What if I own a 2nd house and want to buy a gun in that state?

[OMM 0000]

Say a MA resident also has a home in NH(I can dream, can’t I).
What would be required to purchase a non-MA handgun in NH and freely bring it back and forth?
Seems that trying that with an out-of-state NH pistol permit, and MA LTC, and a MA drivers lic wouldn’t work. They would want it sent to an MA FFL.
Since there is no resident pistol permit in NH, would you need to get a NH drivers license or state ID with your NH address?

 

[drgrant]

Say a MA resident also has a home in NH(I can dream, can’t I).
What would be required to purchase a non-MA handgun in NH and freely bring it back and forth?
Seems that trying that with an out-of-state NH LTC, and MA LTC, and a MA drivers lic wouldn’t work. They would want it sent to an MA FFL.
Since there is no resident LTC in NH, would you need to get a NH drivers license or state ID with your NH address?

You're making this a bigger problem than it actually isn't. People, that do this typically claim NH residence with (paperwork here, like a tax bill or other acceptable documentation)
and get it done. There are many dealers that won't touch it, and many that will easily do it. It has nothing to do with an "LTC" or lack thereof, either.

ETA: This isn't really a handgun compliance question, so I'm going to move it to gun laws... generically... somehow...

 

[Romokid]

I too have been looking at property in NH. I thought that if you had 2 residences in different states you had to claim one of them your primary residence. I'm hoping to retire in 8 years and my current house will be paid off in 3 so I would have a few years to save up. Just looking for something on the small size (1000 sf) but with like 5+ acres. I'd be interested to hear others that have done this already.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

I too have been looking at property in NH. I thought that if you had 2 residences in different states you had to claim one of them your primary residence. I'm hoping to retire in 8 years and my current house will be paid off in 3 so I would have a few years to save up. Just looking for something on the small size (1000 sf) but with like 5+ acres. I'd be interested to hear others that have done this already.

Then there is the whole "primary residence" vs "principle residence thing"

 

[JRT]

I too have been looking at property in NH. I thought that if you had 2 residences in different states you had to claim one of them your primary residence. I'm hoping to retire in 8 years and my current house will be paid off in 3 so I would have a few years to save up. Just looking for something on the small size (1000 sf) but with like 5+ acres. I'd be interested to hear others that have done this already.

All you need is proof of residence and a federally approved ID. I live in PA but I have a house in VT, when I buy a pistol in VT I use my passport and property tax bill. I’ve had shops not want to do it in the face of the facts but my experience has been most shops have no issue.

 

[LuvDog]

Show the free state FFL the instructions/questions on the back of the 4473

The ATF has a provision on the 4473 that speaks to dual state home ownership.

Question 18.b. Supplemental Documentation:
Licensees may accept a combination of valid government-issued documents to satisfy the identification document requirements of the law. The required valid government-issued photo identification document bearing the name, photograph, and date of birth of transferee/buyer may be supplemented by another valid, government-issued document showing the transferee’s/buyer’s residence address. This supplemental documentation should be recorded in question 18.b., with the issuing authority and type of identification presented.

For example, if the transferee/buyer has two States of residence and is trying to buy a handgun in State X, he may provide a driver’s license (showing his name, date of birth, and photograph) issued by State Y and another government-issued document(such as a tax document) from State X showing his residence address. A valid electronic document from a government website may be used as supplemental documentation provided it contains the transferee’s/buyer’s name and current residence address

 

[Knob Creek]

I know someone who had a vacation home in Maine and regularly bought guns at KTP by showing his tax bill.

 

[Tackdriver VillenTactical]

All you need is proof of residence and a federally approved ID. I live in PA but I have a house in VT, when I buy a pistol in VT I use my passport and property tax bill. I’ve had shops not want to do it in the face of the facts but my experience has been most shops have no issue.

PM me or reply here, but let me know the names and locations of Vermont shops that do this. Those are the ones I prefer to do business with. So far all but one I’ve spoken to are clueless on what the law allows.

Dave

 

[CrackPot]

Remember that an FFL has two requirements you must satisfy 1) government issued picture ID that proves you are who you say you are and 2) proof of residency

Many FFLs consider (1) and (2) to the same thing and require one correct ID and otherwise punt you to the curb. These FFLs should be shown your ass and given none of your money.

Residency is also as defined by the ATF, not by any state or other government entity. This is not about where you have your drivers license or car parked or kids go to school or where you pay income tax. This is residency as defined by the ATF (I cant say that enough).

Documentation for residency is something simple like a copy of your tax bill (with your name on it), water bill, electric bill, etc. If you have a second house, while you are at that house you are a resident of the state in which that house is located per the ATF.

