Twitter: Woman Removes full auto M4 from Texas National guard vehicle

[Picton]

The unit that had that range for the day left it behind. It probably belonged to someone who went to sick call or something and nobody took charge of it. I can’t imagine the heads rolling after that.

This kind of thing was always an XO headache on night jumps. SM gets an ankle injury and needs medevac, meaning ALL his sensitive items (and his weapon(s)) need to be handed off to his buddies and accounted for all night, during the field problem, until they could be trucked back to the company the next morning.

I remember a jump in high winds one night on Holland DZ, which nobody ever really used. We had one chalk into a gully and another into some trees: accountability was a NIGHTMARE that night. The medics were busy.

 

[Berkshire Guy]

This is my opinion based on 20 years as an AGR in the National Guard. From what I understand about Operation Lone Star is the Texas National Guard is on state active duty for this mission. Most Guardsmen involved are volunteers (though not all) and there are a lot of very junior and young Soldiers on duty with very little military or life experience. Battle hardened combat vets are few and far between. Moral is low, money is tight being a state funded mission, living conditions are sub standard and leadership/supervision is low quality (the high quality NCO have real jobs on the outside leaving the sucky ones to volunteer for the mission and it’s paycheck). Also they work far from the flagpole so senior oversight is lacking. This incident can’t possibly be an isolated incident, it’s just the one that was found out about.

 

[Tartakovsky]

MG license is a MA thing, not federal. In America, you only need to pay your NFA transfer when you own one

Also, why do you want things to be less free?

I wan't things to be more free, not less. I also want equal and fair application of the law instead of this selective application BS. Didn't know that many states don't require a machine gun license or that it was a MA thing.

 

[Mesatchornug]

I wan't things to be more free, not less. I also want equal and fair application of the law instead of this selective application BS. Didn't know that many states don't require a machine gun license or that it was a MA thing.

Taken generally, your argument is "someone in place X is getting a raw deal, so this person in place Y who did nothing wrong should get a raw deal too."

If you want things to be more free, I beg you to step back. Did she do something wrong? If not, why should she be punished? If she yes, what?

By the evidence we have available, she saw an unsecured firearm, made it secure, and contacted the people responsible for it. Granted, she did this very publicly, in part because she has beef with the Guard, but motive doesn't change the fact that her act is at least justifiable.

How about we don't punish her for doing the right thing, and we don't punish the person in SF who defended himself? Wouldn't that be more freedom?

 

[Tartakovsky]

Taken generally, your argument is "someone in place X is getting a raw deal, so this person in place Y who did nothing wrong should get a raw deal too."

If you want things to be more free, I beg you to step back. Did she do something wrong? If not, why should she be punished? If she yes, what?

By the evidence we have available, she saw an unsecured firearm, made it secure, and contacted the people responsible for it. Granted, she did this very publicly, in part because she has beef with the Guard, but motive doesn't change the fact that her act is at least justifiable.

How about we don't punish her for doing the right thing, and we don't punish the person in SF who defended himself? Wouldn't that be more freedom?

Nope, not my argument at all. Entitled Karen absolutely did something wrong. She entered a government vehicle, and removed government property she wasn't legally permitted to be in possession of. Not just any government property, but a full-auto M4. She may live in a state that doesn't require a license to own a machine gun, but she obtained it illegally. She doesn't get to just remove someone elses' property from someone elses' vehicle. The "it was on my property" defense is weak. Sorry, this isn't tag where you're safe on home plate. Does that mean the police can't stop me for a ticket if I make it into my driveway first? If she had a problem with the vehicle or the contents of the vehicle, she should have called the police to deal with it, period. And no, that doesn't absolve the National Guardsman who left a full auto M4 unsecured and unattended. He needs to get disciplined big time.

