop story with the info we have.
- This place sounds to me like an "after hours" (read: illegal) operation that was just cruising for trouble.
- This was a personal vendetta and much like trying to stop a suicide bomber, no legislation will stop this sort of person. Only a quick lead injection can stop someone hell-bent on causing murder and mayhem! It was a tragedy that innocent people were victims of such action, but society is never pure and such things will occur from time to time no matter what precautions are taken.
Anti-gun rhetoric by the chief and mayor do nothing to prevent another occurrence and focus on the "wrong problem" over the spilled blood.
With the obvious anti-gun mentality of the chief and mayor, I have to wonder what their SOP is for responding to "shooting" calls! I doubt that many chiefs would condone a response to such calls with officers immediately grabbing their patrol rifles upon arrival . . . and sometimes it all goes down too fast for them to get back to the cruiser to retrieve it after assessment of the scene.
Real life, NO handgun is adequate to take on someone with a rifle/shotgun! NO vest that is commonly worn is adequate against a rifle threat either . . . and the ballistic vests rated for rifle are too heavy and uncomfortable for officers to wear full-time, "just in case"! Not to mention they are too expensive for a PD to afford to purchase.
I don't think we have all the facts adequate to understand everything that went down or how it could have been prevented in advance.
Just some random thoughts on the situation.
I stated before that I am a member of goal. The programs that they have are great but they only cater to gun owners or those who are interested. What I'm saying is GOAL and other Pro-2nd organizations need to start talking about how we should battle crime. We need to get into the real problems that lead to violent activity. Imagine if in the future the reason why crime went down was because of ideas that came from organizations such as Goal.
The anti-gunners get recognition because they come across as caring for the publics' safety. Even though we know they don't do squat about it. Goal and other organizations need to make it a mission to do exactly what the anti-gunner promise (a safer environment). I am personally fed up with the crime in this state and it's not because it endangers my rights, but because it creates such a debilitating atmosphere for all the good citizens of this state. Goal needs to be viewed as the concerned citizenry that it is. Put up bill boards (ideas later). Start good will programs in the crime infested areas of the state. We need to make a concerted effort to lower crime in this state. We're the only ones who can do it.
The anti-gunners get recognition because they come across as caring for the publics' safety. Even though we know they don't do squat about it. Goal and other organizations need to make it a mission to do exactly what the anti-gunner promise (a safer environment). I am personally fed up with the crime in this state and it's not because it endangers my rights, but because it creates such a debilitating atmosphere for all the good citizens of this state. Goal needs to be viewed as the concerned citizenry that it is. Put up bill boards (ideas later). Start good will programs in the crime infested areas of the state. We need to make a concerted effort to lower crime in this state. We're the only ones who can do it.
well... reading from yesterday to today... this went from bad... to worse.
The fact that he was and LTC-A holder and had a legal firearm will fuel the anits
I feel for anyone in Newbedford, that mayor is worse them mubles from what I have read and this will only give him more "ammo" Good luck getting even an FID card in the future.
I can tell you this though...
I'm saving all my pennys to buy me an AR before they ban them... then I'm gonna just pray they can never get a registration act in to come take it away.
The fact that he was and LTC-A holder and had a legal firearm will fuel the anits
I feel for anyone in Newbedford, that mayor is worse them mubles from what I have read and this will only give him more "ammo" Good luck getting even an FID card in the future.
I can tell you this though...
I'm saving all my pennys to buy me an AR before they ban them... then I'm gonna just pray they can never get a registration act in to come take it away.
Today's Boston Globe article is filled with stuff I didn't see anywhere else.
<<NEW BEDFORD -- The lights were on, and the crowd was thinning out as the Foxy Lady strip club wound down to closing time at 2 a.m. yesterday. Monday night had been unusually slow, and only three or four patrons still lingered inside the mirrored lounge. The managers, dancers, and waitresses were eager to head home.
Just then, a gunman -- masked, dressed in black, and armed with a high-powered military-style rifle -- burst through a back door into the kitchen, grabbed one of the dancers, and screamed, "This is not a joke."
The man identified as the gunman, Scott C. Medeiros, angry over a breakup with a club bartender, had been banned from the Foxy Lady on Route 6. Pointing his rifle from his hip, he hustled the dancers and waitresses, all 14 of them, into a dressing room, telling them he wasn't after them.
Then, police and employees said, he opened fire in the lounge, killing two managers, Robert Carreiro, 33, and Tory Marandos, 30, as they tried to run outside. When the first two police officers arrived, responding to reports of gunshots, Medeiros stood outside the club and sprayed their cruiser with bullets, wounding them.
