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Traveling to AFS

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So, I've searched and found a few posts relating to the Mass laws and transporting into the state, but I just can't seem to find a direct answer. If someone could set me straight I'd appreciate it. I have an M&P9c, a .22 Baretta, and a M&P15s, and I am thinking about joining AFS in Attleboro and traveling there on a fairly regular basis from Rhode Island. So at the risk of muddying the waters more, I have a few questions.
Can I legally lock up the guns, and lock up the ammo separately, and bring my guns into Massachusetts to a range even though there isn't a listed event or competition? I think I am reading that I cannot legally do that, but find it hard to believe since I hear that lots of people do. The guy at AFS said it was legal, but ... well ... they have another agends I think.
*If* I can bring the guns, will I need to only bring in 10 round max clips?

I hate to be the guy that is asking this question again, but if it has been asked I couldn't find it.

Thanks for your patience.
 
In regards to the magazines, you can bring over 10 round mags if they are pre-ban.

As for what AFS said, my understanding is that the only reason a can bring firearms legally into MA without a nones LTC is for a sanctioned competition (Im sure there is some other rule for hunting too, but I don't follow hunting laws).

I see people come from RI to shoot there all the time, and from my understanding is that it technically isn't legal. I will defer this to someone better versed in this aspect of MA firearm law, however.
 
There's no exemption in MGL for recreational shooting by unwashed nonresidents. The competition exemption that exists, is also legally invalid but it's never been pressed in court, but if Guida was able to find it you know the state knows it. Proceed at your own risk. There are a shitload of people who "fake FOPA" their way into MA to shoot competition but that doesn't make it legal, so if you're one of those afraid of own shadow types that stains their pants every time a cop pulls you over with guns in his car you probably don't want to do it. (Not saying you are, specifically but there are shitloads of these people around. )

ETA: Some exemptions might be OK for boring stuff like fudd guns but I'm going to guess you're not bringing a bolt action .22 to shoot at AFS, lol. (I haven't looked at that portion of the law much)
 
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There are allegations from about the beginning of this forum that employees at AFS have told some very tall tales to RI residents about them having a special exemption by MA State Police for people to bring guns to AFS to shoot. I was told by the trustee of AFS that this never happened, but it's been alleged by enough people over many years to make me believe otherwise. MA State Police can't interpret MGL, can't grant "exemptions" either. It is blatantly illegal to bring ANY handguns or large capacity long guns (plus large capacity mags for anything, pre-ban or otherwise) into MA for ANY reason, period. ONLY exemptions are for LEOs and those with a MA NR LTC (pre-ban only on AWs and large-cap mags).

I won't speculate on the chances of getting caught and charged with multiple felonies, I'll leave that for others.

Proceed at your own risk.

----------------------------------------

If you want the genesis of why C. 140 S. 131G is a bogus "exemption" do a search of the forum, I've laid it out in all the gory detail a number of times ever since Atty. Jason Guida (FRB Director at that time) educated me about it.
 
There are now two public indoor ranges in RI, so one of those may be to your liking. Both offer similar experiences to what AFS has.

1. Midstate Gun Co in Coventry
2. Sakonnet River Outfitters in Tiverton (range just opened this month).

I've been to Midstate, it's a very nice, clean new range, $25 / hr for non-members, about $250 per year for membership.
Sakonnet I believe is also $25 / hr, and $300 per year membership.
 
There are now two public indoor ranges in RI, so one of those may be to your liking. Both offer similar experiences to what AFS has.

1. Midstate Gun Co in Coventry
2. Sakonnet River Outfitters in Tiverton (range just opened this month).

I've been to Midstate, it's a very nice, clean new range, $25 / hr for non-members, about $250 per year for membership.
Sakonnet I believe is also $25 / hr, and $300 per year membership.

If I lived in RI I would be exploring these options. It's a fair possibility that in addition to avoiding the legal BS, these places are better than AFS anyways. Nearly every AFS expat I talk to basically says they only shot there out of necessity, and that's putting it mildly. [laugh]

-Mike
 
In regards to the magazines, you can bring over 10 round mags if they are pre-ban.

