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What is your "Long Range" Rifle Platform?

cathouse01 said:
If you’re going for precision, you do NOT want a Barrett semi-auto. I have an M82A1 and it is minute of car engine at 600 yards (not really that bad, but 2 MOA groups is a good day with good ammo). I mean, the whole damn barrel moves back almost 2 inches with each shot. The bolt version is much more accurate, though match grade ammo for .50 BMG is going to cost you around $7 per round. Most competitive .50 cal shooters handload to get exactly what they want.

If you want a reasonably accurate .50 BMG semi-auto you would need to look at the Serbu BFG-50A, but that’s on a three year backorder.

Go to the Fifty Caliber Shooters Association website (https://www.1moa.org) if you want to see what all the competitive .50 cal shooters are using. They are almost all bolt action like this:
View attachment 609388
And I particularly like this guys bolt assist tool:
Click to expand...

The M95 is a mag-fed bolt action Barrett. Supposed to be more accurate than the semi-auto variants. I know ammo is expensive. Not really worried about it. Buying a .50 is like buying a Hummer… you don’t even think about the cost of gas, just the price of doing business to drive something like that.
 
AHM said:
69507d8bb52894edbf5b7a83481dde11.jpg
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I guess I should have said in comparison to 308 and 6.5 like others have been discussing😂
 
andrew1220 said:
If you’re looking for a precision rifle I wouldn’t get a 50 cal rifle. Good at destroying cars etc but last I knew 50 BMG is not an ultra accurate round. Not to mention it’s expensive to shoot even if you reload. Of course it’s a big boomer which is fun 😂
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Actually, the .50 BMG can be a very accurate round. Just not the standard bulk M33 ball from a Barrett M82A1. For example, in July, 2009 Lee Rasmussen shot a 1.9557” 5 shot group at 1000 yards in the Fifty Cal. Shooter Assn. Championships. That’s better than a .2 MOA 5 shot group.

Rasmussen Shoots 1.9557" group at 1000 yards, and sets Four 50-Caliber World Records « Daily Bulletin

In a remarkable display of long-range marksmanship, legendary 50-Caliber shooter Lee Rasmussen set four (4) new 1000-yard world records at the recent Fifty Caliber Shooters Assn. (FCSA) Championships, held at the NRA Whittington Center over the 4th of July weekend.
bulletin.accurateshooter.com bulletin.accurateshooter.com
 
Aren't those remingtons, now known as the R2Mi but have been around for awhile under different names and didn't start as a remington even, supposed to be a tack driver of a 50bmg?
 
1651215954816.png

The range officer bitched too much when I backed it into the 100 yard range. Now I just "hit the range" from my backyard.

TUSA sells the ammo. UPS just drops an unmarked semi trailer by my front door.

Bore brushes are pricey. Uses a lot of Hoppes 9 to clean 'er up.

I keep a .40 in the tool box in case the work gets in close and dirty.
 
AHM said:
69507d8bb52894edbf5b7a83481dde11.jpg
Click to expand...
Hathcock used a M2 set on single-fire with a Unertl 8x scope mounted on it to make a record longest sniper shot in history (up until that time). 2500 yards, or something like that? But even he recognized in a later interview that it was pretty much shit luck. He used it because it was the only thing they had that would reach out that far.

I had a conversation a while ago with a SF sniper who said they really had no confidence in first-round hits with the .50's they had. He was a big fan of the 338LM.
 
PatMcD said:
Whoa, whoa, whoa. I thought this entire discussion thread was about target shooting: paper (or steel if that's the way you swing).
If you are under the impression that the .308 is no good out to 1000 yards, I think you'd be pleasantly surprised by what it can do.
If i was investing in a dedicated 1000 yard target rifle and i wasnt bound by competition rules; yes, I would probably choose something different. But, I'm pretty sure I have said it before, if a person already has a 308, there's no reason they can't use it to the limits of their ability at 1000.

And i think your ballistic charts need adjusting. Guys shooting the 308 at 1000 are using either the 155 Palma bullet at close to 3000fps or a heavier 175-180 at 2900. The 168 is an intermediate bullet: it'll work, kind of, at 600, but its better at 3. Forget it at 1000.
Inches of drop don't mean much; that's why the sights have knobs.
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Well stated. 155's and 30"+ of barrel length and 1k is certainly doable. Im running the Lapua Scenars .
 
