I just bought this gun a couple weeks ago to add to my collection. I also figured I would like carrying it; instead of my .40 M&P Compact but found that (for some strange reason) the M&Pc was much more comfortable. Anyway... I was going to bring it to the range to try it out but wanted to practice field stripping at the house first. After learning more about the gun I decided to load it and see how the action was compared to the M&Pc. Here's what I found: The M&P's loading action was much more smooth. Anytime I pulled the action back on the PPK; it felt like it was grinding and the first round would "stove pipe". I pulled the action back again and the round would then slide into the chamber but the second would jam just under the first and the action would not close.....?? I was thinking the gun might be dirty or it was the rounds so I cleaned and oiled the hell out of it and got the same results. I'm not sure what make the rounds are; I through away the box but they are hollow tips. I took it back to FS and they guy mentioned that he has heard of this before with the PPK. Needless to say; I paid the 25 bucks to ship it to S&W to get checked out. Has anyone else had any issues with there PPK? Has anyone else had issues with certain types of rounds? After S&W check it out, do they charge you for any repairs - I mean come on - it's a brand new gun. Any info would be great. Thanks!!
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Walther PPK - Gun Jam - Stove Pipe Issue
- Thread starter PEMS2324
- Start date
I have an aversion to the PPK because it doesn't fit my hand very well. I wish that wasn't the case. I had actually gone to a shop to buy one but decided that I didn't need 'rails' cut into the meat of my hand if I didn't plop that pistol 100% properly into my shooting hand.
As for stovepipe issue, is it possible that you're "limpwristing" the pistol enough so that you're "catching" the ejected brass? I've found that small pistols with good loads will want to recoil pretty hard and keeping the muzzle down is more difficult than with a heavier handgun.
Just a thought.
Rome
As for stovepipe issue, is it possible that you're "limpwristing" the pistol enough so that you're "catching" the ejected brass? I've found that small pistols with good loads will want to recoil pretty hard and keeping the muzzle down is more difficult than with a heavier handgun.
Just a thought.
Rome
You should have called S&W directly they would have sent you a shipping label to return the pistol,someone at FS should have told you that and you would have saved yourself $25. That said PPKs of yore had the same problems and IIRC it was mostly mag related. S&W has a lifetime warranty,the only charge I ever paid was to have a revolver cleaned that I sent for repairs. My fault should have cleaned it before returning it.
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I am confused (again!). In reading your post it sounds as if you were hand cycling the action when the stovepiping occurred.
Is this the case..or were you shooting?
It would not surprise me if it stovepiped during hand cycling.
Is this the case..or were you shooting?
It would not surprise me if it stovepiped during hand cycling.
Not sure what Limp wristing is?? But I tried pulling the action back with different motions and got the same results. I like the gun but wouldn't carry it because it just didn't feel like the .40 cal.
This gun; when I get it back will just end up being a show piece. I might take it to the range but that's about it.
FS did mention that I could ship it myself to save the $$ but i just didn't want to be bothered by it. I figured having FS ship it, at least they would know I was having teouble with it where I just bought it (not that it matters to them - I guess - or I don't think they do).
Limp Wristing?
This gun; when I get it back will just end up being a show piece. I might take it to the range but that's about it.
FS did mention that I could ship it myself to save the $$ but i just didn't want to be bothered by it. I figured having FS ship it, at least they would know I was having teouble with it where I just bought it (not that it matters to them - I guess - or I don't think they do).
Limp Wristing?
mine did the same thing it can be tough to cycle the slide when its new the action did not seem to close 1 out of 5 times. I think its cause your not pulling it all the way back thats what i was doing. The recoil spring is tough on those. When i brought it to the range it shot fine put 200 rounds threw it since then the slide cycles fine by hand.
Thanks !! That might be the case; but I thought I would try pulling it back with more force and all it did was jam again. It is nothing like the M&Pc; I can tell you that.
I think once I get it back; if it loads, I'll take it to the range and fire off a bunch of rounds and see what happens from there.
Hi:
I believe what is meant by "limp wristing" in that in a rcoil action the frame has to be held fairly rigid to allow full compression of the recoil spring. Difficult when hand operating the slide.
Most stovepiping is caused by short cycling, magazine problems are mostly "failure to feed"
Just one "OLD" man's opinion
I believe what is meant by "limp wristing" in that in a rcoil action the frame has to be held fairly rigid to allow full compression of the recoil spring. Difficult when hand operating the slide.
Most stovepiping is caused by short cycling, magazine problems are mostly "failure to feed"
Just one "OLD" man's opinion
Not to be snarky but, this is the first time I've ever heard of someone sending a gun back without shooting it.
