Yeah, of course they won't. You moved to GA. So you can't get a resident weapons permit, since YOU MOVED TO GA. Get with the program man!
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What if I own a 2nd house and want to buy a gun in that state?
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Yeah, of course they won't. You moved to GA. So you can't get a resident weapons permit, since YOU MOVED TO GA. Get with the program man!
Two different types of "residency" between ATF and State. Each means a totally different thing.
AHM
NES Member
He maintains residences in two states.
Just like millions of snowbirds.
How hard is this to understand?
I have a house in MA and a house in NH and reside in both part of each week. I (and my Wive) have a Resident LTC and a Resident P/R License (NH) and both police chiefs are fully aware of my situation. I have a NH DL and have bought guns in NH and I have a few guns that I hope to sell FTF in MA as well.
It is up to the licensing authorities, they make the rules (although CT may be a state law) as well as the FFLs who definitely make up their own rules.
Nothing prohibits being a legal resident of 2 (or more) states. Fed law specifically calls this out as legal. Some states do, some don't, some chiefs do, some don't, some dealers do, some dealers don't.
Also, Chief Glidden lobbies chiefs/LOs hard to issue Resident LTCs to folks that have a Summer/Winter home in MA (part-time residents). I've heard him tell the ~200 chiefs/LOs this in his seminars numerous times.
Len,
You are a special case, not the norm. That you can not deny.
Me, as a NH resident, wouldn't have a snowballs chance in hell of getting a MA resident LTC and buying a pistol and you know it. That is reality.
The issues has nothing to do with a legal resident of 2 (or more) states. This is what MA folk seem to want to ignore. The issue has to do with the sale of firearms and different states.
AHM
NES Member
Waiting?
I thought you were still unconscious from being beaten about the head with a cluestick.
If you owned a residence in my town,
you would get a resident LTC-A/unrestricted.
No extra questions, no contact of references, no essays,
no mandatory club memberships, no articifial time limits on the age of your HFS certificate.
And there's nothing uncommon about my town.
There is a quirk of MGLs that makes it advantageous for PD to issue part-time residents a Resident LTC. If they refuse, the person can bring in low-capacity long guns WITHOUT any MA LTC/FID and even leave them in that MA house when they go back to their primary residence. Glidden's pitch is that if they do that (and yes it is legal), the local PD would have no clue that they have guns in MA . . . so if they issue the LTC, the PD assumes that the person has/keeps guns in said MA residence.
I'm not really a special case. A good friend did the same thing when he moved to Hilton Head but his Wife was still working and living in their MA home. He kept his MA LTC until he sold the house when his Wife retired. Glidden told me that he gave out plenty of Resident LTCs when he was chief in Lee, MA and previously Sgt in Nantucket . . . both places are generally mostly part-time residents.
allen-1
NES Member
Definition of residency for state income tax purposes and for ATF are very different things.
I meet the ATF definition of residency in two states; my primary home is in GA and my summer "home" is in CT.
I pay property taxes in CT and I live there for five months of the year.
Even better, I pay CT income taxes.
By ATF definition, I "reside" there and can purchase firearms.
CT says that I cannot purchase handguns in CT unless I have a CT driver's license.
That's NOT what ATF says.
I've been to the SLFU headquarters in Middletown to try to resolve this; that was an exercise in frustration.
AHM
NES Member
![[bs]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/046.gif "BS [bs]")
on this one.
AHM
NES Member
Kewl proof that snowbirds don't get resident LTCs.
JRT
NES Member
I'm definitely not a special case, I moved out of Massachusetts almost 15 years ago after being a resident for two years. I maintained ownership of a home in Mass and the chief (Two different chiefs actually) renewed my LTC three times while I carried a drivers license from VT and then PA. He said as long as I owned a home in Mass I was entitled to an LTC.
So whats the answer here for a MA resident with a second home in NH, are they able to purchase a handgun?
I think the answer is yes, as the NH dealer will require a tax bill proving you have a dwelling on the NH property.
Second question, can the MA resident who bought the gun in NH, bring the gun back to his primary residence in MA (assuming the gun meets the MA approved roster)?
I think the answer is yes, as the NH dealer will require a tax bill proving you have a dwelling on the NH property.
Second question, can the MA resident who bought the gun in NH, bring the gun back to his primary residence in MA (assuming the gun meets the MA approved roster)?
allen-1
NES Member
If the NH dealer accepts your tax bill and ID as proof of residency, then he'll sell you a handgun.
If you own a firearm, you can take that firearm into any state where you can legally posses it.
Massachusetts's approved roster applies to firearms that dealers can sell. It doesn't apply to your possession of specific firearm.
Massachusett law may prohibit certain firearms, that's a different topic entirely.
