three police officers shot in PA

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I am sorry, but I mind my own f*cking business, cover my own a$$, kiss my wife and daughter every night, and protect my family from all harm. Does this mean I am a paranoid nut to fear for my families protection?

If someone in your family or a close friend was visibly disturbed and you had reason to believe that they would become violent, would you take action? Not necessarily legal action, but would you try to help them through their problems?
 
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If someone in your family or a close friend was visibly disturbed and you had reason to believe that they would become violent, would you take action? Not necessarily legal action, but would you try to help them through their problems?

Different ballgame: Of course. My point is the action of "policing the gun community". If you had first hand knowledge of something that serious, of course. To say that we should police our own group is quite another matter.
 
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Different ballgame: Of course. My point is the action of "policing the gun community". If you had first hand knowledge of something that serious, of course. To say that we should police our own group is quite another matter.

And I agree with that. What I firmly believe, and have believed for a very long time, is that we as a society have become too selfish. Many people won't even try to help those in their own families or their close friends. Both the shooters in these recent shootings had close friends and families are quoted as noting that they had seen warning signs. None of them seem to have done anything, whether trying to help them personally or contacting authorities.

Society can only hold together if we watch out for those around us, for our friends and family. When everyone does that, then everyone ends up having others close to them supporting and watching out for them.

I don't believe in policing total strangers if you're not actually the police. But I lament the widespread loss of concern for anyone but self that our society displays today. This society has lost the ability to care for anyone but oneself. Parents don't hold themselves responsible for parenting their kids, brothers and sisters don't help a sibling who clearly is crying out for help, good friends try to "give them space" rather than try to help.
 
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And I agree with that. What I firmly believe, and have believed for a very long time, is that we as a society have become too selfish. Many people won't even try to help those in their own families or their close friends. Both the shooters in these recent shootings had close friends and families are quoted as noting that they had seen warning signs. None of them seem to have done anything, whether trying to help them personally or contacting authorities.

Society can only hold together if we watch out for those around us, for our friends and family. When everyone does that, then everyone ends up having others close to them supporting and watching out for them.

I don't believe in policing total strangers if you're not actually the police. But I lament the widespread loss of concern for anyone but self that our society displays today. This society has lost the ability to care for anyone but oneself. Parents don't hold themselves responsible for parenting their kids, brothers and sisters don't help a sibling who clearly is crying out for help, good friends try to "give them space" rather than try to help.

Well stated! +1
 
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Here's the bottom line and one that every gun owner should be pointing out to every idiot who wants to punish you by taking your guns away because of crimes committed by others.

Does the government punish the family of a criminal for a violent act the criminal committed? No! It does not!

There are over 80 million LAW ABIDING gun owners in this country who do not violate ANY laws. Does the government have the right to punish them for violent acts committed by criminals? No! It most certainly does not!

Frame your argument that way because it is in fact, the truth. But whatever you do, DO NOT allow anyone to put you on the defensive because you own firearms. That's what they want and if you do it, you're playing into their hands and allowing yourself to be led to the slaughter.
 
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darkstorm

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WHAT! Maybe I just fell asleep on this board, or did we not just see what happens when a person makes an unsubstantiated allegation about someone's character and that basically makes them unsuitable for the rest of their life.

I am sorry, but I mind my own f*cking business, cover my own a$$, kiss my wife and daughter every night, and protect my family from all harm. Does this mean I am a paranoid nut to fear for my families protection?

Sorry, but turning the gun population into a bunch of sniveling snitches will only fuel the fire of bans and confiscations. Thanks but no: I take take care of my own business and leave others alone. I suggest you do the same. [thinking]

All meant was we each are responceable for our own actions.
 

hillman

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This is slightly OT but when I worked as a police officer, I knew several fellow officers who refused to wear the trauma plate in their vests. They thought it was impossible that they would ever have to face a situation that the vest alone would not handle. I wore mine religiously, and wished the whole damn vest was covered with the plates!

I don't know if this has been the situation with any of the police officers who have been killed recently, but I can't help but wonder...

And now, because these nutjobs are wearing vests too, that leaves your average officer carrying his .40 at a disadvantage as he walks up on to the scene, before he knows what's going on. Then he's got to go "North Hollywood" until he can get back to his cruiser (hopefully with a rifle in it).

What this is leading up to is police officers having to basically learn how to operate as urban soldiers instead of just trying to make a positive difference in the community.

Also, since the North Hollywood incident, we are starting to see some really well prepared criminals, wearing body armor, multiple weapons that they actually KNOW how to use properly, blocking escape routes, etc...

