Today was my last day shopping at Four Seasons

[lewis]

so I bought a new Sig legion. I get delayed often so when I got delayed it was no big deal. This was 4/11. The guy says “ok you’re delayed. You can pick it up on 4/18” I said yea, if they don’t call. They always call within an hour or the next day. “No they don’t call anymore. They’re super busy.” Not wanting to argue. I thought to my self ooook that’s weird. This must be the only FFL in MA that doesn’t get called. So he says “no news is good news!” Ok great. See ya. So today rolls around. I go to the store to grab my new purchase. A few clicks on the computer. And he prints a sheet. It’s the background check. I glance down at it. Says “PROCEED” with a decision date of 4/12. Lmfao. Just like I said it would be. The next day.
Now I’m pissed. Because every single other FFL calls me to say it’s ready. Now Carl can’t be bothered with delay calls? Oh sorry for spending 1100 bucks. I’ve probably spent 5-7k there. Sorry my delay call is too much of a hassle. Because you’re busy with someone for an hour who’s on the fence about spending $300 on a Ruger.
Being delayed sucks enough. But now you can’t be bothered to call me? I knew it was weird how they said right off the bat the feds don’t call anymore. That’s BS.
And I know Carl’s justification will be ‘well it’s the dealers discretion. I don’t need to call’. That’s fine. I don’t need to go to your store either. Keep your $700 2nd gen glocks. Good day.

 

[drgrant]

If you're buying something like a legion you've (probably) graduated beyond FS, probably years ago. I don't even have any problems with the shop, but its quite
obvious that its set up for a specific demographic of buyers.

That aside, did you bring this up with Carl specifically? I'm curious if thats their policy now to laze on delays, or if that was smoke being blown by someone that
works there. At least that way I know what to tell people to expect.

-Mike

 

[Rockrivr1]

There are good and bad things that revolve around a high volume shop like FS. The good is you can get better price and at times selection. The bad side is that personal service goes right out the window and you get what happened to you. I stopped going to FS on a regular basis as I hate the "Cattle" feel you have when in there. I'll pay a little more to my LGS as they know me by first name and provide excellent customer service. Better then the cattle call you get at FS.

 

[DarthRevan]

All the more reason to shop with Steve at Northeast Arms. Rt 1 South.
Hit the gun shop, then the Cabaret!
Or swing back around for the Golden Banana
I swore off 4S and North Shore years ago.

 

[SgtHal75]

No disrespect to FS or anyone who likes to shop there, but I can’t stand the place. The rudest staff, no major price deals, and I don’t even like taking numbers at the deli. It doesn’t shock me that this happened to u. I got a trigger job there and the guy said your all set, through my cased gun on the counter, took my money and said who’s next...not even a thank u or have a nice day.

 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

Timely thread, just dealt with them this morning. I would advise anyone getting a gun transferred through them to contact them first to make sure they'll do it.

 

[lewis]

If you're buying something like a legion you've (probably) graduated beyond FS, probably years ago. I don't even have any problems with the shop, but its quite
obvious that its set up for a specific demographic of buyers.

That aside, did you bring this up with Carl specifically? I'm curious if thats their policy now to laze on delays, or if that was smoke being blown by someone that
works there. At least that way I know what to tell people to expect.

-Mike

I didn’t bring it up with him. He’s always in the back. But I’m sure he wouldn’t admit something like that. I just know what I saw on the paper. And I find it extremely hard to believe that the feds just don’t call anymore. I just made another purchase 3 weeks ago at a different FFL. And got called the next day to pick it up.

They had the legion in stock. And they’re close by. So I went for it. It was never my first choice for FFL. it’s too crowded. And filled with DFQ’s. But this was it for me. Far too many other stores in the area.

I posted this up so people are aware.

 

[amm5061]

There are good and bad things that revolve around a high volume shop like FS. The good is you can get better price and at times selection. The bad side is that personal service goes right out the window and you get what happened to you. I stopped going to FS on a regular basis as I hate the "Cattle" feel you have when in there. I'll pay a little more to my LGS as they know me by first name and provide excellent customer service. Better then the cattle call you get at FS.

I sent my FFL of choice a text yesterday asking if he had a specific gun in the shop. "Yes I do. $349" "I'm on my way."

15 minutes later I walk into the shop, he looks up and says, "Well that was fast!"

I walked out of there half an hour later with the gun I wanted.

 

[KevinR]

Their customer service is horrendous. Deli tickets to get to the counter n be rushed to purchase. No thank you. I always liked to shop where the customer service was priority #1, regardless of inventory. That's why now as an ffl that's my goal, to put my customers needs first.

