Ukraine drafting women

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Cripes, is that entire country full of smokeshows?

Yes, it's at least true compared to Americans they take WAY more sincere effort staying fit and dolling themselves up when going out. I visited Odessa summer of 2010 and holy moly the eye candy walking all around. Ukrainian women are pretty forward and definitely not afraid to make it stupidly obvious, if not straight up approaching you if they're interested in you. Obviously not all of them but a goodly number do look close to this -
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iq4PCW4z5hY
 

edmorseiii

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Yes there f***ing is you goddamn sexist misogynist. If you want to have the equal right to vote for the motherf***ers that start these stupid f***ing wars so they can give you the right to abort your tinder hookup f*** trophies you should have a equal stake in bleeding in the wars they create. Maybe if more of these stupid skanks were scared of getting drafted to go fight mah huwhatt supermassists they'd vote on issues other than gender income gape and coat hanger policies.

I support drafting twatwaffen battalions of american infantry on the front lines. It doesnt matter if its dicks or vagina lips going into the meatgrinder, the hamburger coming out the back end all tastes the same.
bigpapi.gif
 
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They want equality, give it to them. If men need to register for the draft women should also. We have woman in combat units per their request, they've graduated from Ranger School so use them.
 
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Yes there f***ing is you goddamn sexist misogynist. If you want to have the equal right to vote for the motherf***ers that start these stupid f***ing wars so they can give you the right to abort your tinder hookup f*** trophies you should have a equal stake in bleeding in the wars they create. Maybe if more of these stupid skanks were scared of getting drafted to go fight mah huwhatt supermassists they'd vote on issues other than gender income gape and coat hanger policies.

I support drafting twatwaffen battalions of american infantry on the front lines. It doesnt matter if its dicks or vagina lips going into the meatgrinder, the hamburger coming out the back end all tastes the same.
Twatwaffen
 

Dench

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In war time putting the correct people in the right spot is pretty important. The US hasnt been in a war against another professional military in some time so it might seem that this have been forgotten.

If you have a pool of people of equal skill and education and the only thing that separates them is a significant size, upper body strength and grip strength it becomes very obvious where to start sorting people.

In fantasy land, sure, we can run 1,000 females through physical tests and cherry pick the anomalies to include them with the men. The soft boys will be culled out anyway, so they aren't an issue. In the meantime, when the shits hitting the fan people leave the clichés and bullshit fantasy baggage at the door and just find the biggest, strongest, meanest people to be infantry and go from there.

The US and even Germans had it pretty much correct in WWII. The able bodied men fought. The women and non able bodied supported. It wasn't until the Germans were out of able bodied people that they turned to kids, the elderly and woman. And if memory serves me correct, that shit didn't go down as something that was good. It was a disgrace that it got that low.

Sure, the Soviets did it here and there. But if the Soviets are using X doctrine, it's safe to say that its a nightmare and should be avoided like most things Stalin era Soviet. They were also quite desperate.

I'd say it's a hard sell for Ukraine unless Russia attempts an entire take over which I think is unlikely. Given how incompetent Ukraine is and how poorly they have prepared over the past near decade I'd say why bother. I spent some time with the Ukrainian army in the Balkans a while ago and bush league would be putting it nicely. I see things haven't changed sadly.
 
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mav

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In war time putting the correct people in the right spot is pretty important. The US hasnt been in a war against another professional military in some time so it might seem that this have been forgotten.

If you have a pool of people of equal skill and education and the only thing that separates them is a significant size, upper body strength and grip strength it becomes very obvious where to start sorting people.

In fantasy land, sure, we can run 1,000 females through physical tests and cherry pick the anomalies to include them with the men. The soft boys will be culled out anyway, so they aren't an issue. In the meantime, when the shits hitting the fan people leave the clichés and bullshit fantasy baggage at the door and just find the biggest, strongest, meanest people to be infantry and go from there.