But what's worse, I know some of you here had the same thought I had when we heard about the Binghamton incident. Hell, with two pistols you can take out a lot more people than this guy did...

I don't really have a point I'm trying to make other than this is all disturbing, and only going to get worse, and I'm not even talking about the potential for bans and seizures. I'm just talking about the bad guys.
 
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The unnecessary loss of any life is tragic, however maybe some good can come out of this incident after the fact. Unlike Virgina Tech, Columbine or the other recent shootings this year this guy is still alive. There will of course be some type of trial so maybe we can learn something about the motivations and state of mind of this individual. There are some questions that the article doesn't answer and that I hope we do find out...

Why where the police there in the first place?
Was he shot first and was he firing is self defense?
Why did he shoot the officers?
If the officers shot first, why did they shoot?

From the article it does sound like he was panicked and thought he was going to die. It also sound like he was fired upon first based on this article quote.

Perkovic, a 22-year-old who said he was Poplawski's best friend, said he got a call at work from him in which he said, "Eddie, I am going to die today. ... Tell your family I love them and I love you."

Perkovic said: "I heard gunshots and he hung up. ... He sounded like he was in pain, like he got shot."

I agree, there are still many unanswered questions. As you said, this time they will all get answered.
 
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Out here in Pittsfield we've had about 4 or 5 shootings in the last month.(plus about 10 stabbings) Thankfully with no fatalities, however many of them were about a 2 minute walk from my house.

I'm still working on getting an ltc or fid or something to keep my family safe.

Anyhow: One of the shooters in a drive-by is 20 years old and was just recently released from the county jail on an illegal possession of a handgun and ammo charges. He was 18 when he went in for it, gets out and turns around and shoots at some other drug dealing jackass with little kids all around.

His buddy just got out on bail a few months back for a carjacking at knifepoint and also had a warrant for failing to register as a sex offender with a correct address.

My point is this: The judges in our city have been giving them $1000 bail just about every time, no matter what crime they commit. They are drug dealers, they have 1 grand laying around in shoeboxes. All of these criminals know about lenient courts and crap judges so they repeat offend so damn often.

The car used in the drive-by was stopped on the same road where the shots rang out an hour before the shooting. Inside the car, four young black males wearing all red with a joint burning in the ashtray. They were let go with a warning for speeding. 2 hrs later they were back and firing at their enemies. This is just crazy.
 
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I just read in the news that this guy Poplawski was dishonorably discharged from the Marines. Doesn't that make him federally disqualified from possessing firearms?
 
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This is slightly OT but when I worked as a police officer, I knew several fellow officers who refused to wear the trauma plate in their vests. They thought it was impossible that they would ever have to face a situation that the vest alone would not handle. I wore mine religiously, and wished the whole damn vest was covered with the plates!

I don't know if this has been the situation with any of the police officers who have been killed recently, but I can't help but wonder...

And now, because these nutjobs are wearing vests too, that leaves your average officer carrying his .40 at a disadvantage as he walks up on to the scene, before he knows what's going on. Then he's got to go "North Hollywood" until he can get back to his cruiser (hopefully with a rifle in it).

What this is leading up to is police officers having to basically learn how to operate as urban soldiers instead of just trying to make a positive difference in the community.
Also, since the North Hollywood incident, we are starting to see some really well prepared criminals, wearing body armor, multiple weapons that they actually KNOW how to use properly, blocking escape routes, etc...

But what's worse, I know some of you here had the same thought I had when we heard about the Binghamton incident. Hell, with two pistols you can take out a lot more people than this guy did...

I don't really have a point I'm trying to make other than this is all disturbing, and only going to get worse, and I'm not even talking about the potential for bans and seizures. I'm just talking about the bad guys.

The quote in red is exactly what I'm talking about in my previous post.

Our founding fathers were adamant about not having a "standing army" that, under the control of an oppressive government, could be turned or would turn against the people.

Police have become, or are rapidly becoming just that.....I've watched it happen for fortyfive years.

The complete militarization of police departments, going from respected neighborhood confidants and friends of the public they came in contact with, from double breasted wool suits with a revolver, cuffs and a nightstick, to the same combat gear (or more) than our soldiers are wearing in actual combat units within our military......including armored vehicles and snipers.
Whats next? Artillery and mortars? Air strikes?

This is NOT what policing is about....thats what WAR is about and some in elected office are using the police as THEIR soldiers to force THEIR will on others who wish to live unencumbered by draconian laws, written by people who wish nothing more than to completely control the lives of others through confiscatory taxation and wealth redistribution and garner the adoration of a group of followers who will support their beliefs.....no matter how dangerous those beliefs are to the liberties of the rest of the citizens.

