Vehicle stop. Courtesy? Yes? No? Hell no?

[PeterGV]

They removed my entire large intestine, removed my colon and sewed my anus shut. So I'll be pooping in a bag for the rest of my life

I guess you could hand him your bag out the window?

Look, I'll be happy to take the unpopular position here: As a courtesy, and for YOUR safety, you should always tell the cop. "Officer, to avoid any potential misunderstandings, I have a pistol permit and I AM wearing it. How would you like to proceed?"

Courtesy: Telling the cop shows you're cooperative and a good guy. Bad guys rarely have an LTC, and almost never tell cops they're carrying. Score one for you.

Your safety: You move, you stretch, you get out of the vehicle... somehow the cop spots the gun... things can get tense quickly. Telling the cop in advance avoids any such issue.

I've been stopped several times while carrying. Every time, I've had a very positive response from the officer. I've sometime been thanked for the courtesy. One time the cop said to me "OK. Just keep your hands in view, please. You're not going to shoot me, are you? Good!" I have never been been given a ticket after informing the officer I'm carrying. Had a MA state cop tell me "I carry off duty too."

Not every cop is a douchebag. Give respect, get respect.

OK... let the talk about jackbooted thugs dragging you out of your car to give you a cavity search with a toilet plunger, just before shooting your dog for "officer safety", now resume its natural NES course.

(If you have your dog in your car when you're stopped, all bets are off )

 

[Zeo]

I guess you could hand him your bag out the window?

Look, I'll be happy to take the unpopular position here: As a courtesy, and for YOUR safety, you should always tell the cop. "Officer, to avoid any potential misunderstandings, I have a pistol permit and I AM wearing it. How would you like to proceed?"

Courtesy: Telling the cop shows you're cooperative and a good guy. Bad guys rarely have an LTC, and almost never tell cops they're carrying. Score one for you.

Your safety: You move, you stretch, you get out of the vehicle... somehow the cop spots the gun... things can get tense quickly. Telling the cop in advance avoids any such issue.

I've been stopped several times while carrying. Every time, I've had a very positive response from the officer. I've sometime been thanked for the courtesy. One time the cop said to me "OK. Just keep your hands in view, please. You're not going to shoot me, are you? Good!" I have never been been given a ticket after informing the officer I'm carrying. Had a MA state cop tell me "I carry off duty too."

Not every cop is a douchebag. Give respect, get respect.

OK... let the talk about jackbooted thugs dragging you out of your car to give you a cavity search with a toilet plunger, just before shooting your dog for "officer safety", now resume its natural NES course.

(If you have your dog in your car when you're stopped, all bets are off )

NOT telling the COP you have a LTC is being "dis-respectful"?

You HAVE READ the opinions on HERE from some COPS, right ? many say "they dont want to know squat-else if it doesn't pertain to the reason for the stop".

Maybe they should make it the "law"to INFORM.. yes ?

Do you also show them your High School Diploma and college certificates ?
How about your participation certificate for volunteering at the local church ?

 

[bigblue]

I guess you could hand him your bag out the window?

Look, I'll be happy to take the unpopular position here: As a courtesy, and for YOUR safety, you should always tell the cop. "Officer, to avoid any potential misunderstandings, I have a pistol permit and I AM wearing it. How would you like to proceed?"

Courtesy: Telling the cop shows you're cooperative and a good guy. Bad guys rarely have an LTC, and almost never tell cops they're carrying. Score one for you.

Your safety: You move, you stretch, you get out of the vehicle... somehow the cop spots the gun... things can get tense quickly. Telling the cop in advance avoids any such issue.

I've been stopped several times while carrying. Every time, I've had a very positive response from the officer. I've sometime been thanked for the courtesy. One time the cop said to me "OK. Just keep your hands in view, please. You're not going to shoot me, are you? Good!" I have never been been given a ticket after informing the officer I'm carrying. Had a MA state cop tell me "I carry off duty too."

Not every cop is a douchebag. Give respect, get respect.

OK... let the talk about jackbooted thugs dragging you out of your car to give you a cavity search with a toilet plunger, just before shooting your dog for "officer safety", now resume its natural NES course.

