Trading in a gun that is in someone else's name

[snubking]

So my friend is being given a gun by another friend that owes him a couple bucks. Both of the guys are properly licensed for the firearm in question. The friend who has received the gun wants to turn around and trade it in on something else at the gun shop as soon as he picks it up. Is there a law against trading in a gun that is registered to someone else? He said if he were going to hold on to in he would transfer the gun into his name but because he's trading it immediately and doesn't want to waste an EFA-10. Would doing this breaking any laws in Massachusetts? We both looked on the state website but couldn't find anything.

I would appreciate your help navigating the mass gun laws.

Thank you!!

 

[jpm]

By not doing an FA10 transfer when he took it, he's breaking the law.

 

[Queen Bee]

Until its been EFA10 into your friends posession, i assume if your friend tries to sell a gun that isnt registered to him... and the registered owner says its been stolen.. guess who is going down for robbery , selling stolen property.. etc....your friend is in big trouble

 

[pj150]

Why not just meet at the gun shop and have the owner of the gun relinquish it to the shop as the trade in?

 

[CTpatriot]

Why not just meet at the gun shop and have the owner of the gun relinquish it to the shop as the trade in?

that would be too easy.

 

[snubking]

You can borrow a gun from some one thou, correct? So him being in possession of a gun licensed to another is not against the law.

 

[jpm]

You can borrow a gun from some one thou, correct? So him being in possession of a gun licensed to another is not against the law.

trading it in is not borrowing.

 

[snubking]

trading it in is not borrowing.

you said when he took possession of the gun he was breaking the law. I was just making the argument that maynot be the case. My question was is the act of trading in a gun in someone else's name illegal?

 

[jpm]

He was given the gun as payment for a debt according to you, that is a transfer and its breaking the law if an FA10 wasn't done. Its pretty simple.

if he doesn't own it, he can't legally sell/trade it. It'd be similar to getting a car without a title and trying to sell/trade it.

 

[snubking]

i understand what your saying and I agree with you in princable but is that a on the books gun law? Your not required to show proof of ownership when trading in a gun as you are with a car. My only question is, Is it against the law to trade in a gun that is registered under someone else's name. Please disregard the circumstances that lead up to the moment of the trade.

 

[knfmn]

i understand what your saying and I agree with you in princable but is that a on the books gun law? Your not required to show proof of ownership when trading in a gun as you are with a car. My only question is, Is it against the law to trade in a gun that is registered under someone else's name. Please disregard the circumstances that lead up to the moment of the trade.

MA, at least in theory, doesn't have "registration" of firearms. They have "records of transactions" instead.

Having said that, regardless of what your friend is going to do with it after he gets it, he is breaking the law if he receives a firearm from someone else here without an FA10 being filed.

If your friend's buddy transfers the gun to him without doing an FA10, he is setting himself up for a world of hurt if the police ever come knocking with a list of firearms that he is supposed to have and he can neither produce them nor a record of their disposition.

Circling back to your original question: your friend could take a gun from someone else as a trade with the intention of trading it in on a different firearm at a gun shop. The only way you get in trouble with things along those lines is with "straw purchases", where someone gives your buddy cash and says "hey, go buy a gun for me."

IANAL and this isn't legal advice. The best thing for your friend to do is to keep everything on the up and up. Do it legally and he won't have anything to worry about. If the guy giving him the gun doesn't want to do an FA10, there is a reason. I would walk away from a situation like that in a big hurry.

 

[jpm]

If the guy giving him the gun doesn't want to do an FA10, there is a reason. I would walk away from a situation like that in a big hurry.

Yeah something stinks about that. Its October and he'll get 4 more transfers on Jan 1 so I'm not sure what he's worried about 'wasting one' for at this stage.

To answer the question, no he most likely won't need to show proof of ownership but all of his info will be recorded in the dealer's books as the apparent owner of the gun when he does the sale/trade. If the gun comes up as stolen or something, he's on the hook with no proof of where/how he got it. Its just a bad idea all around. The only time I can think of that proof would be required is if its a gun that is not on the approved list but was made before that requirement went into effect and you wanted to have it grandfathered. You'd need to show it was registered in state prior to the law which means you'd need the 'onion skin' form that was used back then.