I don't get this part...
If you had a stovepipe, how can operating the slide again cause the round to feed properly? Here's a stovepipe:
If the first round did manage to chamber somehow, did it fail to extract when you tried to load the second?
Are you "riding" the slide (operating it in a controlled manner with your hand) or letting it slam home? You don't want to ride the slide. Let it slam home. You won't hurt the gun - it's the way it operates when you fire it. If you're riding the slide, it not surprising that a new gun might not go into battery, and if you somehow did get the round chambered, the extractor might not even clear the rim if you ride the slide.
A couple of other points...
Some guns don't work with some types of ammo. Some guns won't feed hollowpoints reliably. What does the headstamp read on the bottom of your cartridges?
Some guns require a break in period of several hundred rounds. This wasn't the case with my PPK (it also feeds hollwpoints reliably), but your gun might be different. If I get a new gun, I like to run a few hundred rounds through it before thinking about fixing it.
Finally, it might be a good idea to get yourself some inert training ammo if you're going to be practicing loading and cycling your pistol anyplace but the range.
I don't get this part...
If you had a stovepipe, how can operating the slide again cause the round to feed properly? Here's a stovepipe:
If the first round did manage to chamber somehow, did it fail to extract when you tried to load the second?
Are you "riding" the slide (operating it in a controlled manner with your hand) or letting it slam home? You don't want to ride the slide. Let it slam home. You won't hurt the gun - it's the way it operates when you fire it. If you're riding the slide, it not surprising that a new gun might not go into battery, and if you somehow did get the round chambered, the extractor might not even clear the rim if you ride the slide.
A couple of other points...
Some guns don't work with some types of ammo. Some guns won't feed hollowpoints reliably. What does the headstamp read on the bottom of your cartridges?
Some guns require a break in period of several hundred rounds. This wasn't the case with my PPK (it also feeds hollwpoints reliably), but your gun might be different. If I get a new gun, I like to run a few hundred rounds through it before thinking about fixing it.
Finally, it might be a good idea to get yourself some inert training ammo if you're going to be practicing loading and cycling your pistol anyplace but the range.
45collector
NES Member
Good advise above.
FYI, I know what you're talking about. My PPK/s does the exact thing you're describing. Don't worry about it. Go and shoot it. Cycyling any Walther PP variant by hand does not reliably eject each round, and you will get FTF's.
FYI, I know what you're talking about. My PPK/s does the exact thing you're describing. Don't worry about it. Go and shoot it. Cycyling any Walther PP variant by hand does not reliably eject each round, and you will get FTF's.
Keep in mind that I'm trying to help you. There's no need to get salty with me.
Your post wasn't very clear. You came asking for help and we can't provide it without some additional information such as:
How do you get the first round to load (chamber) after it stovepipes?
When you cycle the slide again after loading the first round, does the first round not extract?
What do you mean by "the second would jam just under the first"? Is the first round still in the chamber?
Are you riding the slide or letting it slam home? If you ride the slide, the gun won't load properly, and you'll have extraction problems if the slide doesn't return with force sufficient to allow the extractor claw to engage the case rim.
Are you saying you don't load or cycle anywhere but the range? Hmm, I want to carry my PPK today, better go to the range to load it....![[thinking]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/010.gif "Thinking [thinking]")
Of course I load my carry gun, but you said you were "practicing". You don't need live ammo to do what you were doing.
No offense, but you don't sound very experienced (hollowtips instead of hollowpoints, not knowing what kind of ammo you have in spite of the fact that the brand is headstamped on every case, "clip" instead of magazine).
If you were to ask people here (especially the experienced ones) what they use to practice clearing malfunctions, etc while not at the range, you'll find that most use practice (dummy) ammo.
ETA: I understand your frustration. You just bought a new gun and it doesn't work. I'm really trying to help you.
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I have a PPK/S and have had the same experience...but it is due to the fact that the recoil spring is very tight and 99 times out of 100 feeding problems when hand cycling are attributable to easing the action forward.
I have put hundreds of round through mine with no problem. You MUST pull the slide all the way back and LET IT GO!! (like a slingshot) It should operate properly.
I'm sure you'll be happy with it. I too alternate between the M&P 40C and the ppk for carry (depending on what I'm wearing). If you haven't already, try an in the pants holster for the Walther. MAkes carrying more comfy, I've found.
And for Eddie, he's kinda right....Winchester "Silver-TIPS" are very common Hollow-POINT ammo for the PPK. Just a blending of the two names...
I have put hundreds of round through mine with no problem. You MUST pull the slide all the way back and LET IT GO!! (like a slingshot) It should operate properly.