Many of the elected want to be the masters........sorry, thats not how it works in this country.

The elected are OUR servants(well paid of course) and anyone who runs for elected office who doesn't understand that should seek another path in life, as they are unfit to lead.

Its all about MONEY, POWER and CONTROL.......and those who control the money can buy the power to control the public.
 
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evidently everything my father told me about south carolina is true. do they really spend the first 5 years of grammar school in theraputic exercises reconditioning your knuckles to hold a pencil because of all the early years spent dragging them on the ground?

[laugh2][rofl] That was too funny!! Although, I just learned hot coffee burns like hell, when it passes thru my nostrils from laughing, on the way to my computer screen..........[shocked].........needed to be cleaned anyway. Thanks for the laugh.
 
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This is a sad day for those officers families, my heart and prayers go to them. The media is putting a great spin on it, with saying what weapons he had. I do fear that this may be the media pushing the Obamanations agenda. Look at how those guns are killing both Mexican and U.S. police, it was the guns fault, if their were no guns this would never happen, but please ignore the whacko pulling the trigger, it is not his fault, he is just misguided. Guns are bad, and only bad people have guns. I see a hell of a fight on the horizon, for all law abiding gun owners............
 
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Looks like we have yet another shooting. "Dad", we will put that in quotations because a real dad wouldn't kill his own kids, kills his 5 kids (all gun shots) then takes his own life miles away with a rifle.
 

wahsben

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I agree, there are still many unanswered questions. As you said, this time they will all get answered.

Yes, we may get answers but will we get the truth? If we get the truth will it be reported truthfully or will the MSM twist it around if it is not what they want to tell.
 

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As a result of this inicident, NBC News ran a brief snipet "Are the Police Outgunned?". My wife watched intently and asked my opinion. (I am a 26 yr LEO veteran. I am also an Academy Range Instructor and Defensive Tactics Instructor.) I explained to her that these recent police shootings had nothing to do with the guns. It was all about mind set. A police officer is trained to keep the PEACE and approaches each situation with the mindset of a PEACEFUL RESOLUTION. The perpetrators in these police shootings have already made up their minds to resolve the situation with gunfire. This puts the officer at a huge disadvantage. Not only have these officers been ambushed, they entered the scene not expecting a fire fight. This is difficult to explain but, for example, a soldier goes into a patrol situation with his gun out and ready to fire. His MIND is also ready for gunfire as he is already in an adversarial situation. A Police Officer, however, does NOT know what he is getting into until he is into it. If the police were more heavy handed, there would be a public outcry of "fascism" and "police state". Policing has evolved over the years to reflect how society wants us to police. This puts the nutjobs at an advantage but it is the unfortunate price of civilization.
 
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CNN is already running with "We need to reinstate the AWB", they had on a former FBI official who said, the ban "definitely would have prevented this situation". The reporter said "You hear all this about the RTKBA, but that doesn't give you the right to kill people", I was screaming at the TV (and that was a little embarrassing since I was at the Philadelphia airport), I'm sure we have laws against killing people don't we? He then went on to list how we are down the bottom of the itternational list for gun control, and he thought that was a bad thing. He went on, "In these other countries guns are completely outlawed and they have no gun crime at all, even the police don't carry guns".

The reason for all the laws and regs, is they assume we are all criminals first rather than the actual criminals. Even if they confiscated every single gun and bullet in the country there would still be guns in the hands of the criminals, why don't they get that?
 

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Even if they confiscated every single gun and bullet in the country there would still be guns in the hands of the criminals, why don't they get that?

They get it. They know it. Any gun ban isn't about stopping crime. They want us unarmed for other reasons.
 
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I just read in the news that this guy Poplawski was dishonorably discharged from the Marines. Doesn't that make him federally disqualified from possessing firearms?

The Yahoo AP story says that he was kicked out of boot camp for throwing a food tray at a drill sergeant. Would that amount to a DD?
 

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A wire story says that his mother called the police to evict the murderer. There had been an argument over a dog urinating in the house.

So, a "dog ban" would make as much sense as an "AW" ban.
 
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The Yahoo AP story says that he was kicked out of boot camp for throwing a food tray at a drill sergeant. Would that amount to a DD?

I saw multiple articles saying it was a dishonerable discharge. I guess the full story isn't out yet.
 

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not good

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/a...an_lying_in_wait_kills_3_pittsburgh_officers/


—A 911 call that brought two police officers to a home where they were ambushed, and where a third was also later killed during a four-hour siege, was precipitated by a fight between the gunman and his mother over a dog urinating in the house.

