Wakefield LTC Court case

[Rob Boudrie]

Then you keep the dammed Fudd guns! What are they going to do? Bust you for exercising your 2A rights?

I'm simply saying that bringing an action that the court will summary reject based on law without even resorting to the "cuz guns" doctrine is a waste of time.

If he wants to push it, the next step is an appeal to the SMC (Supreme Marsupial Court) of MA.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

hey Rob,
any instances of a denial upheld on appeal but the applicant then moves to another MA town and gets LTC with no issues that you guys know of??????

Not that I know of, but I can imaging it happening in some towns.

 

[BOOTKNIFEFAN]

I'm simply saying that bringing an action that the court will summary reject based on law without even resorting to the "cuz guns" doctrine is a waste of time.

If he wants to push it, the next step is an appeal to the SMC (Supreme Marsupial Court) of MA.

Keep on documenting. The only reason NY gun laws held up under court challenges is because they affect handgun ownership only. Want a Fudd gun in NY? Lay down your cash or credit card, pass federal background check, and go home with your O/U trap/skeet gun or your .270 deer rifle. MA law is essentially banning all resident firearms ownership if a chief says so. A nonresident can bring a Fudd gun into MA legally, but a resident can be denied? If that is not a 2A case, then I am hard-pressed to find one that is! Personally, I would just keep the Fudd guns. What are they going to do, arrest me? I got a felony weapons arrest before and am still here, decades later, alive and well and possessing firearms and (my favorites!) edged weapons. Maybe Rosa Parks had the right attitude!

 

[bfm]

Reading is AIDS too. My bro in law moved there and was told he had to be a resident for at least a year before he could even apply. Nice work Reading

Wonder what they would do with me. Buy house, move in with 4 years on existing LTC, then go for renewal.

 

[Chevy 2 65]

Clear and blatant disregard for the constitution. Talk about denying some's right, that right there is crystal clear.

 

[murf4321]

Wonder what they would do with me. Buy house, move in with 4 years on existing LTC, then go for renewal.

You'd be fine. Believe it was double whammy as my bro in law didn't have any LTC & they flat out told him not to apply until he had been a resident for 12 months. Sweet "right."

 

[BOOTKNIFEFAN]

Wonder what they would do with me. Buy house, move in with 4 years on existing LTC, then go for renewal.

Comm2A should bring up the case of that 308rifleman guy. Denied LTC in Wakefield for getting jailed and kicked out of the Marines for refusing vaccines, married to an anesthesiologist and gets FID no problem at all!

 

[Picton]

You'd be fine. Believe it was double whammy as my bro in law didn't have any LTC & they flat out told him not to apply until he had been a resident for 12 months. Sweet "right."

It used to be much, much worse there. They used to issue Target & Hunting restrictions on first application as a matter of course, then you had to beg to get the restrictions removed after a couple years.

At least now it's green, once you do apply. I've never heard of the 12 mos residency thing, but then again I got my LTC about two chiefs ago.

 

[drgrant]

Comm2A should bring up the case of that 308rifleman guy. Denied LTC in Wakefield for getting jailed and kicked out of the Marines for refusing vaccines, married to an anesthesiologist and gets FID no problem at all!

Lol you keep talking about yourself in the third person, weird flex, but you do you. You're not fooling anyone dude, or at least anyone actually paying attention. Regardless I don't think Comm2A would want a plaintiff that's basically a Calvert1. Not a good look.

 

[mjbff]

This could happen to anybody if they want to take away your rights to carry a firearm legally they have plenty of money to do so. For any reason at all. They can make you go broke legally through our justice system

 

[murf4321]

It used to be much, much worse there. They used to issue Target & Hunting restrictions on first application as a matter of course, then you had to beg to get the restrictions removed after a couple years.

At least now it's green, once you do apply. I've never heard of the 12 mos residency thing, but then again I got my LTC about two chiefs ago.

yep, he walked in exactly 12 months later with his application and was given no restrictions. Pure nonsense to make someone wait

 

[BOOTKNIFEFAN]

Lol you keep talking about yourself in the third person, weird flex, but you do you. You're not fooling anyone dude, or at least anyone actually paying attention. Regardless I don't think Comm2A would want a plaintiff that's basically a Calvert1. Not a good look.

Not sure about Wakefield. Woburn chief does LTC with restrictions. I did a lot of research and found out that Woburn denied a dentist for a restraining order that expired years ago. Again, not sure about MA but Illinois restraining orders are civil, FOID gets suspended while in effect and reinstated after expiration. This is in accordance with federal law.

 

[BOOTKNIFEFAN]

We won in the district court but lost in the appeals court. Disappointing decision.