I'm sure you'll be happy with it. I too alternate between the M&P 40C and the ppk for carry (depending on what I'm wearing). If you haven't already, try an in the pants holster for the Walther. MAkes carrying more comfy, I've found.
And for Eddie, he's kinda right....Winchester "Silver-TIPS" are very common Hollow-POINT ammo for the PPK. Just a blending of the two names...
Eddie,
Sorry for being salty.. I'm having a monday from hell.. Thank you for your help.
I'll try to be more clear;
When the action is pulled back to load the gun, the round slides almost straight upwards and the action does not completly go in. I try to release the mag and the mad will not come out (??). I tilt the gun to try and clear the round (slowly and only half way so as not too let the next round attempt to chamber) and the second round gets caught on the first.
The only way to clear the gun is too: drop the trigger guard and romove slide the chamber off, then the mag comes out and I can clear the round in the chamber (I think this is correct - from memory). The gun is being shipped to S&W now.
I just wanted some insite as too what could be wrong..
Maybe it's me, but I doubt it, I have tried to slide the action back both riding and letting is go by itself.
Again, sorry... It's a f**king bad monday..
Oh, as for the practicing with live rounds.. The snap Caps are ok, I have them for my .38 snub and the .40 but just bought the PPK and didn't get any yet for it..
Sorry for being salty.. I'm having a monday from hell.. Thank you for your help.
I'll try to be more clear;
When the action is pulled back to load the gun, the round slides almost straight upwards and the action does not completly go in. I try to release the mag and the mad will not come out (??). I tilt the gun to try and clear the round (slowly and only half way so as not too let the next round attempt to chamber) and the second round gets caught on the first.
The only way to clear the gun is too: drop the trigger guard and romove slide the chamber off, then the mag comes out and I can clear the round in the chamber (I think this is correct - from memory). The gun is being shipped to S&W now.
I just wanted some insite as too what could be wrong..
Maybe it's me, but I doubt it, I have tried to slide the action back both riding and letting is go by itself.
Again, sorry... It's a f**king bad monday..
Oh, as for the practicing with live rounds.. The snap Caps are ok, I have them for my .38 snub and the .40 but just bought the PPK and didn't get any yet for it..
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Thanks Max...
I like the PPK - haven't got it to fire so I can't say I like it THAT much. But, if I had to choose; it would be the M&Pc : )
Hollow-Point / Hollow-Tip
I didn't realize we were so critical on terms here.. My mistake..
I Hate Mondays !!!
![[smile]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/001.gif "Smile [smile]")
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kevin9
NES Member
Assuming you're loading it like Walther recommends, pulling the slide all the way back and releasing it, then here are some other things to consider:
- I know this sounds really dumb, but stranger things have happened; be sure you're using the right caliber cartridges. PPKs appear to come in .32ACP and .380ACP.
- As Youradolt said, be sure you're getting the slide all the way back
- Control (e.g. ride) the slide as it comes forward while looking in the ejection port to see if you can see what is happening. Is the round catching anywhere in the feed process?
- Look how the the top round is situated in the magazine. Is it sticking up at an excessive angle, or is it nose down where it might catch on the front edge of the magazine? If the rounds look funny in the magazine examine the feed lips, make sure they're not bent or gouged. Also look at the follower; make sure it rises level and is oriented properly. Make sure you're loading the rounds properly, with the tail ends against the back of the magazine
- Try some different types of ammunition, FMJ v.s. HP v.s. SWC
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kevin9
NES Member
Is the top round pointing up before the action starts forward, or afterwards? If before then it sounds like a mag issue, or the slide is somehow catching the top round on the way back.
The first round in the mag slides up the feed ramp and (sometimes) get caught where the it is (almost) straight upwards (and not in the chamber at all). Othertimes, the round enters the chamber; but doesn't go all the way in.
I checked to see if the round would go in without the slide in place and there appears to be enough room around the round in the chamber for this not to happen at all.
???
No, the round is fully inserted in the mag and is seated correctly (from what I can tell).
When I get it back, I'll take a video of the action (if it still does it after getting it back from S&W).
Watch: I'll end up being me not letting the slide "hammer-back".
I checked to see if the round would go in without the slide in place and there appears to be enough room around the round in the chamber for this not to happen at all.
???
No, the round is fully inserted in the mag and is seated correctly (from what I can tell).
When I get it back, I'll take a video of the action (if it still does it after getting it back from S&W).
Watch: I'll end up being me not letting the slide "hammer-back".