(If you have your dog in your car when you're stopped, all bets are off )

You should really announce that you have an LTC and are legally carrying a gun every time you walk into a building, get on a bus, or cross the street. Its about respect and telling people that you are a good guy.

 

[Zeo]

You should really announce that you have an LTC and are legally carrying a gun every time you walk into a building, get on a bus, or cross the street. Its about respect and telling people that you are a good guy.

 

[bigblue]

Hell, let's just do away with all pretense: You should open carry at all times so that everyone can be safely informed that you are a good guy.

 

[jhblaze1]

I guess you could hand him your bag out the window?

Look, I'll be happy to take the unpopular position here: As a courtesy, and for YOUR safety, you should always tell the cop. "Officer, to avoid any potential misunderstandings, I have a pistol permit and I AM wearing it. How would you like to proceed?"

Courtesy: Telling the cop shows you're cooperative and a good guy. Bad guys rarely have an LTC, and almost never tell cops they're carrying. Score one for you.

Your safety: You move, you stretch, you get out of the vehicle... somehow the cop spots the gun... things can get tense quickly. Telling the cop in advance avoids any such issue.

I've been stopped several times while carrying. Every time, I've had a very positive response from the officer. I've sometime been thanked for the courtesy. One time the cop said to me "OK. Just keep your hands in view, please. You're not going to shoot me, are you? Good!" I have never been been given a ticket after informing the officer I'm carrying. Had a MA state cop tell me "I carry off duty too."

Not every cop is a douchebag. Give respect, get respect.

OK... let the talk about jackbooted thugs dragging you out of your car to give you a cavity search with a toilet plunger, just before shooting your dog for "officer safety", now resume its natural NES course.

(If you have your dog in your car when you're stopped, all bets are off )

NO.


Good little sheep

 

[namedpipes]

I guess you could hand him your bag out the window?

Look, I'll be happy to take the unpopular position here: As a courtesy, and for YOUR safety, you should always tell the cop. "Officer, to avoid any potential misunderstandings, I have a pistol permit and I AM wearing it. How would you like to proceed?" ...

I've only been stopped a couple times in recent years, once for an expired inspection sticker and once for speeding.

I simply respond to his inquiries. He'll ask for the driver's license. I'll say it's in my wallet in my right rear pocket, wait a moment and take it out. On my small sampling I haven't encountered any knuckleheads that ask me why I'm telling them that.

The speeding "infraction" he simply gave me a warning. The inspection sticker he didn't cite me for that but did cite me for not having the reg there. I never did find the damned thing. (it was registered, I just rarely drove that car and never noticed the sticker).

 

[jhblaze1]

I've only been stopped a couple times in recent years, once for an expired inspection sticker and once for speeding.

I simply respond to his inquiries. He'll ask for the driver's license. I'll say it's in my wallet in my right rear pocket, wait a moment and take it out. On my small sampling I haven't encountered any knuckleheads that ask me why I'm telling them that.

The speeding "infraction" he simply gave me a warning. The inspection sticker he didn't cite me for that but did cite me for not having the reg there. I never did find the damned thing. (it was registered, I just rarely drove that car and never noticed the sticker).

it's retarded that you even have to show the reg. They know when they run your plate if your reg is good or not. That's they'll jam you up for not having the piece of paper is totally non-binary-gender-queer-trans-cis-pansexual.

 

[namedpipes]

it's retarded that you even have to show the reg. They know when they run your plate if your reg is good or not. That's they'll jam you up for not having the piece of paper is totally non-binary-gender-queer-trans-cis-pansexual.

I agree, but then and there isn't really the place to safely explain that

It was the BPD running a mass production revenue enhancement program near Faneuil Hall. They were going to cite me for SOMETHING. IIRC it was $50 or so.

 

[drgrant]

Your safety: You move, you stretch, you get out of the vehicle... somehow the cop spots the gun... things can get tense quickly. Telling the cop in advance avoids any such issue.

Sometimes telling the cop can "make things get tense quickly". You've just turned a traffic stop regarding something stupid and benign into a discussion about you carrying a gun. There are a few dumbass cops out there not accustomed to, or just simply don't like the idea of mere peons carrying firearms. Then they start doing ****y irrational things like disarming you (while sweeping you with your own, loaded handgun) and other bullshit like that. No thanks. I'm going to opt out of that whenever I can.

