What would you do in selecting the .223 starting load?

[ttk9801]

OK, I am interested in learning what methodologies and thought processes everyone use to determine the starting load given some available information.

Bullet: Everglades .223 Rem 55gr FMJ with cannelure BT (V2)
Power: H335 (let's assume this is the power of choice regardless it's good or not)
Rifle: Remington 700 SPS .223 rem, 26" heavy barrel, 1 in 12" twist rate

Below is a list of load that I collected from various sources:

Hornady Handbook 4th Ed. (DOC-16, pg117): MIN=21.4/2800, MAX=25.4/3200 (for #2267 FMJ-BT w/c)
Handloads.com (DOC-31): 25.5/unknown, OAL=2.245”, CCI SRM premier (guest source)
Hodgdon Online Manual: OAL=2.200”,MIN=23.0/3018fps/40800cup, MAX=25.3/3202fps/49300cup (55gr SPR SP)
Hodgdon Online Manual: OAL=2.180”,MIN=21.3/2920fps/48900psi, MAX=22.7/3063fps/53000psi (55gr BAR TSX FB)
Hodgdon Online Manual: OAL=2.220”,MIN=21.4/2969fps/47000psi, MAX=22.8/3099fps/51800psi (55gr SFIRE)
LEE Manual, 55gr Jacked, MIN=23gr/3018fps, MAX=25.3gr/3203fps
LEE Manual, 55gr BAR X Solid, MIN=21.3gr/2920fps, MAX=22.7gr/3063fps
Spear Manual, 55gr FMJ BT, MIN=24.0gr/2805, MAX=26.0gr/3092
H335 bottle label, Spr Sp, 25.3gr/3203fps (does not show min/max)

I noticed that for different bullets in above list, some of the starting load is more than another's max load.

Thanks for showing your thought process and methodologies in working out a starting load for the first range visit. Also when start load is selected and what is the measure for selecting the best load data? Other than best the grouping, is there a favorable velocity range that the .223 needs to satisfy?

cc: @Mountain

 

[snd1t]

Folk have been shooting 25gr of H335 under a 55gr FMJ pretty much forever.

Get a chrono and use it to help figure out SD to complement whatever you're seeing for accuracy and go up/down from there

As always look for signs of pressure on brass/primers

 

[gerrycaruso]

I start in the middle of the range. Then I load a few slightly above and slightly below. I continue in whatever direction is more accurate. If I don't see a difference in accuracy, I always figure less is better than more.

 

[greencobra]

I start in the middle of the range. Then I load a few slightly above and slightly below. I continue in whatever direction is more accurate. If I don't see a difference in accuracy, I always figure less is better than more.

pretty much exactly what i do. when i was a real rookie reloader, i did start at the bottom and work it up...until i got the hang of the craft.

 

[Mountain]

I start in the middle of the range. Then I load a few slightly above and slightly below. I continue in whatever direction is more accurate. If I don't see a difference in accuracy, I always figure less is better than more.

This is more or less what I do, unless someone has a similar upper / barrel and has pet load for the same powder and projectile. Of course if that pet load is on the edge or beyond the max/min's, I will ignore it and start closer to the middle. While it is possible I might work my way up to 25.0 grains, no way would I start there- so that's a good example of one I would ignore as a starting load. It might end up being a good load- just don't start there. Side note: I have found a very high correlation between flattened primers and/or bulged or blown cases and jackasses leaving their brass for others to pick up. The same dummies who can't follow safe reloading practices can't be bothered to pick up after themselves.

You didn't mention the platform. AR-15? You want enough juice to cycle reliably and there is no need to hammer your rifle with stout loads.

One of my methodologies is to go to the powder manufacturer for the load data. H335 I'd go with the Hodgdon data and ignore the others.

Also- depending upon how close / tight is the throat for your chamber, I'd make sure that you are not jamming bullets into the lands at a given OAL. Yes, there are some accuracy loads that call for engagement with the lands- but you don't want to do that when checking out a new load and for general range plinking and especially self defense loads- no need to do that.

 

[ttk9801]

This is more or less what I do, unless someone has a similar upper / barrel and has pet load for the same powder and projectile. Of course if that pet load is on the edge or beyond the max/min's, I will ignore it and start closer to the middle. While it is possible I might work my way up to 25.0 grains, no way would I start there- so that's a good example of one I would ignore as a starting load. It might end up being a good load- just don't start there. Side note: I have found a very high correlation between flattened primers and/or bulged or blown cases and jackasses leaving their brass for others to pick up. The same dummies who can't follow safe reloading practices can't be bothered to pick up after themselves.

You didn't mention the platform. AR-15? You want enough juice to cycle reliably and there is no need to hammer your rifle with stout loads.

One of my methodologies is to go to the powder manufacturer for the load data. H335 I'd go with the Hodgdon data and ignore the others.

Also- depending upon how close / tight is the throat for your chamber, I'd make sure that you are not jamming bullets into the lands at a given OAL. Yes, there are some accuracy loads that call for engagement with the lands- but you don't want to do that when checking out a new load and for general range plinking and especially self defense loads- no need to do that.