I researched the entire NES website and the only LTC denial victory that I found in Wakefield was won by a Mr. Ahmadov. Everyone else, including a doctor, lost in court. At least 3 or 4 losses and one victory. Not good at all!

 

[nstassel]

I researched the entire NES website and the only LTC denial victory that I found in Wakefield was won by a Mr. Ahmadov. Everyone else, including a doctor, lost in court. At least 3 or 4 losses and one victory. Not good at all!

No I didn't post anything about that district court win since the town appealed it and I knew it wasn't over. Hopefully it still isn't all over.

 

[drgrant]

Not sure about Wakefield.

View: https://youtu.be/_fwJo3bA05Q


Lol you know all about Wakefield, unless you made all that up, too. At this juncture, I would highly suggest seeking assistance from a mental health professional.

 

[42!]

Doesn't cost much. You own .22 bolt gun and 12 gauge O/U. Fudd guns. You are diligently trying to comply with onerous MA gun laws, which allow nonresidents to possess such Fudd guns in this state, but local chief is preventing you from complying by refusing FID issue. Summons and complaint, deputy or constable serves civil process to chief, copy to Comm2A and court date is set. You have a Constitutional right to own , maybe not carry a gun. See you in court!

The chances of winning on the first round are near zero, doing it without a lawyer and those chances drop to zero. And if by some chance you do win the first round, they will appeal. So you are looking at 2 rounds in the courts and you need the right setup of the first or the second is a guarantee loss. So an easy $10K maybe more. Not everyone has that much free cash sitting around for what is likely to be a loss and just a start of the fight.

 

[GlockJock]

OK, was looking at Wakefield as a possible place to move. Looks like maybe Reading would be better, if outside 128 instead of inside.

Before ANYONE moves ANYWHERE in this 'CommonPuke of LiberChusetts' based on the gun laws/rules/restrictions/etc etc in the town they're thinking of moving to, stop and consider this: What happens when Chief 'Green' in whatever town you're moving to retires, or moves to a job in another town, or had kissed the proper ass and/or made some 'wise contributions' during the last election cycle and gets appointed to some huge Fed job etc etc....and the new guy or gal the town hires is named 'Chief Red'... (and you've just spent your life savings moving, uprooted your family etc etc etc to get the hell out of the town where Chief Green retired)....

What then? Tell the wife: Um, honey, I know you're getting along great the new neighbors but the 'Target and Hunting only' restriction that I just got screwed with means we have to look for a different town to live in and...."

And let me know how your dinner consisting of 'Hot Tongue and Cold Shoulder' looks and tastes that evening.. (as your bride decides how much extra 'seasoning' to add to it)....

Just sayin'

 

[drgrant]

Before ANYONE moves ANYWHERE in this 'CommonPuke of LiberChusetts' based on the gun laws/rules/restrictions/etc etc in the town they're thinking of moving to, stop and consider this: What happens when Chief 'Green' in whatever town you're moving to retires, or moves to a job in another town, or had kissed the proper ass and/or made some 'wise contributions' during the last election cycle and gets appointed to some huge Fed job etc etc....and the new guy or gal the town hires is named 'Chief Red'... (and you've just spent your life savings moving, uprooted your family etc etc etc to get the hell out of the town where Chief Green retired)....

What then? Tell the wife: Um, honey, I know you're getting along great the new neighbors but the 'Target and Hunting only' restriction that I just got screwed with means we have to look for a different town to live in and...."

And let me know how your dinner consisting of 'Hot Tongue and Cold Shoulder' looks and tastes that evening.. (as your bride decides how much extra 'seasoning' to add to it)....

Just sayin'

Most shit towns are shit because of a prevailing attitude by the mayors office or the PD etc. Most haven't "gotten worse". Compared to 15 years ago the number of total shit towns has dropped dramatically.

Greasing pols is amateur hour btw. You can just wallhack (by town shopping) the entire process for a few grand without paying a single politician maybe a lot less depending on how resourceful you are. (Like that brother who has the empty inlaw apartment you can use in green town Z, etc).

 

[bfm]

Greasing pols is amateur hour btw. You can just wallhack (by town shopping) the entire process for a few grand without paying a single politician maybe a lot less depending on how resourceful you are. (Like that brother who has the empty inlaw apartment you can use in green town Z, etc).

When I first got my permit, everyone had stories of how bad Somerville was. It did help having lived there my whole life. Took two minutes of chatting to figure out I went to school with the sister of the woman who was doing the interview. I think I also got lucky that I did not have a renewal during the couple years that they were apparently denying or restricting everyone.

Dealing with a new town if/when I move will be interesting, but it will probably be easier to get a renewal as someone with decades of having an unrestricted LTC and having owned a home there for a few years before needing to renew than to be an eager 20 something who just moved to a town.