As for what AFS said, my understanding is that the only reason a can bring firearms legally into MA without a nones LTC is for a sanctioned competition (Im sure there is some other rule for hunting too, but I don't follow hunting laws).

I see people come from RI to shoot there all the time, and from my understanding is that it technically isn't legal. I will defer this to someone better versed in this aspect of MA firearm law, however.

C.140 S.129C provides a number of exemptions to the FID requirement for non-residents. Under various exemptions, non-residents are exempt from the FID requirement most commonly when either transporting a cased rifle or shotgun within or through the Commonwealth, when hunting under a valid license, or on a range. I've highlighted, in neon green, the FID exemptions that are exclusive to non-residents. Others (except (j))are written in a way that do not (in and of themselves) limit applicability to residents or non residents. (In effect, (u) is meaningless now)

Please understand that while the C.140 S. 129C exemptions use the terms rifle and shotgun broadly, they are in effect exemptions ONLY for non-large capacity rifles and shotguns. There is no exemption to the requirement to possess an LTC in order to generally possess large capacity weapons. In other words bringing an AR, AK, or other large capacity rifle or shotgun to Mass requires an NR-LTC (in addition to meeting ban requirements).

The provisions of this section shall not apply to the following exempted persons and uses:(a) Any device used exclusively for signalling or distress use and required or recommended by the United States Coast Guard or the Interstate Commerce Commission, or for the firing of stud cartridges, explosive rivets or similar industrial ammunition;
(b) Federally licensed firearms manufacturers or wholesale dealers, or persons employed by them or by licensed dealers, or on their behalf, when possession of firearms, rifles or shotguns is necessary for manufacture, display, storage, transport, installation, inspection or testing;
(c) To a person voluntarily surrendering a firearm, rifle or shotgun and ammunition therefor to a licensing authority, the colonel of the state police or his designee if prior written notice has been given by said person to the licensing authority or the colonel of the state police, stating the place and approximate time of said surrender;
(d) The regular and ordinary transport of firearms, rifles or shotguns as merchandise by any common carrier;
(e) Possession by retail customers for the purpose of firing at duly licensed target concessions at amusement parks, piers and similar locations, provided that the firearms, rifles or shotguns to be so used are firmly chained or affixed to the counter and that the proprietor is in possession of a firearm identification card or license to carry firearms;
(f) Possession of rifles and shotguns and ammunition therefor by nonresident hunters with valid nonresident hunting licenses during hunting season;
(g) Possession of rifles and shotguns and ammunition therefor by nonresidents while on a firing or shooting range;
(h) Possession of rifles and shotguns and ammunition therefor by nonresidents traveling in or through the commonwealth, providing that any rifles or shotguns are unloaded and enclosed in a case;
(i) Possession of rifles and shotguns by nonresidents while at a firearm showing or display organized by a regularly existing gun collectors' club or association;
(j) Any resident of the commonwealth returning after having been absent from the commonwealth for not less than 180 consecutive days or any new resident moving into the commonwealth, with respect to any firearm, rifle or shotgun and any ammunition therefor then in his possession, for 60 days after such return or entry into the commonwealth;
(k) Any person under the age of fifteen with respect to the use of a rifle or shotgun by such person in hunting or target shooting, provided that such use is otherwise permitted by law and is under the immediate supervision of a person holding a firearm identification card or a license to carry firearms, or a duly commissioned officer, noncommissioned officer or enlisted member of the United States Army, Navy, Marine Corps, Air Force or Coast Guard, or the National Guard or military service of the commonwealth or reserve components thereof, while in the performance of his duty;
(l) The possession or utilization of any rifle or shotgun during the course of any television, movie, stage or other similar theatrical production, or by a professional photographer or writer for examination purposes in the pursuit of his profession, providing such possession or utilization is under the immediate supervision of a holder of a firearm identification card or a license to carry firearms;
(m) The temporary holding, handling or firing of a firearm for examination, trial or instruction in the presence of a holder of a license to carry firearms, or the temporary holding, handling or firing of a rifle or shotgun for examination, trial or instruction in the presence of a holder of a firearm identification card, or where such holding, handling or firing is for a lawful purpose;
(n) The transfer of a firearm, rifle or shotgun upon the death of an owner to his heir or legatee shall be subject to the provisions of this section, provided that said heir or legatee shall within one hundred and eighty days of such transfer, obtain a firearm identification card or a license to carry firearms if not otherwise an exempt person who is qualified to receive such or apply to the licensing authority for such further limited period as may be necessary for the disposition of such firearm, rifle or shotgun;
(o) Persons in the military or other service of any state or of the United States, and police officers and other peace officers of any jurisdiction, in the performance of their official duty or when duly authorized to possess them;
(p) Carrying or possession by residents or nonresidents of so-called black powder rifles, shotguns, and ammunition therefor as described in such paragraphs (A) and (B) of the third paragraph of section 121, and the carrying or possession of conventional rifles, shotguns, and ammunition therefor by nonresidents who meet the requirements for such carrying or possession in the state in which they reside.
[There is no clause (q).]
(r) Possession by a veteran's organization chartered by the Congress of the United States, chartered by the commonwealth or recognized as a nonprofit tax-exempt organization by the Internal Revenue Service and possession by the members of any such organization when on official parade duty or ceremonial occasions.
(s) Possession by federal, state and local historical societies, museums, and institutional collections open to the public, provided such firearms, rifles or shotguns are unloaded, properly housed and secured from unauthorized handling;
(t) the possession of firearms, rifles, shotguns, machine guns and ammunition, by banks or institutional lenders, or their agents, servants or employees, when the same are possessed as collateral for a secured commercial transaction or as a result of a default under a secured commercial transaction.
(u) Any nonresident who is eighteen years of age or older at the time of acquiring a rifle or shotgun from a licensed firearms dealer; provided, however, that such nonresident must hold a valid firearms license from his state of residence; provided, further, that the licensing requirements of such nonresident's state of residence are as stringent as the requirements of the commonwealth for a firearm identification card, as determined by the colonel of the state police who shall, annually, publish a list of those states whose requirements comply with the provisions of this clause.
 