As 100 officers surrounded the club, Medeiros telephoned them from inside and told them he would not surrender. Inside the dressing room, he ripped off his mask and let the women leave the club.
At about 5 a.m., three hours after he had stormed the club, police officers carrying automatic weapons swarmed in and found Medeiros dead. He had shot himself, Mayor Scott W. Lang said.
Medeiros, a 35-year-old electronics repairman from neighboring Freetown, had no criminal record and was licensed to carry a rifle. A few years ago, he installed the Foxy Lady's security cameras. But employees said he was furious at being thrown out of the club two weeks ago, when he came in to see his former girlfriend, who tended bar.
Lang said Medeiros was "hell-bent on destruction," and the club's owner, Thomas Tsoumas, said Medeiros was apparently hunting for Carreiro. Carreiro had a child with the bartender who had broken up with Medeiros and had kicked Medeiros out of the club.
"He came back, in his own mind, to settle the score," Tsoumas said.
Employees and police said that when Medeiros entered the club, he was yelling angrily. He wore a black ski mask and bulletproof vest and carried a tote bag with ammunition. When he first walked into the lounge, he fired almost immediately, but didn't hit anyone, employees said.
"Everybody just scattered," said Jessica Blair, 19, a waitress.
Medeiros then pushed the women -- a bartender, three waitresses, and 10 dancers -- into the dressing room, where they huddled together.
Then Medeiros walked back into the lounge, where he came face to face with Ned Tsouprake, a club security guard who had been in the foyer, calling a cab for a patron. Tsouprake said he had heard the previous shots and seen smoke in the club, but figured someone had set off firecrackers.
He didn't realize someone was firing a rifle until Medeiros pointed the barrel at him and squeezed the trigger. "I don't have any idea how it missed me," Tsouprake said.
Tsouprake, 46, said he then saw Carreiro run past him and dive for cover near the foyer. Medeiros fired and hit Carreiro. Police later found Carreiro's body in the parking lot outside the club, where he had apparently stumbled out and collapsed.
Medeiros shot Marandos next, killing him inside the club, employees said. The two had been friends, and just two months ago Medeiros installed a satellite dish at Marandos's apartment in New Bedford.
With Medeiros watching over them, two female employees dragged Marandos's body through a side door onto the sidewalk, said Nick Santiago, a taxi driver who saw the scene from his cab outside the club. "They were screaming," Santiago said of the women. "I tried to help them out, but there was no way of getting in there."
Santiago said the women dropped Marandos's body and ran while he drove into the nightclub's parking lot and did a U-turn. Medeiros was there, pointed his rifle at Santiago, and threatened him: "He told me to 'get the hell out of here, before I shoot you,' " Santiago said.
"I thought I was going to die," he said.
By then, police were being flooded with 911 calls, including one from the mayor. Lang said the gunfire was so loud it woke him at his home 2 miles from the club.
When the first cruiser pulled up to the club, Medeiros opened fire, riddling the car with more than a dozen bullets, police said. The bullets struck Officer Joshua Fernandes, 27 -- a five-year veteran of the force, who was behind the wheel -- in the cheek, and Officer Steve Wadman, 28 -- who joined the force a year ago -- in both arms and the hip. Fernandes drove to St. Luke's Hospital, 2 miles away. Their wounds were not life-threatening.
Medeiros traded fire briefly with other officers, though he struck none, and eventually retreated into the club as 100 state and local officers, including hostage negotiators and SWAT teams, rushed to the club. Medeiros called police at about 2:40 a.m., but refused to negotiate, Lang said.
"He was not contrite; that's for sure," Lang said.
Medeiros stalked into the dressing room, ripped off his ski mask and told the women they could leave around 3 a.m. As they ran outside, officers used their bullet-pocked cruisers to shield them.
About two hours later, confident that all the employees and patrons were out of the building, officers stormed into the club, guns drawn. Inside, they detonated flash bangs, devices that emit blinding light and blasting sound. But they found Medeiros dead, apparently struck with a .223 caliber bullet from his own rifle, said Captain Richard M. Spirlet of the New Bedford police.
During the shooting, Glenn Goncalves, 46, a patron, was also hit in both legs, but it was not clear how.
The assault was a painful shock for New Bedford, which has tried to tout itself as a haven for families and business, but has been rocked by a series of violent attacks this year. In February a teenager attacked patrons in a gay bar, and in May a community activist was shot and killed execution-style, days after her son was accused of murdering someone in a rival gang.