Just find an FFL who understands this and buy away...

If you bring something back to MA, remember MA laws now apply. No assault weapons, no "large capacity feeding devices", and you must register the gun within 7 days. Or leave the fun stuff at your other house.

 

[JRT]

PM me or reply here, but let me know the names and locations of Vermont shops that do this. Those are the ones I prefer to do business with. So far all but one I’ve spoken to are clueless on what the law allows.

Dave

If you're near my place in Warren then go to Parros, they are in Waterbury. I always had a good experience and they know the ATF policy. In fact its on their webpage which is how I found them. The shop in Rutland refused to do a transfer even though I showed them the rules on the 4473.

PURCHASING A FIREARM | parros

www.parros.com

 

[Len-2A Training]

PM me or reply here, but let me know the names and locations of Vermont shops that do this. Those are the ones I prefer to do business with. So far all but one I’ve spoken to are clueless on what the law allows.

Dave

Sadly reading comprehension is not a requirement to be an FFL!

If you're near my place in Warren then go to Parros, they are in Waterbury. I always had a good experience and they know the ATF policy. In fact its on their webpage which is how I found them. The shop in Rutland refused to do a transfer even though I showed them the rules on the 4473.

PURCHASING A FIREARM | parros

www.parros.com

Parros are good people! I almost bought a rifle there but due to some missing key parts (Mauser missing forestock and need to replace stock) it wasn't worth the money. But I did buy some things there and chatted with them a bit when I was vacationing there a few years ago.

 

[KBCraig]

Sadly reading comprehension is not a requirement to be an FFL!

Yes, just ask anyone who's tried to buy a C&R while licensed as an 03 FFL.

 

[Bladerunner]

Buy your NH house and print out your tax bill.

Go to a gun store that believes in following the law and buy whatever you want.

Use your NH address on the 4473.

 

[42!]

Just my recent experience here in NH. I moved and my DL had my old address. Went onto my LGS, filled out the 4473 with my new address and naded them my DL, not really thinking about it. Got a big Nope. But it was explained that even with the wrong address the DL was good as the picture ID with DOB, but I would need some kind of gov document with my correct address. Tax bill, water bill, just about anything from a gov with my name and address.

If OP own property in NH it should be easy to come up with something the shop would be good with. Remember, this is NH, it's just not as big a deal up here.

 

[Texasgrillchef]

Say a MA resident also has a home in NH(I can dream, can’t I).
What would be required to purchase a non-MA handgun in NH and freely bring it back and forth?
Seems that trying that with an out-of-state NH pistol permit, and MA LTC, and a MA drivers lic wouldn’t work. They would want it sent to an MA FFL.
Since there is no resident pistol permit in NH, would you need to get a NH drivers license or state ID with your NH address?

im not sure about NH/Ma

But I can tell you I own Real estate in Texas, Utah and Oklahoma. I can technically claim residency status in all 3 states and get a Resident LTC from all three states. I could otherwise legally buy a firearm in all three states.

The problem lies in the fact that both Utah and Oklahoma,a have state income tax. If I claim residency status. Both states could claim I owe state income tax. I don’t want to pay state income tax. So I don’t claim residency status.

however I did buy a gun in Utah, they shipped it back to me in Texas. However it was a C&R gun, and I do have my C&R FFL.

Get your C&R FFL and if you buy one, it will help you obtain and receive those guns. Providing they are legal where you want to take/receive them.

 

[CrackPot]

im not sure about NH/Ma

But I can tell you I own Real estate in Texas, Utah and Oklahoma. I can technically claim residency status in all 3 states and get a Resident LTC from all three states. I could otherwise legally buy a firearm in all three states.

The problem lies in the fact that both Utah and Oklahoma,a have state income tax. If I claim residency status. Both states could claim I owe state income tax. I don’t want to pay state income tax. So I don’t claim residency status.

however I did buy a gun in Utah, they shipped it back to me in Texas. However it was a C&R gun, and I do have my C&R FFL.

Get your C&R FFL and if you buy one, it will help you obtain and receive those guns. Providing they are legal where you want to take/receive them.

You are seriously mixing up multiple separate issues.

Residency as considered by the ATF has NOTHING to do with residency as considered by any individual state for purposes of drivers license, carry permit, taxes, etc. Totally separate jurisdictions and laws and rules and...

You don't have to "claim" residency in a state to purchase firearms. You either are a resident or you are not per the ATF rules. If you own/rent property, while you are in that state, you ARE a resident of that state. You can be a resident of all 50 states as far as the ATF is concerned.