If you have to get out of the car being asked by a LEO, that's a whole other ballgame, frankly, and that is NOT a typical traffic stop. That's not what we're talking about here- and I don't think anyone disputes that you might want to notify in what I would consider an extraordinary circumstance. I've been stopped more than probably about half the people on NES, and I've only ever been asked to get out of the car twice, and the 2nd time it was because the cop was being cool and wanted to show me something on his MDT regarding my record. The average driver is never going to get asked to get out of their car unless you just had an accident or something extraordinary like that.

-Mike

 

[drgrant]

it's retarded that you even have to show the reg. They know when they run your plate if your reg is good or not. That's they'll jam you up for not having the piece of paper is totally non-binary-gender-queer-trans-cis-pansexual.

This is because if the MDT is broken or the RMV is broken/****ed they still know you have a registration.

ETA: I agree though that it is basically also some kind of a weird shit test that they do... not disputing that.

-Mike

 

[MisterHappy]

PeterGV is entitled to his opinion, and to do what he likes.

Others are not required to follow his advice.

 

[PeterGV]

Good little sheep

Baaaa.

You realize I posted exactly what Mas Ayoob recommends, right? He a sheep too?

You HAVE READ the opinions on HERE from some COPS, right ? many say "they dont want to know squat-else if it doesn't pertain to the reason for the stop".

SOME cops. OK. You HAVE READ that Ayoob is a cop, right? And a nationally renowned expert in this field? With numerous books and articles to his credit. I'm sorry, but I don't know what your qualifications are. Heck, you've been a member since 2013 and you're not even green.

Now (as somebody, perhaps on this forum, once said) Ayoob can be a bit of a cheeseball. I'll grant you that. And being a published author doesn't necessarily make him instantly correct. But, you know, I suspect he's a bit more experienced in this matter than most of the folks here on NES. I'm going with his advice. Which I knew, before I posted it, wouldn't exactly be popular. That's cool with me. Live and let live. The OP asked for opinions, and I gave him mine. That's what freedom is about, boys.

Among the myriad disrespectful replies, drgrant's reply (as is often the case) tries to enlighten and by doing so raises the most interesting and valid point, from where I sit:

Sometimes telling the cop can "make things get tense quickly". You've just turned a traffic stop regarding something stupid and benign into a discussion about you carrying a gun. There are a few dumbass cops out there not accustomed to, or just simply don't like the idea of mere peons carrying firearms.

Point taken. But that hasn't been my actual experience here in NH and MA. Just sayin.

 

[Zeo]

Baaaa.. Heck, you've been a member since 2013 and you're not even green..

I'm sorry, but I don't know what your qualifications are.

LOL , that's ALL you have ? , then grow up, being "green" doesn't give one "more qualification" to make a statement, or validates any facts.

ala.. Ayoob is not the spokesman or doesn't speak for every cop ( plus laws differ by states ) , unless you're really a "sheep" and Ayoob is your shepherd, then continue to "follow".

And make sure you think about the BOLDED text.

baah .

 

[mark056]

Baaaa.

You realize I posted exactly what Mas Ayoob recommends, right? He a sheep too?

SOME cops. OK. You HAVE READ that Ayoob is a cop, right? And a nationally renowned expert in this field? With numerous books and articles to his credit. I'm sorry, but I don't know what your qualifications are. Heck, you've been a member since 2013 and you're not even green.

Now (as somebody, perhaps on this forum, once said) Ayoob can be a bit of a cheeseball. I'll grant you that. And being a published author doesn't necessarily make him instantly correct. But, you know, I suspect he's a bit more experienced in this matter than most of the folks here on NES. I'm going with his advice. Which I knew, before I posted it, wouldn't exactly be popular. That's cool with me. Live and let live. The OP asked for opinions, and I gave him mine. That's what freedom is about, boys.

Among the myriad disrespectful replies, drgrant's reply (as is often the case) tries to enlighten and by doing so raises the most interesting and valid point, from where I sit:

Point taken. But that hasn't been my actual experience here in NH and MA. Just sayin.

