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US Supreme Court OT 2019
- Thread starter Comm2A
- Start date
CrackPot
NES Member
infringe, infringe, fight, fight, infringe, oops you might beat us in court and get good case law, change law/rule/statue, case moot, hahaha we can go back to infringing now, infringe, infringe
Not totally unexpected or unreasonable. They were very happy to kick this can out of a presidential election year. Look for them to grant cert in at least one pending petition.
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VetteGirlMA
NES Member
Nice to know that our civil liberties are completely dependent on election cycles.
In the long run, this might be a better outcome. The court will hopefully take a better, more far reaching petition from their pending stake and they'll issue that opinion next term after the presidential election. That could be a lot better than winning NYSRPA now, having the other petitions GVR'd (giving the lower courts another chance to F them over) and making gun more of a central issue in November.
I know we all want to 'save every puppy in the shelter', but sometimes the timing has to be right to get what you really want.
I know we all want to 'save every puppy in the shelter', but sometimes the timing has to be right to get what you really want.
MaverickNH
NES Member
While I was hoping it wouldn’t be mooted, I’m less surprised than had it not be mooted. Looking forward to analysis from Volokh and others.
This will most likely embolden NYC/NY to all but moot the changes they enacted to result in this mooting.
This will most likely embolden NYC/NY to all but moot the changes they enacted to result in this mooting.
We've been working on the 'Long Run' for quite a long time..... I'd kinda like one to affirm this civil and constitution right in the short run.
Yes I agree. There is no long run victory that I see for gun owners. There are just a successive number of skirmishes and battles and the pro2A side seems to lose everyone one. We consider it a victory if we beat the other side back to an earlier status quo after years of civil rights infringement, or get a minor improvement in new proposed law. I’ve been at the shooting game for a while, and in the last 60 years (1960 till now) I am hard pressed to think of one thing that improved in the Northeast. ( New England plus NY, NJ and PA). Even when the anti’s lose they win. In this NYC case they infringed rights for years if not decades. When a case gets to Supreme Court NYC says oops never mind. NYC Walks away unscathed and already has another vague law on books.
It will be the same with Heil Healy’s edict on AWB. The best possible outcome is a return to prior interpretation after 5 or 6 years of the fake law being the law of the land, and it is a low probability that we get best case outcome.
All the protests in Virginia only got them a slightly less onerous set of new regulations. They still got screwed and it’s never going back.
So keep up the good fight, but just realize that this is the best it will be, and it’s only going to get worse going forward.
I'm just focused on Northern New England, and I'd say statewide preemption in NH (2003 for firearms, 2010 for knives) was a big win, as was getting constitutional carry in Maine (2015) & New Hampshire (2017). Oh, and suppressor laws, including changes in PA,VT,ME,NH.
CatSnoutSoup
NES Member
Clearly the universal wish is that they will now turn and take up a more impactful case. The likelihood of them doing so is beyond my guess, the level of uncertainty in our society currently really is unnerving.
I would have to believe there is little incentive for the status quo end of the bench to take up a case, unless they honestly are upset on principle with the lower courts not applying 'Heller'.
But yeah, nobody seems particularly surprised by this dismissal as moot.
gunowners.org
I would have to believe there is little incentive for the status quo end of the bench to take up a case, unless they honestly are upset on principle with the lower courts not applying 'Heller'.
But yeah, nobody seems particularly surprised by this dismissal as moot.
Pratt, Heller React to SCOTUS’ Decision on NYSRPA v. New York, Alito’s Dissent | GOA
April 27, 2020 For immediate release Pratt, Heller React to SCOTUS’ Decision on NYSRPA v. New York, Alito’s Dissent Springfield, VA – Gun Owners of America (GOA) and Gun Owners Foundation (GOF) today reacted to the Supreme Court’s determination that the NYSRPA v. New York case was moot. The...
gunowners.org
knucklehead
NES Member
Time to pin some hopes and dreams on them hearing the Worman case then.
Mark Pennak at Maryland Shall Issue had this assessment:
But I also think the court could take one issue (carry) and deny the others, saving those issues for another day.