 

[boiler_eng]

If you're buying something like a legion you've (probably) graduated beyond FS, probably years ago. I don't even have any problems with the shop, but its quite
obvious that its set up for a specific demographic of buyers.

That aside, did you bring this up with Carl specifically? I'm curious if thats their policy now to laze on delays, or if that was smoke being blown by someone that
works there. At least that way I know what to tell people to expect.

-Mike

I would agree, its a a store that is honest with how they are set up and how you will be doing business. When something happens that doesn't sit right with me, if I don't know if its a business decision or an employee taking latitudes where they shouldn't I pass it on to the business management/owner. Also, if it is related to a policy and it drives people off well at least they have a better idea of what the pinch point was.

When I was new to buying firearms I emailed a bunch of stores to ask if they had certain stuff and Carl was the only one who responded within maybe a week and spelled out what he did and did not carry along with the price. So if something irked me about his shop that wasn't common knowledge then I would just extend him the courtesy of an email about it.

 

[TomMontana]

The main reason for going to FS is to save money. This is like going to Walmart and complaining about the clientele and service level there.

 

[drgrant]

I didn’t bring it up with him. He’s always in the back. But I’m sure he wouldn’t admit something like that.

I just know what I saw on the paper. And I find it extremely hard to believe that the feds just don’t call anymore. I just made another purchase 3 weeks ago at a different FFL. And got called the next day to pick it up.

They had the legion in stock. And they’re close by. So I went for it. It was never my first choice for FFL. it’s too crowded. And filled with DFQ’s. But this was it for me. Far too many other stores in the area.

I posted this up so people are aware.

Yeah, but that still doesn't answer the question of whether or not it was his policy, unless he's the one that ran the BG check the
first time... I mean its pretty obvious someone blew smoke up your ass there.

The funny thing is that's a stupid way to lie to someone about that too- you would think they would just say "oh yeah. we'll call you
when they call us back" and then they get to go "oops, we forgot" etc. They were stupid enough to not even leave the door open for plausible
deniability.

Would be funny if BATFE was ever modernized so NICS could have an SMS alert when you get a proceed... then they'd be in a real pickle.

-Mike

 

[daekken]

All the more reason to shop with Steve at Northeast Arms. Rt 1 South.
Hit the gun shop, then the Cabaret!
Or swing back around for the Golden Banana
I swore off 4S and North Shore years ago.

I wouldn't swear off 4S if I moved back to MA (lol!) but despite having lived like 20 minutes away, I only ever ended up buying one firearm there (a 10/22). On a Tue-Thur it can be OK during the day, but forget about the weekend most times. When I lived in MA I regularly found ammo cheaper elsewhere, and I just don't buy guns like Shields typically.

While I think we all have some fun stories about things gun shop employees have said, my own FS tales are:

• Phone continuously rang busy one day, so I sent two emails a few days apart, neither of which were dignified with a response
• Was told that a certain gun wasn't legal in MA despite being advertised in one of their own email flyers
• Was told that Glock had told all dealers they won't accept repair shipments from FFLs, only private individuals (about an hour after a Glock rep confirmed an FFL could mail it)

It's by far not the worst shop, but it caters to the Shield/SR9/XD/generic commodity gun guy that wants to save $25-$75 from the lower volume shop close to him, and shoots a box or two every couple of months. If that's you and you want to shop there, go for it.

+1 for Northeast though, Steve was always a joy to deal with, responsive, friendly, direct, never had any problems. And, they even send you a thank you card.

 

[boiler_eng]

Their customer service is horrendous. Deli tickets to get to the counter n be rushed to purchase. No thank you. I always liked to shop where the customer service was priority #1, regardless of inventory. That's why now as an ffl that's my goal, to put my customers needs first.

I think there is a place in the market for both types of shops and people choose who to patronize. I don't always buy on price, but when I do I go to Four Seasons. When I buy there I have likely exhausted most options and can't get within 20% of the 4s price. So I go to the local friendly place and do all the try out and talking, then give them every opportunity to negotiate and if I can't get close enough then I pick out some carry ammo or something so they get some sales out of my taking up their time and then buy at 4s by standing in the cattle line ready to just bark what I want and make the check out to purchase.

 

[lewis]

The main reason for going to FS is to save money. This is like going to Walmart and complaining about the clientele and service level there.

It’s like going to Walmart but paying Nordstrom prices because you forgot to compare to amazon. If that makes sense. Lol.

 

[Rekonn]

Timely thread, just dealt with them this morning. I would advise anyone getting a gun transferred through them to contact them first to make sure they'll do it.

I would advise anyone doing a transfer to drive 2 miles away to Precision Point Firearms where they'll do it for half the price.

 

[CrackPot]

on NICS and 4473s.

My experience is all based on submitting 4473s electronically. I do not manually call in which may result in different behavior (like call backs).