PatMcD said:
Hathcock used a M2 set on single-fire with a Unertl 8x scope mounted on it to make a record longest sniper shot in history (up until that time). 2500 yards, or something like that? But even he recognized in a later interview that it was pretty much shit luck. He used it because it was the only thing they had that would reach out that far.

I had a conversation a while ago with a SF sniper who said they really had no confidence in first-round hits with the .50's they had. He was a big fan of the 338LM.
Click to expand...
Is that more because the M82/M107 platform is semi-auto and not particularly accurate as far as precision long range platforms go? Barrett has had the MRAD in 338LM for a while now, along with the M95 bolt action 50 and M99, so there are more accurate platforms available within the Barrett lineup. Not sure why the M82/107 was the go-to for the Army...

 
mav said:
Is that more because the M82/M107 platform is semi-auto and not particularly accurate as far as precision long range platforms go? Barrett has had the MRAD in 338LM for a while now, along with the M95 bolt action 50 and M99, so there are more accurate platforms available within the Barrett lineup. Not sure why the M82/107 was the go-to for the Army...

Click to expand...
To tell you the truth, it was probably 6-7 years ago in a brief target pit conversation out at Camp Perry. I don’t think I asked him specifics on rifles because I didn't really know what they used (and still don't). But I do distinctly remember him not having a lot of good things to say about the 50.
 
PatMcD said:
To tell you the truth, it was probably 6-7 years ago in a brief target pit conversation out at Camp Perry. I don’t think I asked him specifics on rifles because I didn't really know what they used (and still don't). But I do distinctly remember him not having a lot of good things to say about the 50.
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As far as I know, the Army has never deployed a .50 BMG “sniper” rifle. The .50 BMG Barrett M82A1/M107 semi-autos are technically anti-material rifles. They did evaluate some .50 BMG bolt actions for actual sniper use, but determined that .50 BMG was way overkill for eliminating “high value” targets at a distance, particularly given the weight disadvantage of both the rifle and the ammo. Given that a 6.5 Creedmoor will retain over 1400 FPS and over 625 ft. lbs. of energy at 1000 yards, more than enough to be lethal, you certainly don’t “need” a .50 BMG.

There are stories of guys using a M2 machine gun in single shot mode as a “sniper” rifle, but I don’t think that's a standard practice.

And just to add to my previous post on the accuracy (I guess it is technically the precision, since we are talking just group sizes) of the .50, the smallest 1000 yard 5 shot group ever recorded was shot by Mike Wilson in 2018. It measured 1.068” (0.102 MOA) and he used a 6mmBR Ackley Improved (looks like you made a good choice with your 6mm Dasher @paul73). That’s a bit over half the size of the record setting .50 BMG group. (Of course, if you measure the group size in caliber widths, the fifty group was slightly under 4 calibers wide while the 6mm group was a bit over 4.5 calibers wide;).)
 
cathouse01 said:
As far as I know, the Army has never deployed a .50 BMG “sniper” rifle. The .50 BMG Barrett M82A1/M107 semi-autos are technically anti-material rifles. They did evaluate some .50 BMG bolt actions for actual sniper use, but determined that .50 BMG was way overkill for eliminating “high value” targets at a distance, particularly given the weight disadvantage of both the rifle and the ammo. Given that a 6.5 Creedmoor will retain over 1400 FPS and over 625 ft. lbs. of energy at 1000 yards, more than enough to be lethal, you certainly don’t “need” a .50 BMG.

There are stories of guys using a M2 machine gun in single shot mode as a “sniper” rifle, but I don’t think that's a standard practice.

And just to add to my previous post on the accuracy (I guess it is technically the precision, since we are talking just group sizes) of the .50, the smallest 1000 yard 5 shot group ever recorded was shot by Mike Wilson in 2018. It measured 1.068” (0.102 MOA) and he used a 6mmBR Ackley Improved (looks like you made a good choice with your 6mm Dasher @paul73). That’s a bit over half the size of the record setting .50 BMG group. (Of course, if you measure the group size in caliber widths, the fifty group was slightly under 4 calibers wide while the 6mm group was a bit over 4.5 calibers wide;).)
Click to expand...