 

[GPP]

MA, at least in theory, doesn't have "registration" of firearms. They have "records of transactions" instead.

Having said that, regardless of what your friend is going to do with it after he gets it, he is breaking the law if he receives a firearm from someone else here without an FA10 being filed.

If your friend's buddy transfers the gun to him without doing an FA10, he is setting himself up for a world of hurt if the police ever come knocking with a list of firearms that he is supposed to have and he can neither produce them nor a record of their disposition.

Circling back to your original question: your friend could take a gun from someone else as a trade with the intention of trading it in on a different firearm at a gun shop. The only way you get in trouble with things along those lines is with "straw purchases", where someone gives your buddy cash and says "hey, go buy a gun for me."

IANAL and this isn't legal advice. The best thing for your friend to do is to keep everything on the up and up. Do it legally and he won't have anything to worry about. If the guy giving him the gun doesn't want to do an FA10, there is a reason. I would walk away from a situation like that in a big hurry.

What law are you breaking if you cant produce a firearm on your "list" or have no record of its disposition?

 

[Whiskeyjim]

Assuming both guys MA LTC and transfer in MA, ch140 s.128a applies to the first guy (seller), not your friend.
Sorry can't think of any other laws that might prevent your friend from trading his property for something else he wants, or keeping it , but maybe someone else can come up with something..
IANAL.

 

[glide]

What law are you breaking if you cant produce a firearm on your "list" or have no record of its disposition?

None. Those 'lists' aren't accurate by any standards anyway.

 

[M1911]

i understand what your saying and I agree with you in princable but is that a on the books gun law? Your not required to show proof of ownership when trading in a gun as you are with a car. My only question is, Is it against the law to trade in a gun that is registered under someone else's name. Please disregard the circumstances that lead up to the moment of the trade.

Sorry, I won't disregard that.

You are required to file an EFA-10 if you buy, sell, find, or lose a gun. IIRC, you have seven days from the date of the transaction to file. Both the original owner and the second owner violated that law in the initial transaction. At this point, the state is not aware that this gun has changed ownership without the appropriate paperwork being filed.

Now, if the second owner sells the gun at a MA gun shop, he is making the Commonwealth's case for them. He would be selling a gun that was previously owned by someone else and they never registered the transaction.

My recommendation: don't create a paper trail of a crime. My recommendation (and I'm not a lawyer, so take this with the appropriate grains of salt) would be for the second owner to go to the previous owner and file the appropriate EFA-10. Wait a while and then sell it. Or, even simpler, just sell it to a dealer out of state.

 

[drgrant]

i understand what your saying and I agree with you in princable but is that a on the books gun law? Your not required to show proof of ownership when trading in a gun as you are with a car. My only question is, Is it against the law to trade in a gun that is registered under someone else's name. Please disregard the circumstances that lead up to the moment of the trade.

If you're willing to disregard those circumstances then why even ask the question? That's part of determining whether it's legal or not. (from end to end, at least).

-Mike

 

[spt_1955]

you said when he took possession of the gun he was breaking the law. I was just making the argument that maynot be the case. My question was is the act of trading in a gun in someone else's name illegal?

Seriously???

 

[drgrant]

If your friend's buddy transfers the gun to him without doing an FA10, he is setting himself up for a world of hurt if the police ever come knocking with a list of firearms that he is supposed to have and he can neither produce them nor a record of their disposition.

LOL, I see where you're going with this, but strictly speaking, this is 110% wrong.

-Mike

 

[Rob Boudrie]

By not doing an FA10 transfer when he took it, he's breaking the law.

Technically speaking it is the seller, and not the buyer, who broke the law.

 

[M1911]

Technically speaking it is the seller, and not the buyer, who broke the law.

I haven't looked at the appropriate sections of the law in a while. IIRC, one section put the onus on the buyer and the other section put the onus on the seller. Am I misremembering?

 

[GPP]

None. Those 'lists' aren't accurate by any standards anyway.

So, no "world of hurt" awaits those that cant account for the locations of the firearms on their "list"?

 

[jpm]

Technically speaking it is the seller, and not the buyer, who broke the law.

I think its both actually. The owner is supposed to transfer it to the new owner. New owner is supposed to register receipt of a gun if it wasn't transferred to him on FA10, like if you bought a gun from out of state on a C&R.