Actually that's not exactly what Ayoob says. Bring up the subject if you are told to leave the vehicle and use that quote verbatim. Some states you have a duty to inform, others you do not. It's your obligation to know which do and which don't. In the day of multiple licenses with overlapping reciprocity it's crucial.

Let sleeping dogs lie and don't volunteer information during a traffic stop. Be courteous, and if you caught red handed making an illegal traffic offense be honest about it. If it's questionable, don't argue and take it to court.

If the cop asks you if you are carrying be truthful and if he asks to see your LTC in Mass you must present it.

Never, ever give more information than you are required to, as you only open yourself up to more questions and a potential fishing expedition.

PS rewatch the YouTube video where he addresses the issue specifically with regard to those states where there is a duty to inform. There is no duty to inform in Mass however if ordered to exit the vehicle follow the Ayoob script exactly and you should have no problems.

 

[M1911]

Baaaa.

You realize I posted exactly what Mas Ayoob recommends, right? He a sheep too?

SOME cops. OK. You HAVE READ that Ayoob is a cop, right? And a nationally renowned expert in this field? With numerous books and articles to his credit. I'm sorry, but I don't know what your qualifications are. Heck, you've been a member since 2013 and you're not even green.

Now (as somebody, perhaps on this forum, once said) Ayoob can be a bit of a cheeseball. I'll grant you that. And being a published author doesn't necessarily make him instantly correct. But, you know, I suspect he's a bit more experienced in this matter than most of the folks here on NES. I'm going with his advice. Which I knew, before I posted it, wouldn't exactly be popular. That's cool with me. Live and let live. The OP asked for opinions, and I gave him mine. That's what freedom is about, boys.

Among the myriad disrespectful replies, drgrant's reply (as is often the case) tries to enlighten and by doing so raises the most interesting and valid point, from where I sit:

Point taken. But that hasn't been my actual experience here in NH and MA. Just sayin.

I took LFI-1 and LFI-2 from Ayoob. That is 80 hours worth of instruction. During that time he addressed what to do when stopped while carrying. He specifically suggested that you NOT notify the officer if you are in a state where it is not required. His reasoning was the same given here -- there are some officers that are anti-gun and won't respond well.

If, however, the officer orders you out of the car, he suggests that you then notify the officer.

 

[PeterGV]

Actually that's not exactly what Ayoob says.

and

I took LFI-1 and LFI-2 from Ayoob. That is 80 hours worth of instruction. During that time he addressed what to do when stopped while carrying. He specifically suggested that you NOT notify the officer if you are in a state where it is not required.

Interesting.

When I took MAG-40 three years ago from Ayoob (the 40 hour class... in New Hampshire... which was called LFI-1, before Ayoob's divorce) I distinctly remember being told what I stated above.

NOW you guys have me wondering if I misremember what I was taught.

Hmmmm... think I'll ask him to clarify.

 

[PeterGV]

OK!

I asked Mas which of us remembered the class correctly, *specifically* with regard to states where there's no duty to inform like NH and MA. Here's what he said:

Both right. There's no "school answer."

When in a state where you absolutely KNOW there's no duty to inform, leaving the gun out of it can save time and hassle. Traveling interstate, if there's any doubt, hand over the carry permit with driver's license and reg.

Making it a habit to hand over carry license with the other documents is the easiest approach, less branching and less to remember.

He starts by saying we're "both right"...

Then suggests that "don't inform" can avoid unnecessary annoyance, as folks have described here.

Then he goes on to suggest always handing the officer your pistol permit, which is effectively informing.

So, from Ayoob, what seem to me to be a big "use your own judgement." I bet he's taught it multiple ways over the years.

So much for my trying to cite Ayoob in support of my position.

 

[bigblue]

Yeah if I'm in CT, MD, HI, MA, NY, NJ, or one of the JBT states down south, I'm not handing over my LTC to start off a simple traffic stop. That's my judgement.