The US and even Germans had it pretty much correct in WWII. The able bodied men fought. The women and non able bodied supported. It wasn't until the Germans were out of able bodied people that they turned to kids, the elderly and woman. And if memory serves me correct, that shit didn't go down as something that was good. It was a disgrace that it got that low.

Sure, the Soviets did it here and there. But if the Soviets are using X doctrine, it's safe to say that its a nightmare and should be avoided like most things Stalin era Soviet. They were also quite desperate.

I'd say it's a hard sell for Ukraine unless Russia attempts an entire take over which I think is unlikely. Given how incompetent Ukraine is and how poorly they have prepared over the past near decade I'd say why bother. I spent some time with the Ukrainian army in the Balkans a while ago and bush league would be putting it nicely. I see things haven't changed sadly.

Yes and no. At a recent Military Academy Fitness Test, a female candidate had the top score. You don't need upper body strength to pull a trigger, as a number of countries' militaries have found out. Israel has had success with females in sniper roles due to "their ability to focus" more than the typical 18-20yo male. Same goes for intelligence gathering. Supposedly only about 20% of female candidates who choose Infantry roles when drafted pass. My guess is those are mentally tough and physically fit/strong females. If they choose it and pass, let them. Otherwise, I agree... find a support role in the rear to free up more male fighters.
 

edmorseiii

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In fantasy land, sure, we can run 1,000 females through physical tests and cherry pick the anomalies to include them with the men. The soft boys will be culled out anyway, so they aren't an issue. In the meantime, when the shits hitting the fan people leave the clichés and bullshit fantasy baggage at the door and just find the biggest, strongest, meanest people to be infantry and go from there.
We probably threw out most of them over the vax. It's cool tho, I saw a rikrok of some female soldiers dancing, I am sure they will beat the Russians.
 

Sammy

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The US and even Germans had it pretty much correct in WWII. The able bodied men fought. The women and non able bodied supported. It wasn't until the Germans were out of able bodied people that they turned to kids, the elderly and woman. And if memory serves me correct, that shit didn't go down as something that was good. It was a disgrace that it got that low.
You are missing a VERY large part of the WW2 experience: the Russians. For the US and Germany, WW2 in many was a continuation of doctrines created in WW1 when it comes to men and women in the armed forces. Russia, on the other hand, was able to bring women into positions where hand-to-hand combat was not required. Soviets have discovered that women are excellent in roles that require a high level of concentration and monotony. Bomber pilots and snipers are two examples where continuous mental focus is essential. Women were also excellent at intelligence gathering.

This is why today, more than 50% of Israel's intelligence force is women. This is why the staff of the world-famous IDF Sniper School, responsible for training pretty much every European NATO forces, is over 70% women instructors!
US's resistance to allowing women into armed forces or dumb push by the "women are as strong as men" feminists to put women into fighting units like Navy Seals, are bound to fail! We need to learn from our partners! Women are superb pilots, snipers, and intelligence officers. We should promote THAT and not some fufu "girls can be Green Berets" bullshit.
 

Dench

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Yes and no. At a recent Military Academy Fitness Test, a female candidate had the top score. You don't need upper body strength to pull a trigger, as a number of countries' militaries have found out. Israel has had success with females in sniper roles due to "their ability to focus" more than the typical 18-20yo male. Same goes for intelligence gathering. Supposedly only about 20% of female candidates who choose Infantry roles when drafted pass. My guess is those are mentally tough and physically fit/strong females. If they choose it and pass, let them. Otherwise, I agree... find a support role in the rear to free up more male fighters.
You need upper body strength to move heavy shit without exhaustion. Or to beat someone to death with hands or an object. Etc.

I've been in the military. I was rarely impressed with female physical power. Intelligence? All the time.

I was in the fire service and EMS. Replace rarely with never. Again females were incredibly intelligent.

Now rolling around in martial arts as I age, its the same exact thing. I've never been defeated by a female in sparring. Some of the ones who are significantly more skilled than I have come very close. But everytime I can claw my ass out. Again, the woman are incredibly smart and in this case technically more skilled often times. I have no doubt I will get caught and the fact that I haven't is probably luck at this point, but it goes with the trend I've seen since puberty.

