three police officers shot in PA

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As a result of this inicident, NBC News ran a brief snipet "Are the Police Outgunned?". My wife watched intently and asked my opinion. (I am a 26 yr LEO veteran. I am also an Academy Range Instructor and Defensive Tactics Instructor.) I explained to her that these recent police shootings had nothing to do with the guns. It was all about mind set. A police officer is trained to keep the PEACE and approaches each situation with the mindset of a PEACEFUL RESOLUTION. The perpetrators in these police shootings have already made up their minds to resolve the situation with gunfire. This puts the officer at a huge disadvantage. Not only have these officers been ambushed, they entered the scene not expecting a fire fight. This is difficult to explain but, for example, a soldier goes into a patrol situation with his gun out and ready to fire. His MIND is also ready for gunfire as he is already in an adversarial situation. A Police Officer, however, does NOT know what he is getting into until he is into it. If the police were more heavy handed, there would be a public outcry of "fascism" and "police state". Policing has evolved over the years to reflect how society wants us to police. This puts the nutjobs at an advantage but it is the unfortunate price of civilization.

+1, excellent post.
 

Vin Weasel

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shhhhh. don't go getting in the way of LEO's conquest for more toys now. they like badass M4s too you know.


Obviously we need them if were gonna be going up against guys with semi auto AK clones every other weekend. Oakland, Pittsburgh, would you want to go up against body armor with a .40 cal pistol? It's unfortunate that we need an M4 in our toolbox these days. Times have changed.
 
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I saw multiple articles saying it was a dishonerable discharge. I guess the full story isn't out yet.

I thought you couldn't get a gun if you had a DD? Isn't that one of the questions on the BATFE form? I'm sure Derek or another poster will military experience will chime in to clarify.
 
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Obviously we need them if were gonna be going up against guys with semi auto AK clones every other weekend. Oakland, Pittsburgh, would you want to go up against body armor with a .40 cal pistol? It's unfortunate that we need an M4 in our toolbox these days. Times have changed.

Really? I mean... in the late 1800's what self-respecting lawman didn't have a Winchester 1866 and a shotgun on his wall next to his pistol belt?

Like it or not, a semi-automatic rifle is the modern day lever action rifle and frankly I'm surprised they don't ride shotgun in every policeman's car.
 

Vin Weasel

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Really? I mean... in the late 1800's what self-respecting lawman didn't have a Winchester 1866 and a shotgun on his wall next to his pistol belt?

Like it or not, a semi-automatic rifle is the modern day lever action rifle and frankly I'm surprised they don't ride shotgun in every policeman's car.


I agree with you 100%. I wish my dept. would see it this way. Their rationale is to wait 40 mins for SWAT to mobilize. We have no long barrels in our cruisers.
 
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M1911

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I agree with you 100%. I wish my dept. would see it this way. Their rationale is to wait 40 mins for SWAT to mobilize. We have no long barrels in our cruisers.

Goodness gracious.
1898.gif
With all of the active shooter situations in the last 10 years, you would have thought that police chiefs would realize that camping and waiting for SWAT is not a strategy.
 
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As much as I don't want our Police turning into the Military, they gotta have a rifle in the cruiser. They don't have to walk around with machine guns, but I'd like to know that our police have the basic tools required to deal with any basic type of active shooter.

I can understand why those cops in New York hung around and waited for SWAT for 40 minutes instead of going into the building... judging by the pics all they had were shotguns. Give me a pistol and a shotgun and tell me to chase down a guy with a rifle and I'll tell you where you can stick it. Maybe they would have gone in sooner had they known for sure that all he had were pistols.
 
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A bullet proof vest is an "instrument of crime" now? Why does what he was wearing affect the situation at all? He killed people, charge him with murder and put him away for good. Or better yet seek the death penalty. [angry]
 

pdm

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A bullet proof vest is an "instrument of crime" now? Why does what he was wearing affect the situation at all? He killed people, charge him with murder and put him away for good. Or better yet seek the death penalty. [angry]

It's a value-add. Doesn't MA have something about wearing armor when committing a felony?
 

Spanz

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excuse my ignorance, but I just assumed that pretty much every cop had a mini 14 in the trunk. I guess not.
 

M1911

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excuse my ignorance, but I just assumed that pretty much every cop had a mini 14 in the trunk. I guess not.

Nope. Some forces issue patrol rifles. Some forces allow the officer to carry his personally owned patrol rifles. But many do not.

And the most common patrol rifle is probably an AR15.
 

Vin Weasel

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Goodness gracious.
1898.gif
With all of the active shooter situations in the last 10 years, you would have thought that police chiefs would realize that camping and waiting for SWAT is not a strategy.

In an active shooter we are expected to go in with sidearms and hope for the best.
 

darkstorm

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This reminds me of the North Hollywood incident. The police where so out gunned,one of the robbery's shot HIMSELF. I have seen that video many time's and heard the police later comment that"They have on body armor" Well I can see there heads,shoot them in the F****** head. While I was,and hope to be again,a comp. combat shooter,some LEO friends that had come to watch some matches could not believe how intense they where.

The cop's have a hard enough job to do as it is. At least give them the tools they need to get the job done.

With that said,I think it is high time that every officer,other than to get his once a year qual's,owes it to himself and pratice as often as he/she can.

After all,there lives do depend on it. Again,I am very sorry for the families and hope the bastard that did this get's the needle!!
 

darkstorm

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most major depts are issuing 10 rds of .223 to zero / qualify & 50 rds of pistol caliber for the year right now because of budget constraints and ammo availability.

Nobody ever bought my ammo. If my life depended on my sidearm,you can bet I'd be the best I could be. However,at the end of the day,a lot of kids will grow up w/o a dad for going to work. I have had my problems with the police as most of you have read.

However,nobody just trying to do there job deserves to be killed.
 
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