I have heard at least one LEO say a reason for not giving an unrestricted to someone who just moved in and is looking for a first license is to cut down on town shopping. I am not sure I believe most Chiefs worry that much about someone moving in for a year to get an unrestricted and then moving to the red town they want to live in, but it could happen. In several towns it does seem that the person who lived there a couple years before applying is more likely to get unrestricted than the person who just moved in is. Though I have not seen a town say not to apply for a year, but I have seen them only give restricted if you don't.

 

[bfm]

What then? Tell the wife: Um, honey, I know you're getting along great the new neighbors but the 'Target and Hunting only' restriction that I just got screwed with means we have to look for a different town to live in and...."

Has anyone had a license down graded from unrestricted to restricted in the same town?

It happened to me for two weeks in Somerville. They went to correct a misspelling of my name and it came back restricted. I pointed it out and the had another one sent out. Took two weeks to correct and I am pretty sure there was nothing intentional in it. So, in one month I had three permits, first with misspelling, second with restriction and third all correct.

 

[Picton]

Before ANYONE moves ANYWHERE in this 'CommonPuke of LiberChusetts' based on the gun laws/rules/restrictions/etc etc in the town they're thinking of moving to, stop and consider this: What happens when Chief 'Green' in whatever town you're moving to retires, or moves to a job in another town, or had kissed the proper ass and/or made some 'wise contributions' during the last election cycle and gets appointed to some huge Fed job etc etc....and the new guy or gal the town hires is named 'Chief Red'... (and you've just spent your life savings moving, uprooted your family etc etc etc to get the hell out of the town where Chief Green retired)....

What then? Tell the wife: Um, honey, I know you're getting along great the new neighbors but the 'Target and Hunting only' restriction that I just got screwed with means we have to look for a different town to live in and...."

And let me know how your dinner consisting of 'Hot Tongue and Cold Shoulder' looks and tastes that evening.. (as your bride decides how much extra 'seasoning' to add to it)....

Just sayin'

In my experience, the opposite is much more likely. There used to be a WHOLE lot more red and yellow towns before the law changed. Where I lived, they went from red to green literally overnight once that law passed.

But it's definitely something to think about, yes. I'm not sure how you'd know, other than by paying attention to the way the Chief's bosses have tried to influence him in the past. And unless you're a local (or know one), there's no way you'd ever know that.

 

[drgrant]

When I first got my permit, everyone had stories of how bad Somerville was. It did help having lived there my whole life. Took two minutes of chatting to figure out I went to school with the sister of the woman who was doing the interview. I think I also got lucky that I did not have a renewal during the couple years that they were apparently denying or restricting everyone.

Dealing with a new town if/when I move will be interesting, but it will probably be easier to get a renewal as someone with decades of having an unrestricted LTC and having owned a home there for a few years before needing to renew than to be an eager 20 something who just moved to a town.

I have heard at least one LEO say a reason for not giving an unrestricted to someone who just moved in and is looking for a first license is to cut down on town shopping. I am not sure I believe most Chiefs worry that much about someone moving in for a year to get an unrestricted and then moving to the red town they want to live in, but it could happen. In several towns it does seem that the person who lived there a couple years before applying is more likely to get unrestricted than the person who just moved in is. Though I have not seen a town say not to apply for a year, but I have seen them only give restricted if you don't.

I think Brookline is one of the few towns that will downgrade renewals after move in, but as long as you stay away from the worst places you won't have any problem. Even Boston doesn't neuter move-ins anymore.

 

[DJBrad]

View: https://youtu.be/_fwJo3bA05Q


Lol you know all about Wakefield, unless you made all that up, too. At this juncture, I would highly suggest seeking assistance from a mental health professional.

I perform backyard frontal lobotomies on the side for some ammo if needed. Just PM me @BOOTKNIFEFAN.

 

[bigbravehog]

That stinks. I misread it.
What the police chiefs can get away with under the guise of suitability in this state is shameful.

Bob

shameful that we let it get that way. I remember before '94 (I think it was '76), I had my first unrestricted weapons permit as "indefinite", and continued to watch our rights be slowly taken away until now, where we are classified as felons in this state.

 

[HorizontalHunter]

shameful that we let it get that way. I remember before '94 (I think it was '76), I had my first unrestricted weapons permit as "indefinite", and continued to watch our rights be slowly taken away until now, where we are classified as felons in this state.

It is a systemic attack that is hard to defend against when the entity you are fighting has unlimited resources of your money.

Then add in the fact that if there are enough laws everyone is guilty of something.

When I grew up the guns were in the closet and the ammunition was on the shelf above it. If you wanted to go hunting after school you would just toss the gun in the trunk and go after classes. Guns were considered a tool. Nothing more. Nothing less.