Exceptions exist. However you don't make doctrine and set up logistics around exceptions. You can, but its a waste of resources for no other reason than equality which has no need or place in a line unit.

What is the military academy fitness test?
 

Dench

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You are missing a VERY large part of the WW2 experience: the Russians. For the US and Germany, WW2 in many was a continuation of doctrines created in WW1 when it comes to men and women in the armed forces. Russia, on the other hand, was able to bring women into positions where hand-to-hand combat was not required. Soviets have discovered that women are excellent in roles that require a high level of concentration and monotony. Bomber pilots and snipers are two examples where continuous mental focus is essential. Women were also excellent at intelligence gathering.

This is why today, more than 50% of Israel's intelligence force is women. This is why the staff of the world-famous IDF Sniper School, responsible for training pretty much every European NATO forces, is over 70% women instructors!
US's resistance to allowing women into armed forces or dumb push by the "women are as strong as men" feminists to put women into fighting units like Navy Seals, are bound to fail! We need to learn from our partners! Women are superb pilots, snipers, and intelligence officers. We should promote THAT and not some fufu "girls can be Green Berets" bullshit.
I completely agree that woman have many things in their tool kits that make them superior in many tasks over men. Especially young women vs young men. Attention to detail, maturity and discipline is probably going to be higher on the young woman's side compared to the men. I know when I was in and in my late teens and early 20's we were a bunch of crazy people who could be trusted with nothing. [rofl] My company was like a frat house on a good day.

Shooting instruction? 100% agree. Perfect example. Requires a lot of patience and attention to detail. Flying? Sure. Same thing. Especially a bomber, which is attention to detail out the ass plus mindlessly boring.

Things that involve high risk of running into someone bigger and stronger? I keep it simple. I say bring your biggest and strongest to go deal with their biggest and strongest.

The CCP learned this back in the Cold War against the Soviet boarder guards. The Soviets would regularly get into physical fights with their Chinese counterparts. The average Han Chinese guy is at a big disadvantage as they are physically much smaller than the average Russian. So what to do? The CCP started to intentionally send Han Chinese who were skilled brawlers to work this notorious section of the border where they f***ed around with each other. The report I had read said the CCP had rounded up drafted bouncers from Shanghai to be the replacements. And take a wild guess what happened to the Soviet tough guys when they ran into people who are the same size who fight for a living [rofl]

I don't think many people know this, but the majority of military personal is not in a combat role. Something like ~50% of Vietnam vets either were in combat, exposed to the risk of combat or provided close support. This is out of a few million people. So the need to have people in support roles is incredibly important. Put the tough guys directly into the shit, and the smart and smaller people in the back running the machine.

Again, and obviously, there are exceptions. But I strain to think of classic military doctrine where exceptions were catered to for social reasons. In todays military? If you have eczema you can't join. But if you want to cut your dick off and be on hormone therapy forever it's ok. The future is here!
 

edmorseiii

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If you have eczema you can't join. But if you want to cut your dick off and be on hormone therapy forever it's ok. The future is here!
Yeah, but homeboy can probably make a fire 15 second dance video, isn't that what matters now a days?
 

mav

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You need upper body strength to move heavy shit without exhaustion. Or to beat someone to death with hands or an object. Etc.

I've been in the military. I was rarely impressed with female physical power. Intelligence? All the time.

I was in the fire service and EMS. Replace rarely with never. Again females were incredibly intelligent.

Now rolling around in martial arts as I age, its the same exact thing. I've never been defeated by a female in sparring. Some of the ones who are significantly more skilled than I have come very close. But everytime I can claw my ass out. Again, the woman are incredibly smart and in this case technically more skilled often times. I have no doubt I will get caught and the fact that I haven't is probably luck at this point, but it goes with the trend I've seen since puberty.