 

[Mesatchornug]

Nope, not my argument at all. Entitled Karen absolutely did something wrong. She entered a government vehicle, and removed government property she wasn't legally permitted to be in possession of. Not just any government property, but a full-auto M4. She may live in a state that doesn't require a license to own a machine gun, but she obtained it illegally. She doesn't get to just remove someone elses' property from someone elses' vehicle. The "it was on my property" defense is weak. Sorry, this isn't tag where you're safe on home plate. Does that mean the police can't stop me for a ticket if I make it into my driveway first? If she had a problem with the vehicle or the contents of the vehicle, she should have called the police to deal with it, period. And no, that doesn't absolve the National Guardsman who left a full auto M4 unsecured and unattended. He needs to get disciplined big time.

You really want to sink her here, don't you?

They're trespassing on her property. They're leaving firearms unsecured on her property. They're leaving running automobiles unsupervised on her property. They're in the wrong.

This has nothing to do with escaping the cops when you've done something wrong. But I'm afraid we're not likely to come to agreement here, so I'm going to drop it.

 

[Bt74]

No excuse to violate federal law and not be held accountable like everyone else. She was in possession of a machine gun without a machine gun license. If Karen had a problem with it, she should have called the police. Doesn't give her the right to illegally enter a government vehicle and take the weapon. A guy is being prosecuted for defending himself with a pistol from an attacker armed with a deadly weapon on a subway in San Francisco but Karen gets a pass for illegal possession of a machine gun?

Uh, YOU sound like the Karen here. HOW was she to know it was a machine gun? Oh...and isn't the mantra here "Never call the Man"?

 

[cams]

Nope, not my argument at all. Entitled Karen absolutely did something wrong. She entered a government vehicle, and removed government property she wasn't legally permitted to be in possession of. Not just any government property, but a full-auto M4. She may live in a state that doesn't require a license to own a machine gun, but she obtained it illegally. She doesn't get to just remove someone elses' property from someone elses' vehicle. The "it was on my property" defense is weak. Sorry, this isn't tag where you're safe on home plate. Does that mean the police can't stop me for a ticket if I make it into my driveway first? If she had a problem with the vehicle or the contents of the vehicle, she should have called the police to deal with it, period. And no, that doesn't absolve the National Guardsman who left a full auto M4 unsecured and unattended. He needs to get disciplined big time.

That’s a pretty brow beaten attitude, I’m glad you’re not in charge of statist lawz for landowners in America.

What facts do you have to declare with such certainty that she’s an entitled Karen? She was already armed with her own pistol allegedly while working her own property.

Before we drop a bunch of retarded MA’s felonies on her shouldn’t we get some actual facts on the entirety of the situation, or are we just hanging people now based on a news story and Federally owned firearms being left unattended on private property?

 

[Coda]

Nope, not my argument at all. Entitled Karen absolutely did something wrong. She entered a government vehicle, and removed government property she wasn't legally permitted to be in possession of. Not just any government property, but a full-auto M4. She may live in a state that doesn't require a license to own a machine gun, but she obtained it illegally. She doesn't get to just remove someone elses' property from someone elses' vehicle. The "it was on my property" defense is weak. Sorry, this isn't tag where you're safe on home plate. Does that mean the police can't stop me for a ticket if I make it into my driveway first? If she had a problem with the vehicle or the contents of the vehicle, she should have called the police to deal with it, period. And no, that doesn't absolve the National Guardsman who left a full auto M4 unsecured and unattended. He needs to get disciplined big time.

Pretty much my point, couldn't agree more.

 

[Tartakovsky]

You really want to sink her here, don't you?

They're trespassing on her property. They're leaving firearms unsecured on her property. They're leaving running automobiles unsupervised on her property. They're in the wrong.

This has nothing to do with escaping the cops when you've done something wrong. But I'm afraid we're not likely to come to agreement here, so I'm going to drop it.

What she did was wrong. And then she virtue signaled over it, admitting she committed theft of regulated government property from a government vehicle in the name of the public good. I bet if she took a patrol rifle from a cruiser, the police would totally be OK with it? I get where you are coming from. Agree to disagree.