Today the indoctrination of our children starts in grade school. Guns are bad and need to be feared. Hunting is bad. If they are told the same thing for 10 years or more the will believe it.

It is very hard to fight this kind of systemic attack that has unlimited funding paid for by our tax dollars.

Bob

 

[Glocklike tendencies]

View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Jw36ivnRHRQ

 

[bigbravehog]

It is a systemic attack that is hard to defend against when the entity you are fighting has unlimited resources of your money.

Then add in the fact that if there are enough laws everyone is guilty of something.

When I grew up the guns were in the closet and the ammunition was on the shelf above it. If you wanted to go hunting after school you would just toss the gun in the trunk and go after classes. Guns were considered a tool. Nothing more. Nothing less.

Today the indoctrination of our children starts in grade school. Guns are bad and need to be feared. Hunting is bad. If they are told the same thing for 10 years or more the will believe it.

It is very hard to fight this kind of systemic attack that has unlimited funding paid for by our tax dollars.

Bob

agree 1000%. It seemed I didn't know where to turn to fight this attack. I belonged to the NRA for 20+ years thinking they would fight for us, but ended up wasting my money.

 

[Happy feet]

I researched the entire NES website and the only LTC denial victory that I found in Wakefield was won by a Mr. Ahmadov. Everyone else, including a doctor, lost in court. At least 3 or 4 losses and one victory. Not good at all!

Just because it's not on NES doesn't mean that no one has had a victory in Wakefield, most of the time the wins and losses that are posted seem to be the more the more interesting or impactful ones. (Like this case which has a lot going on and some unusual and interesting elements/contradictions) I wouldn't be surprised if some cases were worked out before the actual trial.

From what I.ve gathered from your posts your best bet would be to rent if and when you move to the area to check out the towns that work for you before spending huge amounts of money to buy in an area that may not suit you. When you are physically here hire an attorney who specializes in gun laws and go from their. Some of the towns that you,ve mentioned (Woburn and reading are traffic nightmares) Wakefield is actually the nicer of the 3

 

[AHM]

Before ANYONE moves ANYWHERE in this 'CommonPuke of LiberChusetts' based on the gun laws/rules/restrictions/etc etc in the town they're thinking of moving to, stop and consider this: What happens when Chief 'Green' in whatever town you're moving to retires, or moves to a job in another town, or had kissed the proper ass and/or made some 'wise contributions' during the last election cycle and gets appointed to some huge Fed job etc etc....and the new guy or gal the town hires is named 'Chief Red'... (and you've just spent your life savings moving, uprooted your family etc etc etc to get the hell out of the town where Chief Green retired)....

(As @drgrant sez) the last I heard, in the PRM no town's chief
gets to enact a gun policy that's at strong variance
from the selectmens'/mayor's desires.

If the board are anti's, they won't hire a Green chief,
and they won't renew his contract if a Red chief
takes a Hillsdale College constitution course
and comes down with a severe case of Religion.

If the board are not doctrinaire,
and gun owners keep coming out of the woodwork
at Every Freaking Board Meeting to bleat about Mah Sivil Rites,
they're gonna tell the Chief to keep his Nazi tendencies to himself
and stop making work for them, lest his contract be short and ugly.


My town's in the middle of a search for the replacement for
the second Green chief in a row (after the Reddest one you can imagine).

Perhaps as few as only one of the selectmen is a gun guy.
However a notorious former selectman failed in his re-election bid
after pushing for an assault weapon ban
because of ill-health: the voters got sick of him.
My fingers are crossed that the board knows a third rail when they step on it.

Most shit towns are shit because of a prevailing attitude by the mayors office or the PD etc.

^ This.

I have heard at least one LEO say a reason for not giving an unrestricted to someone who just moved in and is looking for a first license is to cut down on town shopping. I am not sure I believe most Chiefs worry that much about someone moving in for a year to get an unrestricted and then moving to the red town they want to live in, but it could happen.

That's just an excuse, or the chief is an empty chair who derives his self-worth
from what the other chiefs think of him at the MCPA "fraternity" meetings.

There are too many pure green towns for any chief with a spine not to flick off criticism
about unrestricted LTCs from whatever raging orifice tries to chat him up over it.

Has anyone had a license down graded from unrestricted to restricted in the same town?

It happened to me for two weeks in Somerville. They went to correct a misspelling of my name ...

(Sounds like Somerville outed themselves there).

 

[cams]

Had my LTC suspended before in Framingham for about 8-10 months maybe while I fought it in court. Handful of felony charges pending against me at the time, for a simple self defense case, there was considerable violence involved but again all in self defense.

I beat all charges in court after a good chunk of $$, my license was reinstated by order of the judge and my pistol returned to me the same day. It’s not fun and it’s not cheap, but you have to fight it or just roll over for them like they expect.