Yesterday evening, relatives and friends gathered outside the Foxy Lady. Someone left a T-shirt emblazoned with the club's name and a handwritten tribute. "In our hearts, we love you both. God bless," the message said.
Tsoumas, like many of the employees, was still reeling.
"You dream about things that could possibly happen that might go wrong," he said. "And the dreams are never that horrible, never. Never that horrible. And to think that happens here, in this town. . . . I can't understand it. I just can't understand it.">>
<<NEW BEDFORD -- The lights were on, and the crowd was thinning out as the Foxy Lady strip club wound down to closing time at 2 a.m. yesterday. Monday night had been unusually slow, and only three or four patrons still lingered inside the mirrored lounge. The managers, dancers, and waitresses were eager to head home.
Just then, a gunman -- masked, dressed in black, and armed with a high-powered military-style rifle -- burst through a back door into the kitchen, grabbed one of the dancers, and screamed, "This is not a joke."
The man identified as the gunman, Scott C. Medeiros, angry over a breakup with a club bartender, had been banned from the Foxy Lady on Route 6. Pointing his rifle from his hip, he hustled the dancers and waitresses, all 14 of them, into a dressing room, telling them he wasn't after them.
Then, police and employees said, he opened fire in the lounge, killing two managers, Robert Carreiro, 33, and Tory Marandos, 30, as they tried to run outside. When the first two police officers arrived, responding to reports of gunshots, Medeiros stood outside the club and sprayed their cruiser with bullets, wounding them.
As 100 officers surrounded the club, Medeiros telephoned them from inside and told them he would not surrender. Inside the dressing room, he ripped off his mask and let the women leave the club.
At about 5 a.m., three hours after he had stormed the club, police officers carrying automatic weapons swarmed in and found Medeiros dead. He had shot himself, Mayor Scott W. Lang said.
Medeiros, a 35-year-old electronics repairman from neighboring Freetown, had no criminal record and was licensed to carry a rifle. A few years ago, he installed the Foxy Lady's security cameras. But employees said he was furious at being thrown out of the club two weeks ago, when he came in to see his former girlfriend, who tended bar.
Lang said Medeiros was "hell-bent on destruction," and the club's owner, Thomas Tsoumas, said Medeiros was apparently hunting for Carreiro. Carreiro had a child with the bartender who had broken up with Medeiros and had kicked Medeiros out of the club.
"He came back, in his own mind, to settle the score," Tsoumas said.
Employees and police said that when Medeiros entered the club, he was yelling angrily. He wore a black ski mask and bulletproof vest and carried a tote bag with ammunition. When he first walked into the lounge, he fired almost immediately, but didn't hit anyone, employees said.
"Everybody just scattered," said Jessica Blair, 19, a waitress.
Medeiros then pushed the women -- a bartender, three waitresses, and 10 dancers -- into the dressing room, where they huddled together.
Then Medeiros walked back into the lounge, where he came face to face with Ned Tsouprake, a club security guard who had been in the foyer, calling a cab for a patron. Tsouprake said he had heard the previous shots and seen smoke in the club, but figured someone had set off firecrackers.
He didn't realize someone was firing a rifle until Medeiros pointed the barrel at him and squeezed the trigger. "I don't have any idea how it missed me," Tsouprake said.
Tsouprake, 46, said he then saw Carreiro run past him and dive for cover near the foyer. Medeiros fired and hit Carreiro. Police later found Carreiro's body in the parking lot outside the club, where he had apparently stumbled out and collapsed.
Medeiros shot Marandos next, killing him inside the club, employees said. The two had been friends, and just two months ago Medeiros installed a satellite dish at Marandos's apartment in New Bedford.
With Medeiros watching over them, two female employees dragged Marandos's body through a side door onto the sidewalk, said Nick Santiago, a taxi driver who saw the scene from his cab outside the club. "They were screaming," Santiago said of the women. "I tried to help them out, but there was no way of getting in there."
Santiago said the women dropped Marandos's body and ran while he drove into the nightclub's parking lot and did a U-turn. Medeiros was there, pointed his rifle at Santiago, and threatened him: "He told me to 'get the hell out of here, before I shoot you,' " Santiago said.
"I thought I was going to die," he said.
By then, police were being flooded with 911 calls, including one from the mayor. Lang said the gunfire was so loud it woke him at his home 2 miles from the club.