Exceptions exist. However you don't make doctrine and set up logistics around exceptions. You can, but its a waste of resources for no other reason than equality which has no need or place in a line unit.

What is the military academy fitness test?

I'm not disagreeing with anything you say regarding upper body strength, just there are plenty of females that have the fitness/endurance to excel. Hand to hand combat is an exceptional case and unless a special forces operative, almost a non-issue even in the combat arms for regular soldiers and barely trained. I think we spent a total of one day in a training cycle in Basic covering hand-to-hand. Afghanistan showed most combat happened at distances of 500-1000km. Even urban/MOUT combat in Iraq didn't devolve into hand-to-hand. Again, real life examples are out there in Israel. Recon units and sniper support females or mixed unites seem to excel.

The Academy fitness test is:
kneeling basketball throw, pull ups, shuttle run (30 ft legs, 120ft total), sit ups, push ups, 1 mile run. Each event except the 1 mile is 2 minutes long, with 3 minutes of rest in between. The mile run has an 8 minute rest interval before it. It is scored out of a total of 100 points between the 6 events with pull ups and the 1 mile run being heavily weighted.

Because of the number of events and the overall lack of rest, it is a tougher overall test than the typical APFT.
 

Dench

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I'm not disagreeing with anything you say regarding upper body strength, just there are plenty of females that have the fitness/endurance to excel. Hand to hand combat is an exceptional case and unless a special forces operative, almost a non-issue even in the combat arms for regular soldiers and barely trained. I think we spent a total of one day in a training cycle in Basic covering hand-to-hand. Afghanistan showed most combat happened at distances of 500-1000km. Even urban/MOUT combat in Iraq didn't devolve into hand-to-hand. Again, real life examples are out there in Israel. Recon units and sniper support females or mixed unites seem to excel.

The Academy fitness test is:
kneeling basketball throw, pull ups, shuttle run (30 ft legs, 120ft total), sit ups, push ups, 1 mile run. Each event except the 1 mile is 2 minutes long, with 3 minutes of rest in between. The mile run has an 8 minute rest interval before it. It is scored out of a total of 100 points between the 6 events with pull ups and the 1 mile run being heavily weighted.

Because of the number of events and the overall lack of rest, it is a tougher overall test than the typical APFT.

Let's put aside all hand to hand combat. I was never in hand to hand combat. So I shouldn't speak about it. And I certainly have never seen a woman in it either.

So let's talk about what really goes on with the upper body / grip strength differences.

Take a M240. 25lbs. A complete f***ing pain in the ass to carry around. For anyone whose not done it, go grab a 30lbs weight (because we need to include ammo) and go for a mile walk with it. let me know how that feels [rofl] Do woman carry these when we see them out and about? No. At least I've never seen it. Do woman carry smaller systems like SAWs? Havent seen it, but I'd hope so.

I had a MK.19. Who do you think is carrying around that ammo to where it needs to go? SPC Dench. Who do you think has to deal with the f***ing million pound tripod? SPC Dench. Who do you think has to put all that shit together? SPC Dench. I say me, because my A gunner was a female. And don't get me wrong, she was a better soldier than me. But she was no where near as strong as I was. And I was certainly nothing incredible although I was on the high/max end for the old irrelevant PT test.

Need to put up an asinine antenna? Guess whose lugging all that shit around? The guys. Need to move a million waterbottle bundles off a truck? The girls will help, but we both know whose going to move more.

This has nothing to do with the woman being lazy. It has everything to do with my body having a few hundred thousand years of evolutionary pressure to be better at certain things. Men are designed to fight other men, kill animals and move heavy shit. Woman are designed to nurture (attention to detail, empathy), forage (patience, attention to detail, situational awareness), etc.

No doubt that theres overlap. But at the end this is how it boils out at the end. Theres a reason why we separate sports by gender. And the only people who don't like that are ones who pretend physical gender isnt a thing.