I edited the original post to include the rifle info (Remington 700 SPS .223 rem, 26"). Thanks for the perspective and info!

 

[50wt]

Load to mag length, start with 22gr of H335 and work up from there. My first 223 loads were with 23.5 of H335 and once confirmed it would cycle in a carbine gas gun, I went back home and made 1k more. It's slow and not a super accurate round, but I dont care. its for the range . My most recent 223 loads were with Varget and a recipe found online and the numbers were quite impressive.


Here is a link that is sure to provide the info you seek if your not satisfied with what's already been posted.

.223 - 5.56

Like Dave that bullet did not like my 1-9 twist Savage (boo hiss ). Oddly though 77SMKs shot just fine. This was at or just above sea level with Varget. YMMV.

www.snipershide.com

 

[Knob Creek]

I believe the Twist Rate in that rifle is 1:12 so if you stay with that bullet weight it would be fine for 55Gr. bullets. Go any heavier that that and accuracy will likely suffer.

 

[Mountain]

I believe the Twist Rate in that rifle is 1:12 so if you stay with that bullet weight it would be fine for 55Gr. bullets. Go any heavier that that and accuracy will likely suffer.

Early were 1:12, later ones 1:9. I agree with you that if 1:12 the projectiles should be 55 gr or lighter. If 1:9, it should be OK up to 69 gr.

 

[snd1t]

H335 I'd go with the Hodgdon data and ignore the others.

The problem with their load data is that its for 223 loads/pressure

Thats fine if you're shooting 223

If you're shooting an AR chambered in 223 wylde or 556 you have a ways to go before you would normally see signs of pressure.

 

[DW357]

Folk have been shooting 25gr of H335 under a 55gr FMJ pretty much forever.

Get a chrono and use it to help figure out SD to complement whatever you're seeing for accuracy and go up/down from there

As always look for signs of pressure on brass/primers

This. Works well in both of my ARs

 

[gerrycaruso]

I have a 223 with a 1 in 12 twist. It shoots 55 grain OK but anything heavier is all over the paper. It does very well with 52 grain SMK.

 

[Road_Clam]

a 1-12 is a very slow twist for 223. O/p might be able to shoot 62's . My early 1990's Savage 110FP Tactical long action 223 has a slowish 1-9 and I can get away with 69gr match HPBT's but I tried 77's and they were showing some signs of instability at 600 yds . 69gr Nosler CC's , 24.2 gr of Varget at 2760 fps is the load for my 110FP

 

[PatMcD]

In a bolt rifle, I'd start at 25 no problem.
I've always found the 223 likes it hot.

 

[xtry51]

I would load 24.5 through 25.5 in .2gr increments at mag length (2.250) and see if you find a node while watching primers for pressure signs.

 

[pastera]

I believe my go to for 55g H335 I'd 24.2gn.
The mini-14 doesn't launch cases into orbit and runs fine the ARs.

 

[mac1911]

OK, I am interested in learning what methodologies and thought processes everyone use to determine the starting load given some available information.

Bullet: Everglades .223 Rem 55gr FMJ with cannelure BT (V2)
Power: H335 (let's assume this is the power of choice regardless it's good or not)
Rifle: Remington 700 SPS .223 rem, 26"

Below is a list of load that I collected from various sources:

Hornady Handbook 4th Ed. (DOC-16, pg117): MIN=21.4/2800, MAX=25.4/3200 (for #2267 FMJ-BT w/c)
Handloads.com (DOC-31): 25.5/unknown, OAL=2.245”, CCI SRM premier (guest source)
Hodgdon Online Manual: OAL=2.200”,MIN=23.0/3018fps/40800cup, MAX=25.3/3202fps/49300cup (55gr SPR SP)
Hodgdon Online Manual: OAL=2.180”,MIN=21.3/2920fps/48900psi, MAX=22.7/3063fps/53000psi (55gr BAR TSX FB)
Hodgdon Online Manual: OAL=2.220”,MIN=21.4/2969fps/47000psi, MAX=22.8/3099fps/51800psi (55gr SFIRE)
LEE Manual, 55gr Jacked, MIN=23gr/3018fps, MAX=25.3gr/3203fps
LEE Manual, 55gr BAR X Solid, MIN=21.3gr/2920fps, MAX=22.7gr/3063fps
Spear Manual, 55gr FMJ BT, MIN=24.0gr/2805, MAX=26.0gr/3092
H335 bottle label, Spr Sp, 25.3gr/3203fps (does not show min/max)

I noticed that for different bullets in above list, some of the starting load is more than another's max load.

Thanks for showing your thought process and methodologies in working out a starting load for the first range visit. Also when start load is selected and what is the measure for selecting the best load data? Other than best the grouping, is there a favorable velocity range that the .223 needs to satisfy?

cc: @Mountain

Do you know your barrel twist?