This extra time gives us the opportunity for better 2A decisions in OT2020. It also makes the Second Amendment and guns less of an issue in the 2020 election cycle which I think is a very good thing.
This is a very efficient (but perhaps hopeful) take on how the court could 'clear the decks' of 2A cases. I have a lot of respect for Mark's opinions. He's a retired appellate attorney for the US DOJ and runs a really solid organization.
But I also think the court could take one issue (carry) and deny the others, saving those issues for another day.
Brown didn't stop states from enforcing segregation and Roe didn't stop states from trying to outlaw abortion. The court needs material to work with and that material typically comes from years of litigation in the lower courts. They can't just sua sponte their views into law like the SJC does. I don't think that in 2008 and 2010 that anyone on the court or anywhere else expected the lower courts to mis-interpret Heller they way they have.
This extra time gives us the opportunity for better 2A decisions in OT2020. It also makes the Second Amendment and guns less of an issue in the 2020 election cycle which I think is a very good thing.
So, in the aftermath of yesterday's ruling, six 2A cases previously on the shadow docket have been circulated for Friday's conference. Which case, if any, is the smart money on for granting cert?
CatSnoutSoup
NES Member
Can't play the game without a scorecard...
After ruling in New York gun rights case, more Second Amendment cases set for Friday conference - SCOTUSblog
Yesterday the Supreme Court issued its long-awaited decision in a challenge to New York City’s ban on the transport of licensed handguns outside the city. Because the city had repealed the ban last summer, a majority on the court agreed with the city that the challengers’ original claims are moot –
www.scotusblog.com
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I think so. It would be great if NY shot itself in the foot by trying to moot NYSRPA.
I get it and appreciate the work of folks like you, Comm2A, SAF, etc. Just a wee bit impatient.
Yup, you get it. Right is better than fast. The only real exception to this is same-sex marriage. That's a big anomaly and (I think) reflects how society has quickly changed on that issue. I'm happy for that. I just wish society would change their views about guns as quickly.I get it and appreciate the work of folks like you, Comm2A, SAF, etc. Just a wee bit impatient.
hv55maxx
NES Member
Viewing all those cases and their questions, it seems the most common theme is "outside the home" in a licensing and carry perspective. The cynical part of me has doubts, but i hope the second theme of all 10 of those cases ("in common use") rears its head. It would be nice to tie those loose ends up for us in one ruling.
ETA: the 10 cases being from the ScotusBlog link above
ETA: the 10 cases being from the ScotusBlog link above
Yesterday, petitioners in Rogers filed a supplemental brief. The Questions Presented in Rogers and identical to those in Gould (v. Boston & Brookline) Note that Paul Clement is now representing petitioners - that's huge. The smart money has the Supremes granting cert here and it's what I hope they do.
knucklehead
NES Member
What are the chances of them picking up two 2A cases? Rogers and Woman???
xtry51
NES Member
While I applaud all the hard work. There is a 0% chance SCOTUS takes this case and overthrows NJ licensing structure becuase it would essentially destroy all non-shall issue licensing laws.
They won't take it for the same reasons they'll never strike down an AWB. They don't want to be the ones to destroy liberals dreams.
CatSnoutSoup
NES Member
Am I correct that this is solely a licensing case, there is no “in common use” possession aspect to it? If so, while a favorable ruling would surely be a very good thing vis-à-vis “suitability” in MA, it would not have any impact on the questions in Worman v. Healey, correct?
Rogers, Gould, Malpasso and a few others are carry cases, i.e 'out side the home'. They hypothetically could have an impact on Worman, Mance and a few others. If the court gets more specific about how lower courts should apply heightened scrutiny, they might remand Worman 'in light of......'. The district court would then get another crack at upholding the AWB.Am I correct that this is solely a licensing case, there is no “in common use” possession aspect to it? If so, while a favorable ruling would surely be a very good thing vis-à-vis “suitability” in MA, it would not have any impact on the questions in Worman v. Healey, correct?
