Tsongas Arena Security Fail

Exactly,

I always set off the detectors because of my aftermarket parts and do the same as the OP and they wand me.

If I don’t set off the detectors I know that it is security theater and that they have the sensitivity turned way down to speed up the processing of guests.
For a number of years if I had plenty of time at the airport I'd entertain myself by testing whether or not various size harmless metal objects would make it through the detectors. Pre 911, stuff like a stainless bottle opener would make it, so a box cutter with a plastic handle should have been easy
 
For a number of years if I had plenty of time at the airport I'd entertain myself by testing whether or not various size harmless metal objects would make it through the detectors. Pre 911, stuff like a stainless bottle opener would make it, so a box cutter with a plastic handle should have been easy
That's because most of the "metal detectors" at airports are actually magnetic anomaly discriminators. They don't look for metal per se, they look for the magnet field effect of a specific range of metallic elements in particular concentrations.

A couple quarters in your pocket won't set it off. Add in a few full copper pennies and a couple stainless Canadian coins and now you are in the range of small derringer type firearms as far as the magnetic deviations go.
 
That's because most of the "metal detectors" at airports are actually magnetic anomaly discriminators. They don't look for metal per se, they look for the magnet field effect of a specific range of metallic elements in particular concentrations.

A couple quarters in your pocket won't set it off. Add in a few full copper pennies and a couple stainless Canadian coins and now you are in the range of small derringer type firearms as far as the magnetic deviations go.
Good explanation.

Funny thing about the detectors in China. I've dressed in clothes with ZERO metal- no zippers, buttons, rivets, not even tiny metal grommets for shoe laces etc.; yet somehow manage to set off the detectors. LOL I think someone is pressing a button to make sure I get the pat down. I started choosing security lanes based on which one has the cute female officers as the pat-downs tend to be a little aggressive. Flying back from Bangalore, I once had no choice but to get the pat-down from a handlebar mustache guy that was pretty much the Indian version of the dudes in the Police Academy 'The Blue Oyster' bar scene...

EYsQSP.gif
 
I will plead ignorance about the location of the Tsongas building however. No idea where it is physically located, so if it is physically located on an educational property, my prior statement would not be correct.
That nuance is absent from a prior statement by an NES expert.

Buying naming rights to a commercial building however does not make it a school for GFSZ purposes, any more than a place like TD Garden would be a bank.
They own the arena where their college teams play.
 
That nuance is absent from a prior statement by an NES expert.


They own the arena where their college teams play.
It's not ownership, it's whether or not it is either contigious college property (I looked at Google Maps and couldn't determine that) or if it is in-use by a college at the time. Ergo, Gillette Stadium when BC plays there makes the stadium a "college" while they are there.

If it were mere ownership, then most of Comm Ave across from a lot of BU college buildings and the storefronts across from NU would be off-limits too as the properties are owned by those colleges (but not used as educational properties, just revenue generators).
 
It's not ownership, it's whether or not it is either contigious college property (I looked at Google Maps and couldn't determine that) or if it is in-use by a college at the time. Ergo, Gillette Stadium when BC plays there makes the stadium a "college" while they are there.
MGL Ch. 260 §10(j): Carrying dangerous weapons; ...

For the purposes of this paragraph, ''firearm'' shall mean any pistol, revolver, rifle or smoothbore arm from which a shot, bullet or pellet can be discharged.​
Whoever, not being a law enforcement officer and notwithstanding any license obtained by the person pursuant to chapter 140, carries on the person a firearm, loaded or unloaded, or other dangerous weapon in any building or on the grounds of any elementary or secondary school, college or university without the written authorization of the board or officer in charge of the elementary or secondary school, college or university shall be punished by a fine of not more than $1,000 or by imprisonment for not more than 2 years or both. A law enforcement officer may arrest without a warrant and detain a person found carrying a firearm in violation of this paragraph.​

(Unfortunately, no criminal model jury instructions for Ch. 269 §10(j).
Maybe someone here will get jacked up and a District Court judge will
compose some for submission to the library).

UMass/Lowell 2020 Annual Security Report
Published in the Year 2021

...​
Message from the Chief of Police​
The UMass Lowell Police Department is a full-service police department with more than 30 sworn officers. Our officers receive municipal police academy training and have full authority to enforce the laws of the Commonwealth. Each officer attends an annual in-service training program as well as a host of specialized training programs. The UMass Lowell Police Department operates 24 hours per day. Besides patrol, we also conduct criminal investigations and provide crime prevention and educational services at the UMass Lowell campus. ...​
Our objective is for you to achieve your educational goals in a safe and secure environment. Additionally, we appreciate the importance of cultural and social growth. Therefore, we provide resources to support activities like performances at the Tsongas Center at UMass Lowell, athletic events, cultural events and other events around campus.​

So UMassPD thinks that even activities like performances at the Tsongas (bands?) are "events around campus".