Keep your toys at home. AFS rents all kind of toys

AFS won't rent to people coming in alone.. Even with LTC.. need a buddy.

On that note, if he came with a friend with a MA LTC, would he be OK? Ie, MA friend meets at his house in RI and they drive together to AFS?

I have a bunch of RI friends without MA LTC's that are similar to OP.
 
Yes as long as a person with a MA LTC can claim to "control" the guns while being transported AND that they meet the AWB/mag ban what EMTDAD proposes would be legal.
 
If I lived in RI I would be exploring these options. It's a fair possibility that in addition to avoiding the legal BS, these places are better than AFS anyways. Nearly every AFS expat I talk to basically says they only shot there out of necessity, and that's putting it mildly. [laugh]

-Mike

Since the concrete block walls inside the range have no sound blocking insulation on them and they allow ARs to be shot there, the noise level (including reverb off the walls) is a real problem. I have never shot there even when they offered free range time in the early days for special events. I did teach one BFS course with a friend who used the place before he had his own training classroom and the noise level and lack of safety (muzzle, muzzle, muzzle) by others on the range were things that I would not tolerate as a shooter interested in safety.
 
AFS won't rent to people coming in alone.. Even with LTC.. need a buddy.

On that note, if he came with a friend with a MA LTC, would he be OK? Ie, MA friend meets at his house in RI and they drive together to AFS?

I have a bunch of RI friends without MA LTC's that are similar to OP.

From their website:

All participants must have a firearms license and have a handgun of their own with them, or havesomeone shooting with them in order to rent a handgun.

I take this to mean that if you come alone you have to have your own piece... if you don't have your own, you have to bring a friend. In any case you have to have LTC.

Am I wrong? I ask because it right down the road and I'm curious about rentals.
 
