Traveling from Massachusetts to Wisconsin. FOPA in New York.

[dcmdon]

To be fair, arrests and trials don't get you case law. It has to go all the way to a verdict for that.

Fine, give me one arrest.

 

[dcmdon]

That is messed up.

I dont understand, how the f*ck do serious competitors handle this stuff, specially when they might have to spend 3 days at an event?

Isn't there a big long range competition held in NJ?

I know people say if you have a piece of paper saying you are competing you are fine. But, are we?

They don't have problems because they don't go driving crazy and picking up whores.

Also, many states have competition carve outs.

 

[dcmdon]

I thought it was $100.

I said I had offered 100 in the past. Times are tough. I'm paying $100 per thousand for primers. Ha. (not really. I've got a good stash)

 

[ScottS]

They don't have problems because they don't go driving crazy and picking up whores.

Also, many states have competition carve outs.

Wait...this is off the table now?

 

[dcmdon]

Wait...this is off the table now?

Only in Jersey City.

 

[GML]

He flew from West Coast to his home in W. PA, however he missed the connecting flight home out of Newark. Airline forced him to take his luggage (legally checked firearm) with him to the hotel overnight and when he checked back in to get that last leg flight home, they arrested him. He appealed all the way to NJ supreme court and they agreed that he never opened the bag with the gun, but he was in illegal possession of a gun in NJ. Gov. Crispy Creme commuted his sentence when he was running for president. He spent 3 yrs in NJ prison and is a PP now.

Wow, that is just effed up beyond belief...

 

[Racenet]

I said I had offered 100 in the past. Times are tough. I'm paying $100 per thousand for primers. Ha. (not really. I've got a good stash)

But you said you still have the money, so it wasn't paid out. That doesn't mean the offer is off the table, just because you decided to cut it in half now with another offer. In actuality, there are now 2 different offers, for a total of $150, you cheap bastard.

 

[Racenet]

Only in Jersey City.

You wouldn't want those whores anyway.

 

[granitestater]

no reason to stop in NY state. gas up before you get into NY, do not stop.

I shudder to think what would happen if you break down crossing over to scranton....but pray for a little luck and you will be good.

THIS!

And why would any self respecting gun owner want to stop in NY and spend money and fuel their leftist economy and feed tax $$ to the state. I 84 west, fuel up in Connecticut and it is about 70 miles in NY and then you are in Pennsylvania. Or , take I95 through southern Connecticut and the Tappen zie bridge, that route has you in NY for less than 30 miles. Granted you are then in NJ but then theres this:

Firearms Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ's) | New Jersey State Police

specifically numbers 6 and 25.

NY has not such webpage (at least not that I can find). I would print that and keep it in the car along with a printed copy of 18 USC 926A

18 U.S. Code § 926A - Interstate transportation of firearms

you guys are WAY overthinking this. the problems are at airports not on the roads.

 

[rivet_42]

no reason to stop in NY state. gas up before you get into NY, do not stop.

Yup. Not only that, gas taxes are stupid-expensive in NY and CT, wait till you get to PA even if you don't have guns for that reason alone.

 

[KBCraig]

He flew from West Coast to his home in W. PA, however he missed the connecting flight home out of Newark. Airline forced him to take his luggage (legally checked firearm) with him to the hotel overnight and when he checked back in to get that last leg flight home, they arrested him.

The airline didn't force him, IIRC. He chose to pick up his luggage, and then asked the airline to hold it for him. They declined.

If you're ever in that situation in NY or NJ (or MD or Chicago), just leave your bag and let the airline get it to you at your destination. As a carrier, they are exempt, but you are not.

 

[ScottS]

The airline didn't force him, IIRC. He chose to pick up his luggage, and then asked the airline to hold it for him. They declined.

If you're ever in that situation in NY or NJ (or MD or Chicago), just leave your bag and let the airline get it to you at your destination. As a carrier, they are exempt, but you are not.

I can find no reference to him asking the airline to hold the bag, or of them declining. Here's the text from REVELL v. PORT AUTHORITY OF NEW YORK, NEW JERSEY

"Because his flight into Newark was late, Revell missed his connection from Newark to Allentown. He booked the next flight to Allentown, which was scheduled to leave Newark at 8 p.m. that evening, but, after the airline changed arrangements, the passengers scheduled for that flight were asked to board a bus, instead of a plane, headed for Allentown. Revell got on the bus; however, when he learned that his luggage was not on board, he got off to locate it. [In a triple-whammy for Revell, not only had the airline made him miss his connection and then put him on a bus instead of a plane, a Northwest employee had mistakenly checked his luggage to Newark, instead of Allentown, as his final destination.] By the time he retrieved his luggage, he had missed the bus, and no other connections to Allentown were available. He then went directly to the Newark Airport Sheraton Hotel in a hotel shuttle, taking his luggage with him."