When the first cruiser pulled up to the club, Medeiros opened fire, riddling the car with more than a dozen bullets, police said. The bullets struck Officer Joshua Fernandes, 27 -- a five-year veteran of the force, who was behind the wheel -- in the cheek, and Officer Steve Wadman, 28 -- who joined the force a year ago -- in both arms and the hip. Fernandes drove to St. Luke's Hospital, 2 miles away. Their wounds were not life-threatening.
Medeiros traded fire briefly with other officers, though he struck none, and eventually retreated into the club as 100 state and local officers, including hostage negotiators and SWAT teams, rushed to the club. Medeiros called police at about 2:40 a.m., but refused to negotiate, Lang said.
"He was not contrite; that's for sure," Lang said.
Medeiros stalked into the dressing room, ripped off his ski mask and told the women they could leave around 3 a.m. As they ran outside, officers used their bullet-pocked cruisers to shield them.
About two hours later, confident that all the employees and patrons were out of the building, officers stormed into the club, guns drawn. Inside, they detonated flash bangs, devices that emit blinding light and blasting sound. But they found Medeiros dead, apparently struck with a .223 caliber bullet from his own rifle, said Captain Richard M. Spirlet of the New Bedford police.
During the shooting, Glenn Goncalves, 46, a patron, was also hit in both legs, but it was not clear how.
The assault was a painful shock for New Bedford, which has tried to tout itself as a haven for families and business, but has been rocked by a series of violent attacks this year. In February a teenager attacked patrons in a gay bar, and in May a community activist was shot and killed execution-style, days after her son was accused of murdering someone in a rival gang.
Yesterday evening, relatives and friends gathered outside the Foxy Lady. Someone left a T-shirt emblazoned with the club's name and a handwritten tribute. "In our hearts, we love you both. God bless," the message said.
Tsoumas, like many of the employees, was still reeling.
"You dream about things that could possibly happen that might go wrong," he said. "And the dreams are never that horrible, never. Never that horrible. And to think that happens here, in this town. . . . I can't understand it. I just can't understand it.">>
IF it fires any type of projectile, the anti's will class it as an "assault weapon"
![[rofl]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/013.gif "ROFL [rofl]")
sorry... couldnt resist.
something to the effect of , folding stock, pistol grip, flash hider, high cap mag, any combination of the afore mentioned
The problem is that trying to "stop crime" in a socialist
state (at least in the US) is effectively like pissing into the wind. It's
a lot easier to make new gun owners than it is to "solve crime". You
forget that the same a**h***s that want the gun bans are also the same
people who like letting criminals off easy. It's easier for them to blame the
gun than it is the criminal. In their eyes, the criminal is a "legtiimate"
person to be coddled from the influences of the evil gun.
![[rolleyes]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/042.gif "Roll Eyes [rolleyes]")
Further, crime is caused by a bunch of contributing factors.... the
criminal justice system is only part of the problems. You also have drug
laws, economic issues, bad parents, as well as the failure of public
education. A pro gun group, not even the NRA, has enough pull to really
influence all those issues which contribute/make crime.
On top of this, are you really that optimistic that the leftist media would
recognize a pro gun group for supporting a crime fighting initiative? I'm sure
as hell not. The NRA has tacitly supported numerous federal gun laws
oriented towards criminals with known histories and the like, and it's gotten
them ZERO real recognition for doing so. The only people that have
taken note of their efforts are gun owners. If anything, support of
fed laws has caused more hurt to the NRA than anything else, because some
of the members question the notion of the NRA supporting federal "gun
enforcement" in any way shape or form.
On the other hand, Us getting our asses kicked by the antis legislatively
is an issue that has a very simple cause- a lack of gun owners and useable
votes and voices. That's what it -ultimately- comes down to. Note
that even in socialist countries with minimal violent crime, that gun bans
still come to pass... the reason is because there is very little resistance
to them.
And FWIW, Brady, VPC, AGS, and all the rest of those loon toons don't get
that much traction with the voters, either. They pander themselves to
politicians more often than anything else, which do a far better job at
selling gun control than any of those groups could ever hope
to. (Hyperbole from a politico's mouth is more genuine to the public,
because the speaker has a relationship to the community, unlike the brady or
VPC mouthpieces, which everyone knows has an agenda. The fact that
the MMM got exposed for tax fraud and the like did not help these groups at
all either... )
Seriously... find an anti and ask them if they can name an anti gun group off the
top of their heads. Some might come up with brady, or possibly MMM, but most of
the rest of them are virtually unknown. Most people are "media antis" (eg they
believe some lies spewed by the media) and not brady/vpc fume breathers.