 

[drgrant]

Ayoob writes for gunrags to make part of his living, I'm sure he has to inject a lot of fluff or whatever into some of these articles to recycle them or whatever. Some of the stuff that he wrote, when I read it, I was like "jesus cwithe, did he really just say that? is he laughing, as he writes this?" The best is when he tells you not to do something and then cites some case example where a bunch of obscure, relatively improbable things all bad-tolerance-stack to create legal havoc for a given gun owner- while it is important that these things be discussed, it's also important to take the entire calculation of all factors involved into consideration instead of just that one thing Ayoob happened to be talking about. He's often been caught changing his opinions of things slightly over the years, too. (which is human and understandable).

Part of the problem is the medium. Being practical, pragmatic, balanced, well reasoned, etc... isn't "sexy". It doesn't sell guns, it doesn't sell magazines, etc. Goes for a lot of things. Like those health rags, etc... for example

"IF YOU DONT EAT ENOUGH FIBER YOU ARE AT INCREASED RISK OF COLON CANCER!" sells more magazines than the reality of
"People who eat more fiber sometimes have a slightly lower rate of colon cancer, so it might be worth doing."

I just pulled that out of my ass an example of two different approaches to communication, but I think you see what I am getting at. Mas has to embellish things to make things exciting, etc. That has the tendency to distort the shit out of the message and the relative importance of the information he is trying to convey- and the end result is we get a bunch of nippleheads running around going "DONT MODYFY THE TRIGGAH ON YA CARRY GUN YOULL GET THROWN IN JAYLE!!! CUZ THEY WILL CLAIM HAIR TRIGGER!" and other similar hyperbole laden bs. This is a result of people putting too much stock into something he wrote.

-Mike

 

[tuna]

I'm always in a hurry, so I always get stopped for speeding. During these stops, I always try to inform cops that:
A) I'm carrying so they don't find out by accident
B) I'm trained, so they're safe
C) I respect their professionalism
D) I respect their time, so I want things to go as fast as possible

I usually just yell out the window, "I'VE GOT A GUN AND I KNOW HOW TO USE IT, I'M NOT AFRAID TO DIE"

I find that 100% of the time, the cop is a douche.

 

[AHM]

"IF YOU DONT EAT ENOUGH FIBER YOU ARE AT INCREASED RISK OF COLON CANCER!" sells more magazines than the reality of
"People who eat more fiber sometimes have a slightly lower rate of colon cancer, so it might be worth doing."

I just pulled that out of my ass an example of two different approaches to communication, but I think you see what I am getting at.

 

[one-eyed Jack]

A couple more and we'll be at 1000 threads on this topic. Jack.

 

[Road_Clam]

You guys are all arguing over what to say or not say. As conveyed to me by a leo friend, RULE #1 during a stop, is stay calm , stay focused on cooperative communication IF questions are asked, and above all keep your hands on the steering wheel in clear sight. This is a respectful attempt to keep the situation at a safe and diffused level. Both responsible LTC civilian and LEO just want to go home safe at the end of the day....

 

[Chevy 2 65]

I never understood this.
"I would be providing the officer a courtesy to inform him that I have a weapon on me."

 

[not new guy]

You guys are all arguing over what to say or not say. As conveyed to me by a leo friend, RULE #1 during a stop, is stay calm , stay focused on cooperative communication IF questions are asked, and above all keep your hands on the steering wheel in clear sight. This is a respectful attempt to keep the situation at a safe and diffused level. Both responsible LTC civilian and LEO just want to go home safe at the end of the day....

Not a dig at you, Road Clam, but this bullshit perpetuates the problem. Cops shouldn't assume that every routine traffic stop is a driver who wants to shoot them dead at the first opportunity. They shouldn't be all bonered up and ready for a firefight at the first furtive movement, whatever the F a furtive movement is from the perspective of somebody standing outside of and behind the car. Drivers shouldn't risk getting shot because they wanted to grab their purse/registration/balls. Sure, the cops should realize that it's a possibility that there's a very desperate bad guy in the car, and they should pay attention and all that, but this hyper aggressive, hyper paranoid approach to law enforcement sucks ass. I think most cops get it, but the greenhorns and the powertrippers make everyone look bad.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

I expect your odds of surviving an encounter where the gun is spotted differ greatly based on your race.