I absolutely agree with your comment to "leave your bag." I'd avoid it like it was radioactive.

 

[KBCraig]

I can find no reference to him asking the airline to hold the bag, or of them declining. Here's the text from REVELL v. PORT AUTHORITY OF NEW YORK, NEW JERSEY

"Because his flight into Newark was late, Revell missed his connection from Newark to Allentown. He booked the next flight to Allentown, which was scheduled to leave Newark at 8 p.m. that evening, but, after the airline changed arrangements, the passengers scheduled for that flight were asked to board a bus, instead of a plane, headed for Allentown. Revell got on the bus; however, when he learned that his luggage was not on board, he got off to locate it. [In a triple-whammy for Revell, not only had the airline made him miss his connection and then put him on a bus instead of a plane, a Northwest employee had mistakenly checked his luggage to Newark, instead of Allentown, as his final destination.] By the time he retrieved his luggage, he had missed the bus, and no other connections to Allentown were available. He then went directly to the Newark Airport Sheraton Hotel in a hotel shuttle, taking his luggage with him."

I absolutely agree with your comment to "leave your bag." I'd avoid it like it was radioactive.

Your cite is better than my memory.

The point stands: he went searching for his luggage and retrieved it, and that's what got him in a jam.

 

[ScottS]

Your cite is better than my memory.

The point stands: he went searching for his luggage and retrieved it, and that's what got him in a jam.

Absolutely agree.

 

[Len-2A Training]

Who here wouldn't go search for their missing luggage when a gun is in the bag?

 

[Spanz]

The airline didn't force him, IIRC. He chose to pick up his luggage, and then asked the airline to hold it for him. They declined.

If you're ever in that situation in NY or NJ (or MD or Chicago), just leave your bag and let the airline get it to you at your destination. As a carrier, they are exempt, but you are not.

yes, this

 

[Spanz]

Who here wouldn't go search for their missing luggage when a gun is in the bag?

if i were in ny or nj?

i would not touch the thing. I might go looking for an airline employee to grab it off of the baggage claim conveyor

a close 2nd would be grab the bag, go straight to the car rental counter, and get the hell out of dodge. it was probably a 1 1/2 hour drive to home from there

 

[ScottS]

Who here wouldn't go search for their missing luggage when a gun is in the bag?

In his situation? Me, for one.
In my mind, three possible outcomes:
1. The airline recovers the bag (from the carousel, or wherever), contacts me for delivery info, and delivers it to me in Harrisburg (most likely). Best outcome.
2. The airline recovers the bag, and sends the it back to my address in Utah. I can live with that. I'll buy new underwear for the trip.
3. The bag is never seen again. (least likely, but possible) I file a claim, buy a new handgun (for less money than two hours of an attorney's time), and go on with my life.

I wouldn't care if my bag contained the matching dueling pistols used in the Burr/Hamilton duel, and I'm going to lose them forever. I'm not taking possession of that luggage.

 

[kalash]

Who here wouldn't go search for their missing luggage when a gun is in the bag?

In NY/NJ/CA/etc? The ONLY way I'd touch that bag is to head straight to a car rental place. I would NEVER approach an airline counter in those states and declare that I have a gun.


That said, come to think of it... When I checked a gun at Logan they didn't ask for a license.

 

[NHKevin]

Lots of gun owners aren't this well educated on the laws in discussion.

 

[AHM]

Who here wouldn't go search for their missing luggage when a gun is in the bag?

(As hinted later), it's like a dog chasing cars -
what does it plan to do when it finally catches one?

In NY/NJ/CA/etc? The ONLY way I'd touch that bag is to head straight to a car rental place.

Spoiler: Careful with that

God help you if the airport workers figured out it was a gun and dropped a dime before you found it.

Before you say it's far-fetched,
it's what they'd do if it was a key of coke...

 

[cathouse01]

Lots of gun owners aren't this well educated on the laws in discussion.

^^^This. Those of us living in restrictive states like Mass are used to paying close attention to all the sundry firearms laws. Most folks living in free states probably aren’t even aware of FOPA or how it is often ignored in NY and NJ.

 

[dcmdon]

^^^This. Those of us living in restrictive states like Mass are used to paying close attention to all the sundry firearms laws. Most folks living in free states probably aren’t even aware of FOPA or how it is often ignored in NY and NJ.

It is only ignored at Port Authority airports in NY and NJ. I know of no documented cases of trouble anywhere else in those states. Most specifically driving the interstates or the Jersey Turnpike.

 

[ScottS]

It is only ignored at Port Authority airports in NY and NJ. I know of no documented cases of trouble anywhere else in those states. Most specifically driving the interstates or the Jersey Turnpike.