Major caveat here, most FFLs are morons and do not know or care about the law outside the simplest case of selling guns to resident with drivers licenses in that state. All other cases, most are just like "no, go away". With that said, what is permitted under federal law/regulation:

- if you have property in a state, while you are there you are a resident as determined by ATF regulation
- to purchase a gun you need two things, proof of identify and proof of residency
-- Most FFLs want one government ID that covers both but this is NOT necessary (but they can make up any rules they want)
-- Government issues picture ID to prove identify. It is fine that it is a MA drivers license and you are buying in Utah.
-- Proof of residency can be a water bill with your name on it, tax bill, lease, mortgage, etc.

That is it. You don't have to "claim" residency. You dont need to get a drivers license or carry permit or anything in that state. You just need to find an FFL that knows the rules.

 

[42!]

You are seriously mixing up multiple separate issues.

Residency as considered by the ATF has NOTHING to do with residency as considered by any individual state for purposes of drivers license, carry permit, taxes, etc. Totally separate jurisdictions and laws and rules and...

You don't have to "claim" residency in a state to purchase firearms. You either are a resident or you are not per the ATF rules. If you own/rent property, while you are in that state, you ARE a resident of that state. You can be a resident of all 50 states as far as the ATF is concerned.

Major caveat here, most FFLs are morons and do not know or care about the law outside the simplest case of selling guns to resident with drivers licenses in that state. All other cases, most are just like "no, go away". With that said, what is permitted under federal law/regulation:

- if you have property in a state, while you are there you are a resident as determined by ATF regulation
- to purchase a gun you need two things, proof of identify and proof of residency
-- Most FFLs want one government ID that covers both but this is NOT necessary (but they can make up any rules they want)
-- Government issues picture ID to prove identify. It is fine that it is a MA drivers license and you are buying in Utah.
-- Proof of residency can be a water bill with your name on it, tax bill, lease, mortgage, etc.

That is it. You don't have to "claim" residency. You dont need to get a drivers license or carry permit or anything in that state. You just need to find an FFL that knows the rules.

My experience, the want something from a gov. So water bill, tax bill yes, but lease, mortgage no.

 

[In God We Trust]

Follow up question:

Could you legally keep your car registered in NH while spending the 6 months in MA?

 

[Len-2A Training]

Follow up question:

Could you legally keep your car registered in NH while spending the 6 months in MA?

Not according to MGLs. They insist on MA plates/DL if you spend >x days (aggregate) in MA during a year. I think x=30 but haven't looked in a number of years. I once had a boss who flaunted this for a couple of years and finally got caught. He wasn't at work for a couple of days and then showed up with MA plates.

 

[Texasgrillchef]

Follow up question:

Could you legally keep your car registered in NH while spending the 6 months in MA?

There are ways to get around it, and down here it’s near impossible to get convicted of that type of ticket for various reasons. If you live in one state and work in another, if your a student, military, federal law enforcement etc..

It’s hard to explain to a cop who pulls you over why you have a DL from one state, and your car registered in another state. However that being said, I have a vehicle that stays at my Utah vacation home and never leaves the state. It has Utah tags on it. If pulled over, I tell the officer I live in Texas, my Utah home is a vacation home, and this vehicle never leaves Utah. However never had an issue either.

Most of what happens is how a cop views it, then the courts. But with the way the laws are written down here, and the fact that the prosecution has to prove beyond a reasonable doubt, it’s very hard to prove that you are required to get a dL, or vehicle registered.

 

[rali]

It’s hard to explain to a cop who pulls you over why you have a DL from one state, and your car registered in another state.

I used to have my car registered in VT and a MA DL. When stopped, I’d explain I was from VT but was stationed on a CG cutter in MA and had the cop ever tried to get into a bar in MA w/ out of state ID?

Bonus was that let me play the service card w/o being super obvious I was angling for a break.

 

[AHM]

If you bring something back to MA, remember MA laws now apply. No assault weapons, no "large capacity feeding devices", and you must register the gun transaction within 7 days.

^This.
(FTFY).

It’s hard to explain to a cop who pulls you over why you have a DL from one state, and your car registered in another state. However that being said, I have a vehicle that stays at my Utah vacation home and never leaves the state. It has Utah tags on it. If pulled over, I tell the officer I live in Texas, my Utah home is a vacation home, and this vehicle never leaves Utah. However never had an issue either.

You need this: pro-tip.

 

[connor]

Expanding on OP’s question, what if you buy an off roster gun and bring it back?

I own a home in fairyland, I buy a Staccato 2011 and some 10 rounders, can I efa-10 that when I come back to Herr Healy’s realm? It was described to me at a CCW course that the roster and most of the laws are aimed at what dealers can sell more than what people can own.