Does anyone here think the campus cops have received instructions
to nope away from guns on the grounds right up to the
"CEIA PMD2 Plus Elliptic walkthrough metal detectors" that they are so proud of?

If it were mere ownership, then most of Comm Ave across from a lot of BU college buildings and the storefronts across from NU would be off-limits too as the properties are owned by those colleges (but not used as educational properties, just revenue generators).
Does BU provide campus security to those commercial tenants?
 
It's not ownership, it's whether or not it is either contigious college property (I looked at Google Maps and couldn't determine that) or if it is in-use by a college at the time. Ergo, Gillette Stadium when BC plays there makes the stadium a "college" while they are there.
Excellent advice from a "common sense" approach to avoiding legal problems and expenses, but..... That being said is there any case law establishing that the temporary use makes a private sector facility rented for the day part of the 'building or grounds of...". Sounds like one of those ambiguous cases that will generally be resolved by legal fees, a CWOF and possible suitability issues.
 
MGL Ch. 260 §10(j): Carrying dangerous weapons; ...

For the purposes of this paragraph, ''firearm'' shall mean any pistol, revolver, rifle or smoothbore arm from which a shot, bullet or pellet can be discharged.​
Whoever, not being a law enforcement officer and notwithstanding any license obtained by the person pursuant to chapter 140, carries on the person a firearm, loaded or unloaded, or other dangerous weapon in any building or on the grounds of any elementary or secondary school, college or university without the written authorization of the board or officer in charge of the elementary or secondary school, college or university shall be punished by a fine of not more than $1,000 or by imprisonment for not more than 2 years or both. A law enforcement officer may arrest without a warrant and detain a person found carrying a firearm in violation of this paragraph.​

(Unfortunately, no criminal model jury instructions for Ch. 269 §10(j).
Maybe someone here will get jacked up and a District Court judge will
compose some for submission to the library).

UMass/Lowell 2020 Annual Security Report
Published in the Year 2021

...​
Message from the Chief of Police​
The UMass Lowell Police Department is a full-service police department with more than 30 sworn officers. Our officers receive municipal police academy training and have full authority to enforce the laws of the Commonwealth. Each officer attends an annual in-service training program as well as a host of specialized training programs. The UMass Lowell Police Department operates 24 hours per day. Besides patrol, we also conduct criminal investigations and provide crime prevention and educational services at the UMass Lowell campus. ...​
Our objective is for you to achieve your educational goals in a safe and secure environment. Additionally, we appreciate the importance of cultural and social growth. Therefore, we provide resources to support activities like performances at the Tsongas Center at UMass Lowell, athletic events, cultural events and other events around campus.​

So UMassPD thinks that even activities like performances at the Tsongas (bands?) are "events around campus".

Does anyone here think the campus cops have received instructions
to nope away from guns on the grounds right up to the
"CEIA PMD2 Plus Elliptic walkthrough metal detectors" that they are so proud of?


Does BU provide campus security to those commercial tenants?
Probably. I worked for BCPD for 6-7 yrs and they responded to issues beyond the campus but in the general neighborhood. College PDs typically work with the town PDs in the greater Boston area from my experience.
Excellent advice from a "common sense" approach to avoiding legal problems and expenses, but..... That being said is there any case law establishing that the temporary use makes a private sector facility rented for the day part of the 'building or grounds of...". Sounds like one of those ambiguous cases that will generally be resolved by legal fees, a CWOF and possible suitability issues.
The Gillette Stadium issue I raised: The BCPD Lt. who was their prosecutor told me that BCPD provided armed security for any BC events at Gillette. I think that if they found someone with a firearm at the event venue, they would prosecute 260-10j. Both of us are now retired and I no longer live in his AO, so that is all that I have.
 
Probably. I worked for BCPD for 6-7 yrs and they responded to issues beyond the campus but in the general neighborhood. College PDs typically work with the town PDs in the greater Boston area from my experience.
I meant: "If you rent commercial space from BU, are you entitled to BUPD protection?".
(Or for that matter, does BU force it on you?)
As a vague scenario, in the case of a multi-tenant office building,
would BUPD doorknob rattle all of the offices at night
the way they might in a non-open-plan college office?
Or would they nope away from the whole issue?
 