Let me post a study. This study has to do with grip strength. We can continue to skip hand to hand combat, and focus on moving heavy stuff. Ammo cans, big weapons, supplies, etc.
Mean maximal hand-grip strength showed the expected clear difference between men (541 N) and women (329 N). Less expected was the gender related distribution of hand-grip strength: 90% of females produced less force than 95% of males. Though female athletes were significantly stronger (444 N) than their untrained female counterparts, this value corresponded to only the 25th percentile of the male subjects.
That should serve as an eye opener. I see it every night in BJJ. Saw it for years in the army and saw it longer in fire/ems. Your wife isnt asking you to open the jar because shes lazy. Shes asking you because her hands are statistically vastly inferior. Hands are pretty important to all things military, so why put weak ones up front? And why make complicated systems to support exceptions?


send me the scoring for that PT test if you can
 
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mav

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Let's put aside all hand to hand combat. I was never in hand to hand combat. So I shouldn't speak about it. And I certainly have never seen a woman in it either.

So let's talk about what really goes on with the upper body / grip strength differences.

Take a M240. 25lbs. A complete f***ing pain in the ass to carry around. For anyone whose not done it, go grab a 30lbs weight (because we need to include ammo) and go for a mile walk with it. let me know how that feels [rofl] Do woman carry these when we see them out and about? No. At least I've never seen it. Do woman carry smaller systems like SAWs? Havent seen it, but I'd hope so.

I had a MK.19. Who do you think is carrying around that ammo to where it needs to go? SPC Dench. Who do you think has to deal with the f***ing million pound tripod? SPC Dench. Who do you think has to put all that shit together? SPC Dench. I say me, because my A gunner was a female. And don't get me wrong, she was a better soldier than me. But she was no where near as strong as I was. And I was certainly nothing incredible although I was on the high/max end for the old irrelevant PT test.

Need to put up an asinine antenna? Guess whose lugging all that shit around? The guys. Need to move a million waterbottle bundles off a truck? The girls will help, but we both know whose going to move more.

This has nothing to do with the woman being lazy. It has everything to do with my body having a few hundred thousand years of evolutionary pressure to be better at certain things. Men are designed to fight other men, kill animals and move heavy shit. Woman are designed to nurture (attention to detail, empathy), forage (patience, attention to detail, situational awareness), etc.

No doubt that theres overlap. But at the end this is how it boils out at the end. Theres a reason why we separate sports by gender. And the only people who don't like that are ones who pretend physical gender isnt a thing.


Let me post a study. This study has to do with grip strength. We can continue to skip hand to hand combat, and focus on moving heavy stuff. Ammo cans, big weapons, supplies, etc.

That should serve as an eye opener. I see it every night in BJJ. Saw it for years in the army and saw it longer in fire/ems. Your wife isnt asking you to open the jar because shes lazy. Shes asking you because her hands are statistically vastly inferior. Hands are pretty important to all things military, so why put weak ones up front? And why make complicated systems to support exceptions?


send me the scoring for that PT test if you can

I hear you. I carried an M60, M240, and an M249 at various points in my enlistment. Firing them was almost worth carrying them, almost. I was lucky to never have to carry a MK19 or M2 as they were always vehicle mounted for my unit. Was a mule for a TOW system a few times at NTC though. Never understood the thought process of infantry with TOW in the desert. Mount the damn thing to a Humvee or M113 or even a Toyota/technical and have at it. Instead, we got to hump pieces of a tripod mounted TOW into the smallish mountains overlooking the desert floor as OPFOR. In hindsight, we were really playing the role of the Taliban.

I don't have the scoring for the academy test as it's "top secret". Not really, but not publicly available. I think there might be a website/app or two that simulates your score, but they may be pay-to-play. The max scores are available though, keeping in mind this is likely for 18-22 given the usual ages of academy candidates: The Candidate Fitness Assessment

Maximum Performance Scores by Event and Gender:​

B-Ball ThrowPull-UpsShuttle RunCrunchesPush-Ups1-Mile
Male102187.895755:20
Female6678.695506:00
 
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