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The Saturday argument between Margaret and Richard Poplawski escalated to the point that she threatened to kick him out and she called police to do it, according to a 12-page criminal complaint and affidavit filed late Saturday.

When officers Paul Sciullo III and Stephen Mayhle arrived, Margaret Poplawski opened the door and told them to come in and take her 23-year-old son, apparently unaware he was standing behind her with a rifle, the affidavit said. Hearing gunshots, she spun around to see her son with the gun and ran to the basement.

"What the hell have you done?" she shouted.

The mother told police her son had been stockpiling guns and ammunition "because he believed that as a result of economic collapse, the police were no longer able to protect society," the affidavit said.

Friends have said Poplawski was concerned about his weapons being seized during Barack Obama's presidency, and friends said he owned several handguns and an AK-47 assault rifle. Police have not said, specifically, what weapons were used to kill the officers.

Autopsies show Sciullo, 37, died of wounds to the head and torso. Mayhle, 29, was shot in the head.

A witness awakened by two gunshots told investigators of seeing the gunman standing in the home's front doorway and firing two to three shots into one officer who was already down. Sciullo was later found dead in the home's living room, and Mayhle near the front stoop, police said.

A third officer, Eric Kelly, 41, was killed as he arrived to assist the first two officers. Kelly was in uniform but on his way home when he responded and was gunned down in the street.

Kelly's radio call for help summoned other officers, including a SWAT team. The ensuing standoff included a gun battle in which police say Richard Poplawski tried to kill other officers.

Poplawski is charged with three counts of criminal homicide and nine counts of attempted homicide -- one each for the eight officers who were shot at in an armored SWAT vehicle, plus a ninth who was shot in the hand as he tried to help Kelly.

Poplawski also was charged with possessing an instrument of crime: the bulletproof vest he wore during the gun battle. The criminal complaint doesn't say how Poplawski obtained the vest.

Police Chief Nate Harper Jr. has said the vest kept Poplawski from being more seriously wounded, but police have not specifically said how many shots were stopped by the vest.

A district judge arraigned Poplawski at UPMC Presbyterian Hospital, an arraignment court worker told The Associated Press on Sunday. Poplawski was being treated there for gunshot wounds to his extremities and remains under guard. Police and hospital officials have not released his condition, though he is expected to survive.

It was not immediately clear if Poplawski had an attorney. A preliminary hearing, at which Poplawski could challenge the charges, wasn't immediately scheduled.

Poplawski is also charged with firing weapons into two occupied neighboring homes and with recklessly endangering four people, two in each home, with gunfire. No civilians were wounded.

Police did not say why Poplawski fired toward the homes, but some officers were seen going into nearby homes and perching on rooftops.

Investigators continued to work at the home Sunday. A large piece of wood covered the entire entryway, a picture window was shattered, bullet holes could be seen in the living room walls and several bullet marks scarred the facade and window frames.

Police did not immediately release information on funeral arrangements for the officers, though a memorial was held Saturday night outside the police station where all three slain officers worked.

Bagpipers played near a black wreath hung outside the station and an Allegheny County 911 dispatcher did a roll call for the 11 p.m. shift change. Various officers responded when their car numbers were called, but there was silence when the names, unit numbers and badge numbers of the slain officers were called out.

Chief Harper radioed back in each instance that the officer had been killed in the line of duty as hundreds of officers and other mourners stood listening nearby.
 
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I am dead serious. If we gun owners can not police our own ranks, you can bet for sure that obama is going to do it for us. I see no proposals from anyone (NRA, etc) for solving the problem, except from eric holder types. What is the solution?

Buying a couple more cases of 5.56 is not the answer if they take everything you have that fires it. Wake up.

You CAN'T do anything. You simply cannot prevent violent crime. You can ride the 'prevention' train all the way to a total gun ban and it still won't stop these people from snapping.
 
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And now, because these nutjobs are wearing vests too, that leaves your average officer carrying his .40 at a disadvantage as he walks up on to the scene, before he knows what's going on. Then he's got to go "North Hollywood" until he can get back to his cruiser (hopefully with a rifle in it).

What this is leading up to is police officers having to basically learn how to operate as urban soldiers instead of just trying to make a positive difference in the community.

Also, since the North Hollywood incident, we are starting to see some really well prepared criminals, wearing body armor, multiple weapons that they actually KNOW how to use properly, blocking escape routes, etc...

Criminals have always had the capacity to 'be prepared'. It's nothing new as all the bank robbers in the 20's would tell you.
 

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Criminals have always had the capacity to 'be prepared'. It's nothing new as all the bank robbers in the 20's would tell you.

shhhhh. don't go getting in the way of LEO's conquest for more toys now. they like badass M4s too you know.
 
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