The one person i know who worked in the field for a good part of a career, seemed to prefer 300 winmag over anything.
Being a guy in his 50s maybe that's all changed.
 
PatMcD said:
I think the 300WM is pretty much standard.
Click to expand...
The M2010 has been the Army’s standard sniper rifle since April of 2014, when the last of the old M24s were phased out. The M2010 is designed around the long Remington Bolt Action, so it can take cartridges up to 3.34”. It uses the .300 Win Mag. In 2021 the Army announced it was replacing the M2010 with the Barrett MK22 MRAD (Multi-Roll Adaptive Design). The MK22 will be supplied with three barrel choices: 7.62X51 NATO (.308), .300 Norma Magnum and .338 Norma Magnum.

Here is the some detail on the new contract: New Army sniper weapon system contract awarded to Barrett Firearms.

Note that they do refer to the Barrett M107 by its official Army designation "Long Range Sniper Rifle, Caliber .50, M107”, but in normal writing, even the Army refers to it as an “anti-material” rifle "designed to effectively engage and defeat materiel targets such as aircraft (parked), communications targets, computers, intelligence sites, radar sites, ammunition depots, oil stores as well as lightly armored vehicles.” It also is now used for EOD (Explosive Ordinance Disposal) since it gives good standoff distance along with delivering enough energy to trigger even heavy ordinance.
 
cathouse01 said:
The M2010 has been the Army’s standard sniper rifle since April of 2014, when the last of the old M24s were phased out. The M2010 is designed around the long Remington Bolt Action, so it can take cartridges up to 3.34”. It uses the .300 Win Mag. In 2021 the Army announced it was replacing the M2010 with the Barrett MK22 MRAD (Multi-Roll Adaptive Design). The MK22 will be supplied with three barrel choices: 7.62X51 NATO (.308), .300 Norma Magnum and .338 Norma Magnum.

Here is the some detail on the new contract: New Army sniper weapon system contract awarded to Barrett Firearms.

Note that they do refer to the Barrett M107 by its official Army designation "Long Range Sniper Rifle, Caliber .50, M107”, but in normal writing, even the Army refers to it as an “anti-material” rifle "designed to effectively engage and defeat materiel targets such as aircraft (parked), communications targets, computers, intelligence sites, radar sites, ammunition depots, oil stores as well as lightly armored vehicles.” It also is now used for EOD (Explosive Ordinance Disposal) since it gives good standoff distance along with delivering enough energy to trigger even heavy ordinance.
Click to expand...
a 300wm is a great caliber, but, the 70gr of powder loads is just too rich for me. :)
a whole pound can for 100 rounds. crazy.
 
PatMcD said:
I think the 300WM is pretty much standard.
Click to expand...
So was 45ACP.
300WM is an old cartridge that quires a long action to fire. It's belted because they could make the stronger cartridge. It kicks like a mule. The only reason people still use it is that Army still uses it. The army is anything but innovative. they "upgraded" a 80-year-old cartridge(45ACP) to a 90-year-old cartridge(9mm). Primary rifle ammo is a 65-year-old cartridge. The primary sniper rifle ammo is 70 years old.

We have 6.5 Grendel, 6.5 Creedmoor, and 6.5 PRC, yet the Army wants to go to a 6.8!? Brilliant they are not.

Today, a 6.5 CM or 6.5 PRC can run circles around 300WM. The number of benefits is enough to consider switching:
  • They kick a LOT less. A lot. Follow-up shots are a lot easier with 6.5 wonders than WM.
  • Cartridges are lighter which makes it easier to lug them around
  • Cartridge achieves virtually identical performance 300WM with 10gr less of powder.
  • They're straight wall cartridge which means much, much easier reloading
You can argue that if you know what you're doing, 300WM recoil can be managed quite easily. This is the same argument 45 cal folks have for 9mm. Yet, 9mm owns the pistol round crown for over a century now.

