Versatility in a firearm WRT ammunition

[Teej]

I'm new to firearms, outside of plinking with a 22 single shot when I was younger I have no other experience. I'm hoping to get my LTC in a couple of months, I know I know get hopping before things get worse, but funds are scarce at the moment, so I want to be as economical as possible when I do get it. I've spent a lot of time reading and lurking since finding this site and have found a lot of great info.

Despite all that given my limited experience and the vast amount of info here I'm still a little confused. I gather that it's possible to shoot .38 Special in a .357 Magnum or .223 in a 5.56 AR or .40 in a .357 SIG. I assume it's because the firearms have barrels that are so close in size that they are virtually identical from a caliber standpoint. So my question is why would one bother buying a .38 special pistol when they could buy a .357 pistol and have more options in ammo? Is there a big enough difference in the performance of using .38 in a .357 that doing so would be a detriment in going from a practice to live situation (i.e. practicing with .38 but carrying with .357) or is it negligible? Or is there risk of damage to the gun? From what I can tell the later calibers I listed are the more powerful (higher pressure levels) of the two ergo .357 magnum is stronger than .38 special, .357 SIG is more powerful than .40 etc. Therefore I would expect using the "lighter" round in the "bigger" gun wouldn't be a problem as the gun would be "over engineered" for the "lighter" round. Am I confused on that as well, or is it all a tastes great less filling religious debate or even just because one can doesn't mean one should?

 

[KMaurer]

I don't have any direct experience with .357 SIG, so I'll leave that for someone else. It's not simply a matter of swapping ammunition, however, but requires a rather simple change in barrels. As for .357/.38, the cylinder of a .357 magnum is approximately 0.1" longer than that of a .38 special. Thus one can chamber and fire .38 special ammunition in a .357 magnum, but not vice versa. There are a few small prices to be paid for the versatility of the .357. First, the generally cost a bit more. Second, you're going to be carrying at least a couple of ounces of weight. Finally, because the .38 special is shorted, you need to take care to clean out the residue from the front of the cylinders; if it's left there it will make it difficult or impossible to chamber a .357 magnum round properly.

Ken

 

[terraformer]

.357 sig and .40 S&W are not interchangeable. The frames supporting .357 sig (higher pressures) can take a barrel change to support .40 S&W, but that is not that same interchangeability as in your other examples. If budget is an issue, and you want semi-auto, go with 9MM. .357 sig (not to be confused with .357 magnum) and .40 S&W are expensive period. Otherwise .357 for revolvers (yes, your thing above about "beefier" is generally correct) and 5.56 for rifles.

 

[M1911]

Despite all that given my limited experience and the vast amount of info here I'm still a little confused. I gather that it's possible to shoot .38 Special in a .357 Magnum or .223 in a 5.56 AR or .40 in a .357 SIG. I assume it's because the firearms have barrels that are so close in size that they are virtually identical from a caliber standpoint.

As others have pointed out, you can't shoot .357 SIG out of a .40 barrel. You'll need a new barrel and probably magazines as well.

So my question is why would one bother buying a .38 special pistol when they could buy a .357 pistol and have more options in ammo?

It really depends upon the gun. My S&W 642 is only available in .38. You can get similar guns from S&W chambered in .357 Mag, but the recoil from a lightweight .38 is already substantial. The super lightweight .357 Magnums cost a lot more and in exchange you get far more recoil, enough to be quite painful. .38 Spcl is as much power as I can handle in a gun as light as a 642, so why pay more for .357 Magnum when I'd never want to shoot it? YMMV.

Is there a big enough difference in the performance of using .38 in a .357 that doing so would be a detriment in going from a practice to live situation (i.e. practicing with .38 but carrying with .357) or is it negligible?

There is a very substantial difference in report and recoil between the two, and sometimes in point of impact as well. If you are going to carry .357 Magnum, I suggest that you practice with it on a fairly regular basis.

Or is there risk of damage to the gun? From what I can tell the later calibers I listed are the more powerful (higher pressure levels) of the two ergo .357 magnum is stronger than .38 special, .357 SIG is more powerful than .40 etc. Therefore I would expect using the "lighter" round in the "bigger" gun wouldn't be a problem as the gun would be "over engineered" for the "lighter" round. Am I confused on that as well, or is it all a tastes great less filling religious debate or even just because one can doesn't mean one should?

.38 Special will certainly cause less wear to a gun that .357 Magnum. You might get some buildup in the chambers if you practice often with .38 that might make it difficult to chamber .357.