I meant: "If you rent commercial space from BU, are you entitled to BUPD protection?".
(Or for that matter, does BU force it on you?)
As a vague scenario, in the case of a multi-tenant office building,
would BUPD doorknob rattle all of the offices at night
the way they might in a non-open-plan college office?
Or would they nope away from the whole issue?
No they wouldn't do door checks on commercial property but if something goes down that they know about (direct call or hear on the scanner) they will respond.

One night while I was working at BCPD, I heard them dispatch officers to a residential building off-campus (not school property) upon a report of someone who decided to fly or jump off the 2nd story porch onto the ground below. BCPD was first on the scene. BCPD trained their officers very well and very often (firearms training monthly at Sharon F&G) including all sorts of scenarios in a dorm or two each Summer when they weren't occupied.
 
At the Boston musical festival security was incredibly lax. They had some new style scanners but I'm not sure what they actually did. They only stopped you if you had a big bag.
 
No they wouldn't do door checks on commercial property but if something goes down that they know about (direct call or hear on the scanner) they will respond.

One night while I was working at BCPD, I heard them dispatch officers to a residential building off-campus (not school property) upon a report of someone who decided to fly or jump off the 2nd story porch onto the ground below. BCPD was first on the scene. BCPD trained their officers very well and very often (firearms training monthly at Sharon F&G) including all sorts of scenarios in a dorm or two each Summer when they weren't occupied.
 
I used to do armed and unarmed security part time. Several years ago I picked a one day gig at the Crane Estate for a classic music concert. They paid for security to wand everyone entering. Never worked with any of the other guys no clue to their background. I had just finished teaching a basic safety firearm class so I arrived with lots of guns in the car, and I kept my EDC in my pocket.
The guy that hired us does a quick lesson on how to use the wand, who does he pick to be the guinea pig? Yep, I light the wand up like a fire siren, he goes "put that in your car, they don't want any weapons here!" I was the only one that set the wand off all night. Classical music fans are not the rowdy group they want you to think they are.
It was a fun gig but my my back was killing me at the end wading people for a couple of hours, I was in my late 50's than, at 64 I would not do that again.
 
Evwry time the mach
The last time I served on a jury we all had to go thru the metal detectors and my knee replacement always set them off. I was on a jury for 7 days and after the first day they always just waved me thru with no lines or checks !
Every time the machine goes off, someone probably had to file a report. Most security points Ive worked with it was up to the folk running it to bypass anyone they choose.

Along lines, there's a bunch of new fangled tower scanners out there which are pretty cool tech. All in one facial recognition, body temp infared, pressure plate weight and gait analysis and metal shape detection. They are good enough to detect the difference between a Leatherman and a wrench and super fast.

AWS used them at ReInvent. The event staff (private company)'s cpo
 
Good explanation.

Funny thing about the detectors in China. I've dressed in clothes with ZERO metal- no zippers, buttons, rivets, not even tiny metal grommets for shoe laces etc.; yet somehow manage to set off the detectors. LOL I think someone is pressing a button to make sure I get the pat down. I started choosing security lanes based on which one has the cute female officers as the pat-downs tend to be a little aggressive. Flying back from Bangalore, I once had no choice but to get the pat-down from a handlebar mustache guy that was pretty much the Indian version of the dudes in the Police Academy 'The Blue Oyster' bar scene...

EYsQSP.gif
Maybe china inspired by Japan?

View: https://youtu.be/Iw4f3mfWmns
 
Last night I went to the Tsongas Arena to attend my Granddaughter's HS graduation. I wasn't sure exactly what the security was going to be like but I knew better than to try and carry in my EDC and my knife so as much as it bothered me I went into the arena without them. Upon entrance I was greeted by your standard metal detectors and arena security. Put your cell phone, keys etc. in a basket and go through the metal detector. This is where I always inform the security person that I am going to set off the alarm because I have a prosthetic leg.

Usual procedure: I go through and set off the alarm. I get pulled aside and given the old magic wand and they look to see if I actually have a prosthetic leg and then they send me on my way.

Last night: I go through and set off the alarm. The guy hands me my basket of stuff and sends me on my way. Please note I was wearing long pants and not shorts so you could not see my prosthetic leg. I walk normal enough where most people don't know I have a prosthetic leg if I don't tell them.

With all the hype on school shootings you think that security, especially in Lowell, would have been on a higher alert. I very well could have had prohibited weapons on me. I don't necessarily agree with all the security BS at different venues but if your going to have metal detectors and screening then do it correctly. If you're going to have cheap help that sucks and can't do their job then save a bunch of money and time and don't have these so called security screenings that don't work.
If you carry your knife perpendicular to the metal detector with it laid out flat way in all likelihood it wouldn’t go off….. Doesnt really make much of a difference since you have a prosthetic.

The sensitivity of the machine probably isn’t that very high
 
Back
Top Bottom