Beyond CM and PRC, we have 6ARC which can do everything 308 can with better ballistics, MUCH lighter weight, and it still fits into AR-15. There is no longer a need to carry two rifles. Two uppers are enough. That's major weight savings.

ShootersCalculator.com | Ballistic Trajectory Calculator

Calculates the ballistic trajectory of a bullet fired from a rifle, handgun or other firearm. Produces a ballistic trajectory chart and table that shows the drop, velocity, kinetic energy, windage, and trajectory of a bullet.
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Tallahassee said:
300 win mag is my first true love.
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I have a R700 Sondero in 300WM and it's my preferred choice for 1000 yds. It's just better suited vs my Savage 12 FTR in .308. I can get to 1K with my 308 but I got to really push my bullets to over 2900 fps and it is tough on the barrel throat. I have a great "mild" 300WM load using the 208 Amax and it just carves through the wind.
 
mav said:
This is what I plan on picking up some time in the not-to-distant future. While I prefer semi-auto, the cost is somewhat prohibitive, so the model 95 fits the bill.:
barrett.net

Model 95™ - Barrett Firearms

barrett.net barrett.net

This is what I currently use though my range only goes out to 400 yards. I'd like to find a place to shoot out to 800+. DPMS AR10 .308 custom build with DPMS Match 22" barrel, PWS FSC muzzle brake, Geissele trigger, Magpul stock and grip, BCM charging handle and Trijicon Accupoint 9x40 scope. It started life in the pic below...

View attachment 609303

View attachment 609311
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What color is that?
 
Just noticed that Barrett produced a featureless M82A1 in .416 Barrett for the CA market. Just shows as bad as MA is, CA can be worse. I mean, in MA you can own an M82A1 with just a FID since it is not considered a large capacity semi-auto (mag only holds 10 rounds). Kind of an abomination with that featureless grip.
17462 small.jpg
 
M1911a1g17 said:
@mav sorry I am not used to the quote thingy. I meant the green on your rifle there.
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Sorry, I thought you were talking about the M95. The AR10 upper/lower I had ceracoated in Flat Dark Earth and went the same with the stock/pistol grip and rails. It’s actually an old pic and the color might be off, but it’s FDE, not green.

If you’re talking specifically about the green strip on the scope, that’s a Trijicon Accupoint with fiber optic/tritium crosshairs. The green strip allows sunlight to illuminate the reticle via fiber-optics.
 
Sweeney said:
I have an FN SPR in 308 lying around when I want to play sniper. It's adorned with a Leupold 3.5-10 scope and Accu-Tac bipod. I get very tight 1 shot groups. It has a 1 in 12 twist so I usually load cotton balls. I plan to heat the barrel and twist it from the muzzle end to tighten and make progressive rifling.
View attachment 607202
Click to expand...

Those are awesome guns, dont get rid of it. I have an A3G that has been sitting in my safe for a few years glassless because i robbed the mk4 i had on it for my 107 temporarily forever. Someday ill put a mk5hd or nf beast on the 50 and get that A3G up and shooting again, that bitch will shoot quarter minute all day. Awesome plain jane rifle.
 
cathouse01 said:
If you’re going for precision, you do NOT want a Barrett semi-auto. I have an M82A1 and it is minute of car engine at 600 yards (not really that bad, but 2 MOA groups is a good day with good ammo). I mean, the whole damn barrel moves back almost 2 inches with each shot. The bolt version is much more accurate, though match grade ammo for .50 BMG is going to cost you around $7 per round. Most competitive .50 cal shooters handload to get exactly what they want.

If you want a reasonably accurate .50 BMG semi-auto you would need to look at the Serbu BFG-50A, but that’s on a three year backorder.

Go to the Fifty Caliber Shooters Association website (https://www.1moa.org) if you want to see what all the competitive .50 cal shooters are using. They are almost all bolt action like this:
View attachment 609388
And I particularly like this guys bolt assist tool:
Click to expand...


My 107 shoots about a minute to minute and a half with garbage m33 ball. The hornady 750gr amax stuff is much more consistent. I look at my 50 more like a poor mans non recoilless recoilless rifle, minute of critical infrastructure is all i ask for.
 

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