When you submit the 4473 electronically and get a delay, getting updates is all based on MANUAL activity by the FFL. You have to log back into NICS and check on the status of open transactions. The ATF does not contact you by phone, email or any other means when someone changes from delay to proceed. Maybe they do when you initiate the transaction by phone, but they dont when you submit electronically. The only time the ATF calls is when the delay turns into denied.

So unless the shop has someone checking open transactions you are not getting a call. Big shops I cant imagine this happening. Since about 10% of transactions get delays and delays tend to sit open for 2-3 days, a high volume shop will have 10s or 100s of open delays at any point in time. Proactive checking and communication is not practical.

 

[Palladin]

Couldn't be bothered being treated like a number. Bought one lower on a GB and it was delivered there, demanded that I fill out an FFA 10 at that time. Said Carl has checked with his lawyer, and that was how they were going to do it.

Working in New Hampshire, I have 15 gun shops within 5 miles driving time. I have On Target, in Dracut, great personable shop

 

[daekken]

I would advise anyone doing a transfer to drive 2 miles away to Precision Point Firearms where they'll do it for half the price.

I assume whenever a shop has a high transfer cost they either:
a.) don't want to do transfers, and see them as a hassle so they try to dissuade people from using them
b.) are popular enough or well-known enough that they know some people will pay the higher cost anyway

I think in FS's case it's probably a little of both.

 

[SKumar]

They won't touch any gunsmithing work on an "assault rifle". Don't want to sell? Fine. But can't do work on one? Ridiculous.

 

[qqac]

I am going to wade into this 4 Seasons bashfest and say I like the place, the prices and the service. In my experience, Carl and his staff have always been friendly and accommodating, despite the frequently chaotic atmosphere caused by mobs of customers in the store. Carl has personally helped me on a $10 sale, as though it were a $1000 sale, ordering it and even calling me when the part came it. That being said, going during non-peak hours is always best.

 

[drgrant]

So unless the shop has someone checking open transactions you are not getting a call. Big shops I cant imagine this happening. Since about 10% of transactions get delays and delays tend to sit open for 2-3 days, a high volume shop will have 10s or 100s of open delays at any point in time. Proactive checking and communication is not practical.

That explains things better, but that's still just a shitty gun shop, though. Like as if it takes that long for them to log in and click a button? Even if they did it only once in the morning and made a list. I guess someone won't get what they didn't pay for, of course.... or in some cases, overpaid for....

If it was me I'd want the delay resolved ASAP so I can get the person's gun out of my shop- the faster they get their gun the happier they are likely
to be. Not to mention murphys law dictates that if you wait too long that person will invariably show up while you're in the middle of dealing with some other
clusterf*** in the shop.

-Mike

 

[sbi]

FS is the Costco of S&W and ammo, really nothing else to this gun store.

 

[lewis]

on NICS and 4473s.

My experience is all based on submitting 4473s electronically. I do not manually call in which may result in different behavior (like call backs).

When you submit the 4473 electronically and get a delay, getting updates is all based on MANUAL activity by the FFL. You have to log back into NICS and check on the status of open transactions. The ATF does not contact you by phone, email or any other means when someone changes from delay to proceed. Maybe they do when you initiate the transaction by phone, but they dont when you submit electronically. The only time the ATF calls is when the delay turns into denied.

So unless the shop has someone checking open transactions you are not getting a call. Big shops I cant imagine this happening. Since about 10% of transactions get delays and delays tend to sit open for 2-3 days, a high volume shop will have 10s or 100s of open delays at any point in time. Proactive checking and communication is not practical.

awesome. Ill go spend my money elsewhere then. At shops that can be bothered to check on delays. Since I think that goes along with customer service. If i could check it myself I would. Don't want to log on to manually check delays? fine, use the PHONE THEN! lol

 

[robjax]

I have to admit that it is nice to go into a shop and just chat half the day away about guns.
But I don't need the red carpet rolled out for me every time I walk through the door.
My time is valuable so before I go there I research what I want, I call to make sure they have it, then I take the ride.
It's usually a decent price as compared to other shops. If the savings isn't worth my time and gas and I can get it somewhere else I'll hit a shop closer to home.
Everyone knows what to expect when you go in there. I'm not saying they are overboard polite but they have never been disrespectful to me.
Always pleasant but focused. They are moving a lot of people through. That's the nature of the shop.
It's always crowded. But you're always bumping into other shoppers there looking at ammo or other stuff so there are lots of "excuse me's" and a chuckle here or there. We know it's crowded. I've Never had a bad experience there.

 

[GeorgeMason]

on NICS and 4473s.

My experience is all based on submitting 4473s electronically. I do not manually call in which may result in different behavior (like call backs).