Somewhat comparable - I have a Glock G17 here in GA that has a threaded barrel for a compensator that I attach/remove. That gun is legal in GA, but it's not legal in CT because of the threaded barrel - banned under their "assault weapon/pistol" laws.
And before someone brings it up - FOPA has no applicability in either your or my situation. FOPA covers transport between states where you can legally possess said firearm.
I am going to make one more (last) shot at explaining this.
To start, we need to define a couple of things.
First, there are two sets of laws involved: federal law and state law. You need to meet the requirements (if any) of both.
Two, the words “resident” and “residence” are capable of two different meanings. One, which is “abode,” is any place you have the legal right of occupancy of and at which one can sleep. A person can have more than one simultaneous abode. The other, which is “domicile,” is the equivalent of citizenship, and you can only have one at any given time.
Everyone starts with a domicile by virtue of being born. One can change his domicile by (a) acquiring a different abode, (b) physically going there, and (c) going there with the present intention of remaining at that abode for the indefinite future.
An abode can be a house or condo that one owns (and hasn’t leased to someone else) or a house, condo or apartment that one leases for a term, but does not include a short-term hotel room or BnB.
Examples: You live in your only house in Massachusetts, have a Massachusetts driver’s license, and vote in Massachusetts. Massachusetts is your domicile. You then buy a summer house in New Hampshire, while retaining your ownership of the Massachusetts house. You spend each summer in New Hampshire but at all times you intend to go back to Massachusetts when the summer is over. You have a second abode in New Hampshire, but Massachusetts at all times remains your domicile.
Or you live in your only house (probably parents’ house) in Massachusetts, have a Massachusetts driver’s license and (if old enough) vote in Massachusetts. Massachusetts is your domicile. Then you enroll in college in Maine. Each fall you go up to Maine for school, living either in a college dorm or an off-campus apartment you rent. At all times you intend to go back to Massachusetts at the end of the school year, and after graduation. You have a Maine abode (at least during the school year), but Massachusetts remains at all times your domicile.
OK, now lets apply the foregoing.
Federal law requires that you may purchase a handgun from an 01 FFL only in your state of “residence.” Whatever Congress may have intended when it passed this law eons ago, the BATFE, which enforces it, has interpreted “residence” for federal Gun Control Act purposes, to mean “abode,” not “domicile.” So, in our two examples above, you may in compliance with federal law purchase a handgun from a NH 01FFL during the summer while you are at your summer residence (first example) or a Maine 01FFL during the school year while you are in your campus or off-campus abode.
Though as a practical matter, some 01FFLs don’t understand this, so you may have to convince them of the fact that “residence” for federal handgun purchase purposes means abode and not domicile. And, since you won’t have an abode-state driver’s license or voter registration, you have to have some other way of proving the non-domiciliary abode. Real estate tax bills and utility bills in your name with the abode address are commonly used. Whether the abode-state 01FFL will accept them is up to him.
As for state law, I am not aware of any limitation in Massachusetts, New Hampshire or Maine law that limits one to purchasing in those states only if you are a domiciliary thereof. (However, I am not licensed to practice in New Hampshire or Maine.) Massachusetts does limit you to purchasing a handgun in Massachusetts only either (a) from a firearms dealer who has a Massachusetts state-issued firearms dealer’s license or (b) from a non-dealer who is also a Massachusetts domiciliary.
Not covered by the foregoing is the question of “resident” versus “non-resident” licenses to carry. Some states require one to be a domiciliary in order to obtain a “resident” LTC or equivalent. Some do not. Some states don’t even distinguish between “resident” and “non-resident” LTCs or equivalent. I say again, that issue is not covered here.
To start, we need to define a couple of things.
First, there are two sets of laws involved: federal law and state law. You need to meet the requirements (if any) of both.
Two, the words “resident” and “residence” are capable of two different meanings. One, which is “abode,” is any place you have the legal right of occupancy of and at which one can sleep. A person can have more than one simultaneous abode. The other, which is “domicile,” is the equivalent of citizenship, and you can only have one at any given time.
Everyone starts with a domicile by virtue of being born. One can change his domicile by (a) acquiring a different abode, (b) physically going there, and (c) going there with the present intention of remaining at that abode for the indefinite future.
An abode can be a house or condo that one owns (and hasn’t leased to someone else) or a house, condo or apartment that one leases for a term, but does not include a short-term hotel room or BnB.
Examples: You live in your only house in Massachusetts, have a Massachusetts driver’s license, and vote in Massachusetts. Massachusetts is your domicile. You then buy a summer house in New Hampshire, while retaining your ownership of the Massachusetts house. You spend each summer in New Hampshire but at all times you intend to go back to Massachusetts when the summer is over. You have a second abode in New Hampshire, but Massachusetts at all times remains your domicile.