-Mike
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You forget that the same a**h***s that want the gun bans are also the same people who like letting criminals off easy. It's easier for them to blame the gun than it is the criminal. In their eyes, the criminal is a "legtiimate" person to be coddled from the influences of the evil gun.
On the other hand, Us getting our asses kicked by the antis legislatively
is an issue that has a very simple cause- a lack of gun owners and useable
votes and voices. That's what it -ultimately- comes down to. Note
that even in socialist countries with minimal violent crime, that gun bans
still come to pass... the reason is because there is very little resistance
to them.
Good points Mike. The first paragraph I quoted from you is the absolute most puzzling and annoying position that they take. I can't for the life of me understand this either! It's completely inconsistent.
On the 2nd paragraph I quoted from you- right on the money. Sad but true. If someone isn't a gun owner and doesn't care to be one, he/she is likely not to watch out for our best wishes... even if they are protected by the 2ndA. Baffling.
Well, who else should GOAL be catering to?
It was formed to protect the rights of gun owners and continues to keep on protecting those rights; directly, through lobbying and its membership on the GCAB, and indirectly by training new shooters who, we hope, will work to protect the rights they now exercise.
In short, GOAL is serving its clientele, specifically, directly and to the extent its resources permit. The sort of social engineering/politicking/mass-movement activities you wish it to undertake are, even if not inappropriate, wholly outside the scope of GOAL's resources.
Better to use what it has to achieve realistic objectives than fritter them away on pie-in-the-sky "anti-crime" projects that are already superfluous and largely misdirected at inanimate objects instead of criminals.
I don’t, in anyway, want to come across as a GOAL basher. Goal contributes a lot to those who practice their rights. They are vigilant in promoting firearm safety and responsibility. They keep the firearms community up to date on what is going on in the state and have been very successful in stopping poor legislation and passing good legislation. However, the anti’s kick our buts because they’re smarter at marketing their propaganda. If the status quo is to give in to a socialist agenda just because that’s the way it’s been than we have officially lost. I fully understand how this state works which is why I’m so concerned about weather or not we are fully utilizing our collective resources. I refuse to give into the premise that because that’s the way it’s been means that that’s the way it will be. Don’t misinterpret my concern and drive as naïve optimism. I have no illusions what so ever that the media will willingly open their arms to our side, which is why we need to push. The tactics that are in motion place us on stable ground, that if utilized to its fullest, can propel our cause to the masses.
Goal should cater to those who are not gun owners as well. Some educational program or marketing plan that advertises the great attributes to firearm ownership. If our problem is dealing with people who are ignorant to firearm ownership and the law than it is our resposability to educate them on these issues. Hell if Goal needs someone to design a marketing campaign and pass around flyers I'll do it for free.
Goal should cater to those who are not gun owners as well. Some educational program or marketing plan that advertises the great attributes to firearm ownership. If our problem is dealing with people who are ignorant to firearm ownership and the law than it is our resposability to educate them on these issues. Hell if Goal needs someone to design a marketing campaign and pass around flyers I'll do it for free.
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I would also like to point out that The Message notifies us of impending bills that will be BAD or good. GOAL does what they can do, but in the end it's up to us (the gun owning voters) to call and write our legicritters and tell them to either pass it or shitcan it. Not all of us keep on top of what's on the docket for impending bills so that little ol' newspaper is a handy thing to get indeed.
They don't?
While .223 is a little big for coyote, the AR platform is suited nicely for accuracy and multiple targets or followup shots. The preferred caliber is .17 Rem or maybe .17/223 or .19/223 or the new 204 Ruger.
As far as AK, 7.62x39 "Combloc" Whisper
Getting celebrities and athletes on board with "I'm the NRA" might help out here.
Simple response to this one for the great unwashed hoards. What's been the historic favorite for deer hunting in the eastern half of the country? The venerable .30-30, of course. Now compare the ballistics of the typical .30-30 load with those of the 7.62x39: Muzzle velocity - about the same; bullet weight - about the same; trajectory - the 7,62x39 does a skosh better due to its using a pointed bullet rather than the round nose bullet typical in the .30-30; terminal effect at any reasonable range - about the same. So I guess we're back to "but it looks scary and made me wet myself."
Ken
If you look at some of my other post you'll see that I agree that hunting with a .223 is a good round for game. The AR is a great platform. The person who I was talking about was making the incorrect assumption that the 2nd was only for hunting. Read my post you'll see why I was upset.
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