When you submit the 4473 electronically and get a delay, getting updates is all based on MANUAL activity by the FFL. You have to log back into NICS and check on the status of open transactions. The ATF does not contact you by phone, email or any other means when someone changes from delay to proceed. Maybe they do when you initiate the transaction by phone, but they dont when you submit electronically. The only time the ATF calls is when the delay turns into denied.

So unless the shop has someone checking open transactions you are not getting a call. Big shops I cant imagine this happening. Since about 10% of transactions get delays and delays tend to sit open for 2-3 days, a high volume shop will have 10s or 100s of open delays at any point in time. Proactive checking and communication is not practical.

I’ve been delayed at Cabelas and they call me as soon as the proceed goes through. FS made me wait as well the one time I purchased from them. If you’re getting better service at a big box store than a local shop, the local shop is doing something wrong. Considering that Cabelas will price match, I don’t really see the point of going to 4s.

That explains things better, but that's still just a shitty gun shop, though. Like as if it takes that long for them to log in and click a button? Even if they did it only once in the morning and made a list. I guess someone won't get what they didn't pay for, of course.... or in some cases, overpaid for....

If it was me I'd want the delay resolved ASAP so I can get the person's gun out of my shop- the faster they get their gun the happier they are likely
to be. Not to mention murphys law dictates that if you wait too long that person will invariably show up while you're in the middle of dealing with some other
clusterf*** in the shop.

-Mike

^This. If the retail workers at Cabelas can do it, so can 4s. Clearly they choose not to, because they’re happy with the cattle/deli counter setup where customers are just a dollar sign.

 

[boiler_eng]

I have to admit that it is nice to go into a shop and just chat half the day away about guns.
But I don't need the red carpet rolled out for me every time I walk through the door.
My time is valuable so before I go there I research what I want, I call to make sure they have it, then I take the ride.
It's usually a decent price as compared to other shops. If the savings isn't worth my time and gas and I can get it somewhere else I'll hit a shop closer to home.
Everyone knows what to expect when you go in there. I'm not saying they are overboard polite but they have never been disrespectful to me.
Always pleasant but focused. They are moving a lot of people through. That's the nature of the shop.
It's always crowded. But you're always bumping into other shoppers there looking at ammo or other stuff so there are lots of "excuse me's" and a chuckle here or there. We know it's crowded. I've Never had a bad experience there.

The only bad experience I have had there was just a function of their business model. That is why most of the time I prefer to buy somewhere-else where I can casually talk to the person behind the counter without both the shop employee and the guy behind me annoyed at how long it is taking. High volume shop isn't the best place to ask a bunch of questions and sit there evaluating whether you want to purchase. So now I only would go in there if I know for a fact they have it in stock and that I plan on walking out with it as fast as possible.

 

[boiler_eng]

I’ve been delayed at Cabelas and they call me as soon as the proceed goes through. FS made me wait as well the one time I purchased from them. If you’re getting better service at a big box store than a local shop, the local shop is doing something wrong. Considering that Cabelas will price match, I don’t really see the point of going to 4s.



^This. If the retail workers at Cabelas can do it, so can 4s. Clearly they choose not to, because they’re happy with the cattle/deli counter setup where customers are just a dollar sign.

Yeah, its a business decision whether to follow up online about delays which fully warrants a consumer decision on where to buy from.

 

[robjax]

The only bad experience I have had there was just a function of their business model. That is why most of the time I prefer to buy somewhere-else where I can casually talk to the person behind the counter without both the shop employee and the guy behind me annoyed at how long it is taking. High volume shop isn't the best place to ask a bunch of questions and sit there evaluating whether you want to purchase. So now I only would go in there if I know for a fact they have it in stock and that I plan on walking out with it as fast as possible.

NO GUN FOR YOU!

 

[Salyeica]

I made a purchase there on Friday, and saved more than 15% off what I’d seen the item selling for at another shop. It was about 2pm, and the store was practically empty. Service was great (from Tim, I believe) and my buddy and I chatted with him and another employee for 15 min or so while buddy checked out some Legions. I try not to shop solely on price, but $100 is $100. And on another gun they could order for me, it would be a $70 savings off what I’d seen. Real money.

However, I’ve definitely experienced the shitshow that is the weekend rush at 4S, and i generally about face and nope my way out of there when it’s crowded. I don’t enjoy standing shoulder to shoulder with people in any situation, let alone when I’m a customer of a business. Most of the time I’m only kicking tires anyway, so I stay out of the paying customers’ way.

I certainly can understand others’ frustration/contempt for that shop and some of its policies, particularly with regard to transfers and evil extra killy black rifles/lowers, but I haven’t had the negative experiences some of you have.