Or you live in your only house (probably parents’ house) in Massachusetts, have a Massachusetts driver’s license and (if old enough) vote in Massachusetts. Massachusetts is your domicile. Then you enroll in college in Maine. Each fall you go up to Maine for school, living either in a college dorm or an off-campus apartment you rent. At all times you intend to go back to Massachusetts at the end of the school year, and after graduation. You have a Maine abode (at least during the school year), but Massachusetts remains at all times your domicile.
OK, now lets apply the foregoing.
Federal law requires that you may purchase a handgun from an 01 FFL only in your state of “residence.” Whatever Congress may have intended when it passed this law eons ago, the BATFE, which enforces it, has interpreted “residence” for federal Gun Control Act purposes, to mean “abode,” not “domicile.” So, in our two examples above, you may in compliance with federal law purchase a handgun from a NH 01FFL during the summer while you are at your summer residence (first example) or a Maine 01FFL during the school year while you are in your campus or off-campus abode.
Though as a practical matter, some 01FFLs don’t understand this, so you may have to convince them of the fact that “residence” for federal handgun purchase purposes means abode and not domicile. And, since you won’t have an abode-state driver’s license or voter registration, you have to have some other way of proving the non-domiciliary abode. Real estate tax bills and utility bills in your name with the abode address are commonly used. Whether the abode-state 01FFL will accept them is up to him.
As for state law, I am not aware of any limitation in Massachusetts, New Hampshire or Maine law that limits one to purchasing in those states only if you are a domiciliary thereof. (However, I am not licensed to practice in New Hampshire or Maine.) Massachusetts does limit you to purchasing a handgun in Massachusetts only either (a) from a firearms dealer who has a Massachusetts state-issued firearms dealer’s license or (b) from a non-dealer who is also a Massachusetts domiciliary.
Not covered by the foregoing is the question of “resident” versus “non-resident” licenses to carry. Some states require one to be a domiciliary in order to obtain a “resident” LTC or equivalent. Some do not. Some states don’t even distinguish between “resident” and “non-resident” LTCs or equivalent. I say again, that issue is not covered here.
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But you did not define the difference between principal and primary residence ![[rofl]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/013.gif "ROFL [rofl]")
Let it go Rob.But you did not define the difference between principal and primary residence
I think that RKG's explaination was very clear to the point of purchasing a handgun . . . and only that issue.
The more that we, who have some knowledge of the subject matter, nit-pick minor but irrelevant details, the more that we confuse most of the good folks here on NES.
Please let's not do this.
Thanks,
Len
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An important detail:
MA seems to be unique (or in the minority) in that all you need to effect a purchase is a MA LTC.
Many other states (I think NH is one) require a driving license or other proof of residency to sell you a handgun.
So if you have your drivers license in NH, and a MA LTC with a MA address, and really keep both addresses, you should have no problems.
MA seems to be unique (or in the minority) in that all you need to effect a purchase is a MA LTC.
Many other states (I think NH is one) require a driving license or other proof of residency to sell you a handgun.
So if you have your drivers license in NH, and a MA LTC with a MA address, and really keep both addresses, you should have no problems.
I'll try not to Bump the issue.
Not sure what difference that makes, if MA didnt have LTCs you'd still need something to put on the counter, and it would likely be a DL anyways.
Yes, an NH PRL (tissue paper or otherwise) doesnt work to buy something, but not sure why anyone would think it would, its not exactly a form of solid identification.
ETA: I would bet in most of the NICS bypass states the carry license w/photo alone works the same way an MA LTC does, wrt residency etc.
You won't have a problem buying weapons. You can show the documents with the required residence registration on them. As said above, most stores have no problem selling guns this way. If in doubt, I advise you to contact people who know the law at a professional level. I believe that in such cases, it is best to immediately contact the experts because working with the laws requires a certain knowledge. For example, I solve all my problems with my home only with specialists who understand real estate laws. This way, I can be sure that everything goes according to plan.
allen-1
NES Member
GA - I can transfer firearm privately, no paperwork. If I transfer to/from FFL, 4473 is required. If I have a GA weapons permit, no NICS required. If no GA weapons permit, transfer can take place, but requires NICS.
CT - I can transfer firearm privately, weapons permit required, SLFU authorization required, DPS-3C required - copies to seller, buyer, SLFU and COP of buyer. If I transfer to/from FFL, 4473, permit and SLFU authorization all required. I'm fairly certain that SLFU is running NICS before providing authorization.
CT SLFU doesn't agree with ATF residency definition. CT SLFU says if you want a resident permit, you must have CT driver's license.
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