 

[Blackmore]

Follow up question:

Could you legally keep your car registered in NH while spending the 6 months in MA?

I had my car registered in NH and a NH DL for two years but worked fulltime in CT and "commuted" to my parents' house there every week. Got away with it until I moved here permamently. Of course that was 40 years ago and it probably wouldn't fly now.

 

[allen-1]

You are seriously mixing up multiple separate issues.

Residency as considered by the ATF has NOTHING to do with residency as considered by any individual state for purposes of drivers license, carry permit, taxes, etc. Totally separate jurisdictions and laws and rules and...

You don't have to "claim" residency in a state to purchase firearms. You either are a resident or you are not per the ATF rules. If you own/rent property, while you are in that state, you ARE a resident of that state. You can be a resident of all 50 states as far as the ATF is concerned.

Major caveat here, most FFLs are morons and do not know or care about the law outside the simplest case of selling guns to resident with drivers licenses in that state. All other cases, most are just like "no, go away". With that said, what is permitted under federal law/regulation:

- if you have property in a state, while you are there you are a resident as determined by ATF regulation
- to purchase a gun you need two things, proof of identify and proof of residency
-- Most FFLs want one government ID that covers both but this is NOT necessary (but they can make up any rules they want)
-- Government issues picture ID to prove identify. It is fine that it is a MA drivers license and you are buying in Utah.
-- Proof of residency can be a water bill with your name on it, tax bill, lease, mortgage, etc.

That is it. You don't have to "claim" residency. You dont need to get a drivers license or carry permit or anything in that state. You just need to find an FFL that knows the rules.

I have a house in Georgia, (primary residence), and a camper in Connecticut, (summer residence).
I have plenty of photo id's, starting with my passport.
I have tax bills for the last 10 years from the town of Bozrah, CT for my camper.

Connecticut requires that all sales be authorized through a phone to the SLFU.
If it's FFL selling to you, they provide FFL id and gun purchaser's permit id.
If person to person, you provide both permit ids.
If sale is authorized, they issue a number which goes on their form, (DPS-10?), and copies of that form go to purchaser, seller, SLFU and chief of police in purchaser's town.

I have not been able to purchase a handgun in CT since I moved to GA.
Despite the fact that I'm clearly legally able to according to Federal law.

 

[In God We Trust]

I had my car registered in NH and a NH DL for two years but worked fulltime in CT and "commuted" to my parents' house there every week. Got away with it until I moved here permamently. Of course that was 40 years ago and it probably wouldn't fly now.

Lots of people still do it. I live in an apartment close to the NH border and half my parking lot is NH plates. I guess it depends on how close you are.

 

[AHM]

I have not been able to purchase a handgun in CT since I moved to GA.

I'm sure this is an open running psychic wound with you.
And I bet you've got the full essay in some other thread.
But there's a gap in this narrative: precisely what ain't you got that CT wants?
Are they saying, "no CT drivers license => no guns?"
Are they saying, "no CT income tax return filing => no guns?"
What's the short version of the sticking point, for this thread?
Thanks in advance.

 

[allen-1]

I'm sure this is an open running psychic wound with you.
And I bet you've got the full essay in some other thread.
But there's a gap in this narrative: precisely what ain't you got that CT wants?
Are they saying, "no CT drivers license => no guns?"
Are they saying, "no CT income tax return filing => no guns?"
What's the short version of the sticking point, for this thread?
Thanks in advance.

Are they saying, "no CT drivers license => no guns?"

CT SLFU says I must have resident weapons permit to purchase handgun in CT.
They won't issue me one while I have a Georgia drivers license; they require me to have a CT drivers license.

 

[AHM]

CT SLFU says I must have resident weapons permit to purchase handgun in CT.
They won't issue me one while I have a Georgia drivers license; they require me to have a CT drivers license.

Thanks for the quick turnaround.

I'm not even gonna suggest wallhacks
because the NES hive mind
must already have beaten your situation to death.

 

[allen-1]

Thanks for the quick turnaround.

I'm not even gonna suggest wallhacks
because the NES hive mind
must already have beaten your situation to death.

I went to SLFU in Middletown.
So I could go through metal detector, then talk to someone who was behind full glass, (bulletproof??).
Who gave me 30 seconds, then called a supervisor, who gave me 30 seconds and told me that the only way I could buy a handgun in CT is if I had a resident weapons permit, and the only way they would issue me a resident permit was if I turned in my GA drivers license for a CT drivers license.

Neither of them wanted to hear a word about ATF residency definitions, neither of them cared that I had my Bozrah tax statements with me.

So, if I want a handgun in CT, I have it shipped to a FFL in GA and pick it up when I'm home.

Tedious.