I'm not sure that you can make a blanket statement that .357 SIG is more powerful than .40. There are so many .40 loads (from 135gr to 200gr) that vary greatly in power.

Another important issue to consider is the cost of ammunition. Go to your local gun store and check the availability and price of the various calibers. Extra practice with 9mm is probably worth far more than the extra ballistic performance of .357 SIG, IMHO.

 

[pbearperry]

I always tell folks that a great starter gun is a 4".357.You can't go wrong with the S&W or Ruger platforms.With a .357 mag,you can shoot light 38 spl loads,standard 38 spl,+P which is higher pressure and faster than the standard 38 spl or .357 Magnums.This gun will do it all.Great gun for learning,home defense and in some applications hunting.

 

[Teej]

.357 sig and .40 S&W are not interchangeable. The frames supporting .357 sig (higher pressures) can take a barrel change to support .40 S&W, but that is not that same interchangeability as in your other examples. If budget is an issue, and you want semi-auto, go with 9MM. .357 sig (not to be confused with .357 magnum) and .40 S&W are expensive period. Otherwise .357 for revolvers (yes, your thing above about "beefier" is generally correct) and 5.56 for rifles.

Okay I thought I had read the the .357 Sig was a necked down .40. Just curious is it a difference in the barrel with the way the round sits in the chamber or the rim of the case is different between the two?

 

[wolf223]

but funds are scarce at the moment

.22LR - Ruger 10/22, you can build up as $$ becomes availalbe

9mm - pick one: Glock, Sig, M&P, Berretta. a 9mm is chaper to schoot and still is adequate for CCW vs. .380 (more expensive), .38 (more expensive) .357mag (more expensive) .40 more expensive)., .45 (more expensive) and so on...

 

[Teej]

As others have pointed out, you can't shoot .357 SIG out of a .40 barrel. You'll need a new barrel and probably magazines as well.

It really depends upon the gun. My S&W 642 is only available in .38. You can get similar guns from S&W chambered in .357 Mag, but the recoil from a lightweight .38 is already substantial. The super lightweight .357 Magnums cost a lot more and in exchange you get far more recoil, enough to be quite painful. .38 Spcl is as much power as I can handle in a gun as light as a 642, so why pay more for .357 Magnum when I'd never want to shoot it? YMMV.

There is a very substantial difference in report and recoil between the two, and sometimes in point of impact as well. If you are going to carry .357 Magnum, I suggest that you practice with it on a fairly regular basis.

.38 Special will certainly cause less wear to a gun that .357 Magnum. You might get some buildup in the chambers if you practice often with .38 that might make it difficult to chamber .357.

I'm not sure that you can make a blanket statement that .357 SIG is more powerful than .40. There are so many .40 loads (from 135gr to 200gr) that vary greatly in power.

Another important issue to consider is the cost of ammunition. Go to your local gun store and check the availability and price of the various calibers. Extra practice with 9mm is probably worth far more than the extra ballistic performance of .357 SIG, IMHO.

Personal preferences obviously come into play and of course not having actually gone to the range yet I have no preference yet just trying to get a better understanding and some opinions . So recoil will be significantly different between the two? I know the gun weight plays a lot into how much recoil is felt but didn't think there would be that much of a difference in a couple of ounces. Then again I do a lot of travel so toting around a 5 lb laptop is a lot better than toting around a 6 pound laptop.... Thanks for the info.

One question your handle is M1911 I assume it's because your a fan of the 1911 pistol, how does the recoil on the 1911 compare to that of the .38 or .357?

 

[Teej]

.22LR - Ruger 10/22, you can build up as $$ becomes availalbe

9mm - pick one: Glock, Sig, M&P, Berretta. a 9mm is chaper to schoot and still is adequate for CCW vs. .380 (more expensive), .38 (more expensive) .357mag (more expensive) .40 more expensive)., .45 (more expensive) and so on...

Are those in order of increasing expense? .380<.38<.357 mag<.40 etc?

 

[Teej]

I always tell folks that a great starter gun is a 4".357.You can't go wrong with the S&W or Ruger platforms.With a .357 mag,you can shoot light 38 spl loads,standard 38 spl,+P which is higher pressure and faster than the standard 38 spl or .357 Magnums.This gun will do it all.Great gun for learning,home defense and in some applications hunting.

Thanks for the suggestion.