 

[Tartakovsky]

Uh, YOU sound like the Karen here. HOW was she to know it was a machine gun? Oh...and isn't the mantra here "Never call the Man"?

She ultimately demonstrated via video and photos she knew it was a machine gun. She flipped the selector to auto.

 

[Tartakovsky]

That’s a pretty brow beaten attitude, I’m glad you’re not in charge of statist lawz for landowners in America.

What facts do you have to declare with such certainty that she’s an entitled Karen? She was already armed with her own pistol allegedly while working her own property.

Before we drop a bunch of retarded MA’s felonies on her shouldn’t we get some actual facts on the entirety of the situation, or are we just hanging people now based on a news story and Federally owned firearms being left unattended on private property?

Karen's own tiktok video and photos documenting the incident for starters. Pretty sure removing federal property regulated under NFA from a federal vehicle isn't a "MA thing"

 

[Coda]

Oh...and isn't the mantra here "Never call the Man"?

That's not MY mantra. I have called the "Man" more than once and were glad they responded.

I guess you have been fortunate enough to never have had to call the police, most are not so fortunate.

 

[Bt74]

What she did was wrong. And then she virtue signaled over it, admitting she committed theft of regulated government property from a government vehicle in the name of the public good. I bet if she took a patrol rifle from a cruiser, the police would totally be OK with it? I get where you are coming from. Agree to disagree.

Exactly what Joe Biden would say.

 

[Tartakovsky]

Exactly what Joe Biden would say.

You mean Joe's teleprompter

 

[Coda]

What she did was wrong. And then she virtue signaled over it, admitting she committed theft of regulated government property from a government vehicle in the name of the public good. I bet if she took a patrol rifle from a cruiser, the police would totally be OK with it? I get where you are coming from. Agree to disagree.

Yup, I wonder how that would go if someone in MA removed a "Patrol Rifle" from a MSP vehicle because they wanted to keep things safe?

 

[Bt74]

She ultimately demonstrated via video and photos she knew it was a machine gun. She flipped the selector to auto.

The horror!!!!! Maybe you should Red Flag me for my $600 AK7 from PSA that I can flip the switch on?

 

[Tartakovsky]

The horror!!!!! Maybe you should Red Flag me for my $600 AK7 from PSA that I can flip the switch on?View attachment 632301

Just answering YOUR question. She demonstrated it in her Twatter post.

 

[cams]

I give up, some of you guys must drip when you walk.

 

[pastera]

NFA is infringement, period, so any claim that an auto is different than a semi is moot.
Her actions show she had zero interest in retaining the rifle, only securing it so she stole nothing - she was acting to maintain safety on property she is responsible for.

The guard is in the wrong here.
They trespassed on her land and left a rifle unsecured

Placing any blame on her is BS - she is the victim of a government trespass of her property.

 

[SFC13557]

"Uh, YOU sound like the Karen here. HOW was she to know it was a machine gun? Oh...and isn't the mantra here "Never call the Man"?"

She "secured" an unattended rifle from an unlocked govt. vehicle on her property. She didn't steal anything, she possibly prevented a possible mass shooting or some illegal grabbing the rifle and ambushing the Soldiers when they returned and then potentially assaulting her on her property or in her dwelling is my take. Hopefully we get some follow up on this situation.

 

[GaryO]

Abandoned property from trespassers
I say fair game.

Loser weepy, finder keepy law?

 

[ReggieB9mm]

At least she didn’t use the M4 to shoot the trespassers.

 

[Artifact]

M4's are not full auto, still 3rd burst from my recollection. When a weapon is issued to Soldier from Arms room it's either recorded by butt number painted on butt stock or serial number to specific Soldier. If Joe or Jane left M4 unattended in vehicle they are f***ed, like Dench said the weapon should be attached to your body. REMF's overseas used to forget/leave their weapons in mess hall, we would "secure" them and then give it to my 1SG who would gladly call their 1SG and ask him if one of his troops forgot something in the mess hall. I remember in boot camp I was eating MRE on ground with M16 laying next to me and Drill Sgt. came by tried to grab it while walking by, I just managed to snag sling and he dragged me around for a few seconds before letting it go and kept walking.
I don't see how they could charge woman if she just secured unattended weapon and called authorities. Better she grabbed it rather than a coyote or illegal.