All participants must have a firearms license and have a handgun of their own with them, or have someone shooting with them in order to rent a handgun.

The "no shoot alone" is common with commercial ranges, though in some areas, the prevailing practice is "cannot shoot alone unless you have an LTC".

The concern is suicide, and the assumption that this is less likely if you are with someone.

I assume that are planning on someone shooting alone to have the courtesy to use their own gun if they off themselves.
 
The "no shoot alone" is common with commercial ranges, though in some areas, the prevailing practice is "cannot shoot alone unless you have an LTC".

The concern is suicide, and the assumption that this is less likely if you are with someone.

I assume that are planning on someone shooting alone to have the courtesy to use their own gun if they off themselves.

I believe AFS won't let you rent anything, LTC or not, without a friend.

I think that if you are determined to turn your own gun on yourself, you aren't really concerned with doing it at a public place...
 
I only ever went to AFS once - probably in 2013. I was alone and an RI resident - they rented me a gun and sold me ammo to shoot there. Had no idea what MA laws were like at the time.

No I wonder how I could buy ammo in MA w/o a FID and with them having no way to confirm I wouldn't leave with some...

Either way, I'll never be back. No RSO on the line. Some 15-16 year old kid was there with his mom, shooting a Beretta. When he finally hit the target (maybe 3-5 yards away) he turned around and started yelling like a little girl to his mom "I hit it!", waving the loaded gun around all the while.

Midstate is great. Friendly, centrally located, and they generally have multiple RSOs out on the line. I was a founding member for a couple years but now just suck it up and shoot outside in the winter or pay for a few sessions if there's a lot of snow.

I've got a buddy who used to take his Glock 19 and standard cap mags to AFS (he's a fellow Rhode Islander) - he called and they told him it was fine. I told him to send an email and see if he got the same response - he never heard back.

All of that said, I've got to think AFS knows someone. Otherwise the cops could pop a handful of unwitting Rhode Islanders a week and show how tough on gun crime they are.
 
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Peter, most cops in MA don't know the gun laws and don't care about them unless the person is acting otherwise criminally (not malum prohibitum). But those in LE that do care would be likely to setup a sting operation and take the place down if they decide to go after the law breaking (malum prohibitum) stuff. It would make great headlines for someone running for higher office (DA to AG for an example)!!
 
I think that if you are determined to turn your own gun on yourself, you aren't really concerned with doing it at a public place...
Plus, contingency fee counsel cannot argue that you would not have shot yourself but for the rental of a gun.

Rentals do not go through MIRCS or NICS, so it is possible that an LTC holder who would have failed one of those could rent a gun, off himself, and leave heirs looking to get rich off of AFS.

Also, I believe AFS has had one suicide. It it possible that these restrictions are the result of a friendly conversation with the local PD over what "reasonable precautions" are.
 
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Thank you all for your insights and replies. So it seems that (by the neon green highlighting) I might be OK ... but I am concerned about that lone cop whose wife pissed him off before he left for work. I don't think I'm interested in having to go to court to be exonerated.

Midstate looks great but it is a little far, Sayles Hill seems to be a waste of time, Wallum Lake is a little further than I wanted and a little more money but I guess it's the frontrunner right now with no waiting list. Woonsocket and Manville have waiting lists.

I appreciate all the time you took to fill me in. Thank you.
 
Thank you all for your insights and replies. So it seems that (by the neon green highlighting) I might be OK ... but I am concerned about that lone cop whose wife pissed him off before he left for work.

I have an M&P9c, a .22 Baretta, and a M&P15s, and I am thinking about joining AFS in Attleboro and traveling there on a fairly regular basis from Rhode Island.

I'm not sure how you reached that conclusion!

M&P 9c is a handgun - forbidden.
M&P 15s is on the MA Large Capacity Roster - forbidden.
.22 Berretta is a handgun - forbidden.

So without a MA NR LTC none of the above even with low-capacity mags are legal to possess in MA.

The highlighted green info is strictly about low capacity LONGGUNS only!
 
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