 

[wolf223]

Are those in order of increasing expense? .380<.38<.357 mag<.40 etc?

not really,

but you can shop around online or visit stores. 9mm is most common round so it's always cheaper. you will always find it anywhere you go.

you can get a case of Remington UMC 9mm FMJ's for $80 bucks at Dicks (500ct) vs. $150 for .40 & .45 when it's on sale.

i carry a .40, but practice 80% of the time with 9mm BTW.

side note on the .40 / 357sig:

you can get conversion barrels to go from .40 to 9mm, and a .357sig "drop in" barrel on Glocks, Sigs and M&P's w/o issues.

 

[terraformer]

Okay I thought I had read the the .357 Sig was a necked down .40. Just curious is it a difference in the barrel with the way the round sits in the chamber or the rim of the case is different between the two?

It is. The case is necked down from an inside diameter of .40" to .357" in order to accept what is a 9mm (.357" == 9MM) bullet, with a .40 caliber load, hence the high gas pressure. The necked case also has the benefit of burning more of the charge inside the casing which further increases pressures.
Obviously the barrel's inside diameter will be the nominal size of the bullet, and not the casing. The casing has some impact on the breach of the barrel, but not the barrel diameter. Don't worry, this gets even more confusing when you find out that a .38 is really .357" and that is just all of the popular nominal calibers surrounding .357" diameter bullets. There are probably another 5 or 6 rounds that all use that diameter sized bullet like .38 S&W, .380 which is aka 9mm kurtz...
I am not knocking the .357 sig round, but if you are new or want to shoot often and have financial limitations, you are way better going with 9mm and loading +P (high pressure) 9MMs for carry. This way you can shoot $20/100 rounds 9mm ball instead of $35/50 rounds .357 JHP since I have yet to see a source for .537 sig ball ammo in MA and I doubt the pricing would be so much better.

 

[M1911]

Personal preferences obviously come into play and of course not having actually gone to the range yet I have no preference yet just trying to get a better understanding and some opinions . So recoil will be significantly different between the two? I know the gun weight plays a lot into how much recoil is felt but didn't think there would be that much of a difference in a couple of ounces. Then again I do a lot of travel so toting around a 5 lb laptop is a lot better than toting around a 6 pound laptop.... Thanks for the info.

Difference in recoil between a 15 oz J-frame shooting .38 and a 16 oz J-frame shooting .38 is probably too small to notice. The difference between shooting .38 and .357 out of the same 15 oz revolver is very, very noticeable. Heck, the difference is very noticeable even in a 36 oz S&W Model 66.

One question your handle is M1911 I assume it's because your a fan of the 1911 pistol, how does the recoil on the 1911 compare to that of the .38 or .357?

Your question is overly broad. Compared against which .38 and which .357? A full size steel-framed 1911 doesn't have that much recoil, IMHO. My Kimber Compact (smaller 1911) with an aluminum frame has much more noticeable recoil than my full-size, steel-framed 1911.

A 4" S&W Model 66 is a large, 36 oz revolver. It has very little recoil shooting .38 Spcl. A 16 oz Model 642, in contrast, has quite a bit of recoil shooting .38. I think the S&W Model 66 has more recoil firing .357 than a fullsize 1911. In fact, I find firing .357 out of the Model 66 somewhat of a pain.

And even within a single caliber on a single gun, you can get significant differences. There's a noticeable difference between a 45 ACP 200gr semi-wadcutter gamer load and a 45 ACP +P JHP defensive load.

Different people feel recoil differently. Try before you buy.

 

[M1911]

Are those in order of increasing expense? .380<.38<.357 mag<.40 etc?

You'll have to go to a gun store and check. I haven't shopped for ammo in a while.

 

[RKG]

. . . As for .357/.38, the cylinder of a .357 magnum is approximately 0.1" longer than that of a .38 special. Thus one can chamber and fire .38 special ammunition in a .357 magnum, but not vice versa. . . .

Ken

As for .357/.38, the chambers of a .357 magnum are 0.135" longer than those of a .38 special. Thus one can chamber and fire .38 special ammunition in a .357 magnum, but not vice versa.

(Damn nitpickers can't help themselves!)

 

[vellnueve]

The .357 Magnum was specifically designed so that it would not load into a .38 cylinder.

The .357 Sig and .40 S&W are common in that a barrel change will usually be sufficient to convert the handgun. Many mags will be the same (Glock mags work the same, as do M&P mags, although others do not).

However, some older .40 frames are not built tough enough to handle a steady diet of .357s.