Don't limit it to Port Authority Airports. Long Island McArthur Airport is also an offender:

"Almost immediately upon checking into the New Jersey hotel, [Matthew] Weasner received a call notifying him of a family emergency. He purchased the cheapest plane ticket he could find, which departed from Long Island MacArthur Airport (“LIMA”), New York in route to Ohio, and, with all of his property, drove straight from New Jersey to the airport in New York. Included in this property was a Ruger pistol, purchased by his grandfather and given to him by his father, properly unloaded and packaged according to TSA regulations. Weasner had carried that firearm, apparently without incident, on his various trips to or from Ohio and California.

When Weasner arrived at the airport ninety minutes before his flight, he informed the agent at the airline ticket counter that he had a firearm to declare. The agent made a call and soon after appellee Officer Passalaqua arrived and asked Weasner to accompany him to a TSA office, which Weasner did. Weasner explained to Officer Passalacqua that he was passing through New York on his way from New Jersey to his home state, Ohio, and showed Officer Passalaqua his plane ticket. Officer Passalacqua left for about thirty minutes, and when he returned told Weasner that there was no record of the firearm in the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (“BATF”) database. Weasner stated that the gun had been purchased by his grandfather before record keeping rules were in effect and thus would only show up in the database if he had used it to commit a crime. During the course of these interactions, Weasner did not alert Officer Passalaqua to Section 926A, though he did tell him that he had complied with the packaging regulations for transporting a firearm and had traveled with it frequently, noting that his gun case included a check tag from the TSA in California. At some point, Officer Passalaqua handcuffed Weasner and led him to a back room, where he was kept, handcuffed, for about twenty minutes. He was then taken to the police station, where he was fingerprinted, and subsequently charged with illegal possession of a firearm under New York Penal Law § 265.01. Weasner made bail that day and flew home to Ohio without his gun. The charges against Weasner were subsequently dismissed."

General rule: Airport--Bad. Driving--Good.

 

[drgrant]

That is messed up.

I dont understand, how the f*ck do serious competitors handle this stuff, specially when they might have to spend 3 days at an event?

Isn't there a big long range competition held in NJ?

I know people say if you have a piece of paper saying you are competing you are fine. But, are we?

The reality is nobody cares, people sack up, secure their shit, shut their mouths, don't drive like jerks, and just go compete wherever. Hell MAs competition exemption is legally invalid as written (according to the guida interpretation) but that doesn't seem to deter anyone.

 

[dcmdon]

The reality is nobody cares, people sack up, secure their shit, shut their mouths, don't drive like jerks, and just go compete wherever. Hell MAs competition exemption is legally invalid as written (according to the guida interpretation) but that doesn't seem to deter anyone.

EXACTLY. If you are seeking zero risk, then just sit in your basement and polish your musket collection.

Despite the fact that some of the really smart people on this list have shown that the MA competition exemption is worthless, Its always been taken at face value by LE.

 

[Len-2A Training]

EXACTLY. If you are seeking zero risk, then just sit in your basement and polish your musket collection.

Despite the fact that some of the really smart people on this list have shown that the MA competition exemption is worthless, Its always been taken at face value by LE.

My trepidation with this is that Glidden has been teaching his chiefs/LOs differently for the past few years. So assuming someone does get stopped and talks too much (extremely likely), the situation is very likely to change. That is why I warn people about this.

 

[drgrant]

My trepidation with this is that Glidden has been teaching his chiefs/LOs differently for the past few years. So assuming someone does get stopped and talks too much (extremely likely), the situation is very likely to change. That is why I warn people about this.

What does the current version of his shitty book say? If he hasn't changed it in there, hes still likely reciting the old stuff.

 

[drgrant]

EXACTLY. If you are seeking zero risk, then just sit in your basement and polish your musket collection.

Despite the fact that some of the really smart people on this list have shown that the MA competition exemption is worthless, Its always been taken at face value by LE.

Well, "possibly maybe". I mean lets be realistic here, think of how low the probability of it is of even getting tested.

A typical MA gun competitor does the following- comes to town with their stuff locked up out of sight, goes to a match, gets the f*** out, probably mid afternoon, drives home. Unless they get in a horrendous car wreck, or has a heart attack or something on the way home, there's not likely going to be a trigger event which turns into a vehicle inventory + spanish inquisition type of event. The odds of winning powerball are probably only slightly worse than that.

 

[Len-2A Training]

What does the current version of his shitty book say? If he hasn't changed it in there, hes still likely reciting the old stuff.

He stated it in 2014, last time I attended his seminar. He updates and publishes the book twice a year, so likely in there now. The latest book I have is from a number of years ago.