Full auto

 

[Andy in NH]

My first seven years in the Corps I was in units where you had to have your rifle within arm's reach at all times.

Then I transferred to training command where we weren't issued rifles, but we did train units that did and they had the "within arm's reach" rule.

At first, every time a unit leader called for a weapons count, I instinctively and immediately got that sick feeling in my stomach when I realized I wasn't holding a rifle.

Of course, very quickly I came to me senses, but for that brief moment I thought I was in BIG trouble!

Thankfully, after some time at that training command, that reaction diminished.

Good times!

 

[weekendracer]

M4's are not full auto, still 3rd burst from my recollection. When a weapon is issued to Soldier from Arms room it's either recorded by butt number painted on butt stock or serial number to specific Soldier. If Joe or Jane left M4 unattended in vehicle they are f***ed, like Dench said the weapon should be attached to your body. REMF's overseas used to forget/leave their weapons in mess hall, we would "secure" them and then give it to my 1SG who would gladly call their 1SG and ask him if one of his troops forgot something in the mess hall. I remember in boot camp I was eating MRE on ground with M16 laying next to me and Drill Sgt. came by tried to grab it while walking by, I just managed to snag sling and he dragged me around for a few seconds before letting it go and kept walking.
I don't see how they could charge woman if she just secured unattended weapon and called authorities. Better she grabbed it rather than a coyote or illegal.

I'm sure someone can correct me, but I think the A1's and A3's are full auto, I'm not really into it, I just know there is further lettering for various versions of the M4/M16. The burst option was an abortion, within a castration, I can't think of something else as bad as a burst gun.

My M4 was full auto, there was an order for Semi's a while back (2006 or so), but I'm pretty sure those guns are gone. Never saw a burst gun in my old organization that was for duty carry.

 

[Wildcard]

My unit's M4's were all still burst in 2016. Granted I was active duty Air Force.

 

[whacko]

All of you guys debating the burst vs auto on the military m4.....just as I was retiring in 2018 a big modification work order came down to convert the 3 round burst to auto on all the m4 rifles. We were working the plan to get all the rifles to the support shops to start converting them.

 

[Tartakovsky]

NFA is infringement, period, so any claim that an auto is different than a semi is moot.
Her actions show she had zero interest in retaining the rifle, only securing it so she stole nothing - she was acting to maintain safety on property she is responsible for.

The guard is in the wrong here.
They trespassed on her land and left a rifle unsecured

Placing any blame on her is BS - she is the victim of a government trespass of her property.

I agree but NFA has been settled law for 90 years. Until it gets overturned, we still have to abide by it. She still illegally entered a government vehicle and removed a machine gun from it without permission.

 

[pastera]

I agree but NFA has been settled law for 90 years. Until it gets overturned, we still have to abide by it. She still illegally entered a government vehicle and removed a machine gun from it without permission.

Love the "settled law" bullshit - no law is settled. See Dobbs and Bruen. Hint the Sullivan laws that Bruen strikes down were enacted in 1911.

She did not enter a government vehicle illegally. The government trespassed on her land illegally and created an attractive nuisance issue for her, which she resolved by securing the firearm in question. Had she knowingly left the firearm accessible on her land and it had been used to injure someone she would very likely been held accountable, especially if she was a permit holder which would lead on to believe she understood the danger of an unsecured and unattended firearm.

Law is based on a reasonable person's viewpoint. A reasonable jury of her peers (Texans) would likely find that she acted appropriately in the circumstance.

All of this assumes that the story is true that the guardsmen left the firearm unattended - the trespass need not be true to allow her to correct the attractive nuisance issue created by the guard but it does add to her case if they were trespassing.