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I have my PPK/S here now and if I "ride the slide" the exact thing you described happens to mine. If I let the slide snap forward, it feeds just fine every time. I should mention i an using FMJ ball ammo and I have never tried hollow points in this gun. Also, I had to put a lot of rounds through mine before it was as smooth as silk.
I had a Walther PPK and had the exact issues described here - especially with hollow points. When the gun was new, it was a frustration festival - especially chambering the first round from the magazine. What I did was chamber the first round manually, then insert the magazine and shoot it like crazy with FMJ only. After about 500 rounds, it smoothed up to the point of being extremely reliable and would eat nearly anything I fed it. The only reason I sold it, was because it was too small and bit me too often. Other than that, it was the little gun that could....
My PPK 22 is also jamming half way through a full magazine-I called Walther and they suggested I use either Remington or Winchester high velocity amo. He also suggested that I pull the slide back with "authority", and perhaps using some Rem Oil.
one-eyed Jack
Manufacturer
We can only guess at what the OP is using for ammo. Jack.
Now, after reading through all these posts, I understand what you're complaining about. I incorrectly assumed that the 'stovepipe' was occuring during shooting, not hand loading. Limpwristing, btw, is usually the cause of stovepipes in semi-autos. It is NOT the issue here, however, because you re not firing it.
So, just so I'm sure, the problem you're having is after you load the magazine and are attempting to rack your first round into the chamber by operating the slide. But instead of the cartridge properly sliding into the chamber, it's popping up vertically and "stovepiping" before it ever gets loaded. If this is the case, the it's most probably a problem with the mag lips. Even brand new this can be the problem.
Seems like as the slide begins its forward movement under spring power, the round is not being held in place properly and the lips of the magazine are allowing the round to "pop up" too early as it travels forward thus causing your problem. Just recently I've worked through this precise problem with another semi-auto I have. A simple, minor adjustment to the mag lips solved the problem.
A question, however: do you have a second magazine and if so does it perform the same way?
If you've only got the one mag, then all it will take is a very minor tweak of the lips of the magazine so the round stays horizontal longer. Use a solid set of needle nose pliers and slightly bend them in equally on both sides and then try it again. Also, I'd HIGHLY recommend that you purchase some snap-caps instead of using live rounds while you're working on this unless you're at the range. They feed identically to real rounds and are a lot safer.
The timing of the slide stripping off a round and moving it into the chamber as the magazine holds the round pointed correctly is critical as you've discovered. Even changing ammo types/brands can affect timing and is why some pistols handle one type of bullet differently than others like fmj to hollowpoints or even lead-nose bullets.
The alternative, however, is that since the gun is brandy new, you do take it back and have it adjusted at the shop or at S&W. This would be especially true if you have two mags and are experiencing this problem with both of them. It might be something more difficult to diagnose although you could just have two "bad" mags, too.
Good luck with that one. If it were me, and my one attempt at adjusting the lips on the mag wasn't successful, I think I'd send it back and have the factory fix it for me.
Rome
So, just so I'm sure, the problem you're having is after you load the magazine and are attempting to rack your first round into the chamber by operating the slide. But instead of the cartridge properly sliding into the chamber, it's popping up vertically and "stovepiping" before it ever gets loaded. If this is the case, the it's most probably a problem with the mag lips. Even brand new this can be the problem.
Seems like as the slide begins its forward movement under spring power, the round is not being held in place properly and the lips of the magazine are allowing the round to "pop up" too early as it travels forward thus causing your problem. Just recently I've worked through this precise problem with another semi-auto I have. A simple, minor adjustment to the mag lips solved the problem.
A question, however: do you have a second magazine and if so does it perform the same way?
If you've only got the one mag, then all it will take is a very minor tweak of the lips of the magazine so the round stays horizontal longer. Use a solid set of needle nose pliers and slightly bend them in equally on both sides and then try it again. Also, I'd HIGHLY recommend that you purchase some snap-caps instead of using live rounds while you're working on this unless you're at the range. They feed identically to real rounds and are a lot safer.
The timing of the slide stripping off a round and moving it into the chamber as the magazine holds the round pointed correctly is critical as you've discovered. Even changing ammo types/brands can affect timing and is why some pistols handle one type of bullet differently than others like fmj to hollowpoints or even lead-nose bullets.
The alternative, however, is that since the gun is brandy new, you do take it back and have it adjusted at the shop or at S&W. This would be especially true if you have two mags and are experiencing this problem with both of them. It might be something more difficult to diagnose although you could just have two "bad" mags, too.
Good luck with that one. If it were me, and my one attempt at adjusting the lips on the mag wasn't successful, I think I'd send it back and have the factory fix it for me.
Rome
