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TWELVE Shots from a .45 and still keeps coming

Sounds like DiMethylSulfOxide ( DMSO )
might have been used ?


Surely a Department of Energy employee was involved……..[popcorn]
 
Last edited:
PaulR said:
This story is over a year old now, sorry if dupe, but I've never seen it.
1) I'm shocked
2) We all need to re-think our stopping power....
Click to expand...
Lol if you've never heard of the phenomenon of what I call "bad guys as bullet tampons" in gun fights with cops or military etc then you should probably do some more research. Its far more frequent phenomenon with handguns vs rifles, obviously.

One of the more chilling ones I ever heard of was one Mas Ayoob (or someone like him?) wrote about. This woman had an abusive BF/husband, she was eventually shot FIVE TIMES with a .45 ACP handgun by him, she ran out of the house and drove herself to the hospital. The hits thankfully for her sake were not in cricical areas, IIRC the worst one she had was a lung
shot, which probably would have killed her if not for prompt medical attention, but it just shows you the myth about stopping power. Apparently when the medical folks were treating her she was lucid and talking to them while sitting and laying down.

The craziest one though has to be that incident where the cop was getting into a running gunfight with some violent druggie guy, cop shot the guy like TWENTY THREE times with a .40 over the space of a few minutes of running, chasing/shooting the guy (with the guy shooting back at him). Eventually the guy was stopped but to say that "it took a while" is an understatement.

While that statistical average is in that "five shots or less" wheelhouse you hear of all the time, its obvious that is just an average. On the ends you have bad guys that are bullet tampons and then you have people stopped or even killed by one shot.
 
I'm not surprised.

Dude's clearly jacked up on drugs, he's like 110% oxygenated with adrenaline to boot.

If you consider him an engine, pumping the gas tank full of holes might remove the fuel from replenishing the engine, but the car's going to run for a little bit on what's already primed in the lines.

Don't take the lines to be blood vessels either, his muscles have power available and as long as his nerves are sending signals to use the fuel it can still be used.
 
drgrant said:
The craziest one though has to be that incident where the cop was getting into a running gunfight with some violent druggie guy, cop shot the guy like TWENTY THREE times with a .40 over the space of a few minutes of running, chasing/shooting the guy (with the guy shooting back at him). Eventually the guy was stopped but to say that "it took a while" is an understatement.
Click to expand...
found it
www.police1.com

Why one cop carries 145 rounds of ammo on the job

Before the call that changed Sergeant Timothy Gramins’ life forever, he typically carried 47 rounds of handgun ammunition on his person while on duty
www.police1.com www.police1.com

He was also shooting 45...
In this free-for-all, the assailant had, in fact, been struck 14 times. Any one of six of these wounds – in the heart, right lung, left lung, liver, diaphragm, and right kidney – could have produced fatal consequences, “in time,” Gramins emphasizes.
Click to expand...
 
I used to work at a place and there was a guy there who had been shot six times and lived. I don't know what type of gun was used. He had a lot of extra padding on him that may have helped him survive but he did end up with a colostomy bag.
 
Goodandtight said:
I used to work at a place and there was a guy there who had been shot six times and lived. I don't know what type of gun was used. He had a lot of extra padding on him that may have helped him survive but he did end up with a colostomy bag.
Click to expand...
That would really suck. Crapping is the high point of my day.
 
There is no "stopping power" with handguns.

I remember when @MachineHead told me stories about drugged up dudes that can barely be held down by half a dozen adults. After that I added a 12ga to my home defense plan - you might not feel any pain from it but you can't keep walking towards me if your bones are shattered by buckshot.
 
Mesatchornug said:
found it
www.police1.com

Why one cop carries 145 rounds of ammo on the job

Before the call that changed Sergeant Timothy Gramins’ life forever, he typically carried 47 rounds of handgun ammunition on his person while on duty
www.police1.com www.police1.com

He was also shooting 45...
Click to expand...

I think these are two different incidents. the one I remember involved a cop engaging in a literal running gunfight with a perp who was trying to get away from him but also shooting at him, etc... the BG took over 20 hits before going down.
 
I have close family that is LEO. Very few incidents of needing to use a firearm in duty. But there are those stories that poke through where you go "but how?" I saw a statistic somewhere (I think it was a reputable source) that 70%+ of all those shot with a handgun live (there was no discussion on round quantity, trauma level, distance etc.). It would appear that rapid loss of blood pressure is what most people describe as "stopping power," and the only effective way to end a mortal threat when it's clear that the experience of pain and trauma isn't enough to act as a deterrent.

Basically, you get someone who is on a drug(s) that jacks up the dopamine and norepinephrine levels, and you have potent recipe for someone whose neuro-chemical signals are hijacked and they can't physiologically interpret a gunshot wound like a normal human.

Then, you get this guy who wasn't on drugs, accidentally shot by the police 16 times and is alive. Man mistakenly shot by police: ‘Sometimes they make mistakes’

I think there's enough evidence across the board to say that handgun trauma is variable, and without the right placement and circumstances, can lack "stopping power."
 
michaelhoughton said:
I have close family that is LEO. Very few incidents of needing to use a firearm in duty. But there are those stories that poke through where you go "but how?" I saw a statistic somewhere (I think it was a reputable source) that 70%+ of all those shot with a handgun live (there was no discussion on round quantity, trauma level, distance etc.). It would appear that rapid loss of blood pressure is what most people describe as "stopping power," and the only effective way to end a mortal threat when it's clear that the experience of pain and trauma isn't enough to act as a deterrent.

Basically, you get someone who is on a drug(s) that jacks up the dopamine and norepinephrine levels, and you have potent recipe for someone whose neuro-chemical signals are hijacked and they can't physiologically interpret a gunshot wound like a normal human.

Then, you get this guy who wasn't on drugs, accidentally shot by the police 16 times and is alive. Man mistakenly shot by police: ‘Sometimes they make mistakes’

I think there's enough evidence across the board to say that handgun trauma is variable, and without the right placement and circumstances, can lack "stopping power."
Click to expand...
Well when your training is to try and save the person after you shoot them... it helps the survival rates
 
jkelly1229 said:
Well when your training is to try and save the person after you shoot them... it helps the survival rates
Click to expand...
I should've clarified: the statistics that gets cited includes all cases, not just those shot by police. I'd imagine those shot by the police probably have a higher fatality rate, but could be wrong. Either way, if you can apply 16 shots to someone and still save a life, it raises eyebrows about "stopping power" nonsense overall.
 
michaelhoughton said:
I should've clarified: the statistics that gets cited includes all cases, not just those shot by police. I'd imagine those shot by the police probably have a higher fatality rate, but could be wrong. Either way, if you can apply 16 shots to someone and still save a life, it raises eyebrows about "stopping power" nonsense overall.
Click to expand...
Stopping power is a myth until you start using medium rifle rounds

Neuro systems are the only thing that shut people off

Unless you hit that the person your shooting will be alive until they bleed out

Better hope shooting them a bunch dissaudes them
 
This is why Jeff Cooper (I think) developed the Mozambique Drill, based upon Mike Rousseau's experience (again ?) in Mozambique

In the infamouse 1986 Miami shootout, I believe that the autopsy Michael Platt showed that while he was shot a dozen times, the shot that killed him was from a .38Spl wound he received early in the fight. Even though it was a fatal hit, he still kept fighting.
 
Anyone remember many years ago about the MA. State Trooper who shot the guy on RT. 128,
the Trooper emptied his 357 into the guy but he kept coming.
 

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