I bought a bunch of the Hornady 55 gn FMJ bulk bullets
Loaded a good amount of them with H335

25 gn H335

They shoot moa with little effort as long as I can hold the angle! It can and does do better if I really try
Since its range fodder my “load development” stopped there.

All shot from AR

 

[ttk9801]

Do you know your barrel twist?

I bought a bunch of the Hornady 55 gn FMJ bulk bullets
Loaded a good amount of them with H335

25 gn H335

They shoot moa with little effort as long as I can hold the angle! It can and does do better if I really try
Since its range fodder my “load development” stopped there.

All shot from AR

The twist rate is 1 in 12" (I edited the original post to reflect this info).

 

[ttk9801]

I have a 223 with a 1 in 12 twist. It shoots 55 grain OK but anything heavier is all over the paper. It does very well with 52 grain SMK.

I did realize that the 55gr is a little heavy for 1 in 12" twist rate but that was after I purchased the bullets in bulk. My rem 700 shoots 40gr Honady VMAX very good grouping (with IMR 4198).

 

[mac1911]

The twist rate is 1 in 12" (I edited the original post to reflect this info).

Should be fine, the quality/inconsistencies in the bullet is probably more of a “problem”
The Hornady bulk 55s shoot just ok through my 1/7
Best out if my 1/9 upper
Years ago I had a sears 223 bolt gun want to say it was a savage clone? Dont rememeber. It had a 1/14 twist and anything over 45 gn got iffy . That thing really like 35 gn bullets

 

[ttk9801]

Thanks to everyone's info/suggestions. But I wonder why bullet velocity has not come up as a factor in selecting (any) load data?

 

[mac1911]

Thanks to everyone's info/suggestions. But I wonder why bullet velocity has not come up as a factor in selecting (any) load data?

What do you mean ?
Velocity will differ on barrel length, twist, your own loading influences.
Since Ixhave been buying those bulk 55 FMJ , way back with the old Wideners and their “mil spec” FMJs for pennies ALL if the 55 FMJ seemed to like full house loads.
So work your loads to see if there is a sweet spot then go with it.
Watch for pressure signs as you go you up
Oh and watch to see if those bullet ogive is not cramming into the lands its a realitively “fat” bullet.

 

[Road_Clam]

I did realize that the 55gr is a little heavy for 1 in 12" twist rate but that was after I purchased the bullets in bulk. My rem 700 shoots 40gr Honady VMAX very good grouping (with IMR 4198).

Your barrel will love the 52 gr SMK. A really good powder for light bullet .223 is Hodgton Benchmark. I've also had excellent results using Win 748 . 748 is a super versatile powder that works awesome in 223 and 308 . You always want to experiment with multiple powders , not just one. This way you have loads for whatever powder is available . Varget is the goto powder for top precision, but it's also the FIRST powder to become "unobtanium" at the first signs of a bad political panic buying enviroment.

 

[rscalzo]

This is more or less what I do, unless someone has a similar upper / barrel and has pet load for the same powder and projectile. Of course if that pet load is on the edge or beyond the max/min's, I will ignore it and start closer to the middle. While it is possible I might work my way up to 25.0 grains, no way would I start there- so that's a good example of one I would ignore as a starting load. It might end up being a good load- just don't start there. Side note: I have found a very high correlation between flattened primers and/or bulged or blown cases and jackasses leaving their brass for others to pick up. The same dummies who can't follow safe reloading practices can't be bothered to pick up after themselves.

You didn't mention the platform. AR-15? You want enough juice to cycle reliably and there is no need to hammer your rifle with stout loads.

One of my methodologies is to go to the powder manufacturer for the load data. H335 I'd go with the Hodgdon data and ignore the others.

Also- depending upon how close / tight is the throat for your chamber, I'd make sure that you are not jamming bullets into the lands at a given OAL. Yes, there are some accuracy loads that call for engagement with the lands- but you don't want to do that when checking out a new load and for general range plinking and especially self defense loads- no need to do that.

Rifle: Remington 700 SPS .223 rem, 26" heavy barrel, 1 in 12" twist rate

 

[ttk9801]

What do you mean ?
Velocity will differ on barrel length, twist, your own loading influences.
Since Ixhave been buying those bulk 55 FMJ , way back with the old Wideners and their “mil spec” FMJs for pennies ALL if the 55 FMJ seemed to like full house loads.
So work your loads to see if there is a sweet spot then go with it.
Watch for pressure signs as you go you up
Oh and watch to see if those bullet ogive is not cramming into the lands its a realitively “fat” bullet

Let's say someone works the load up to beyond the max load trying to find a sweet spot. Everything appears good and he gets a velocity, say, 3500fps or higher.

Isn't that a concern for risks because the velocity is beyond the norm max?

 

[mac1911]

Let's say someone works the load up to beyond the max load trying to find a sweet spot. Everything appears good and he gets a velocity, say, 3500fps or higher.

Isn't that a concern for risks because the velocity is beyond the norm max?

Velocity is not a limit per say but bullet rpn can be.
In not sure of the max RPM for jacketed bellets
3500x720/12
Tour 3500 fps in 12 twist is spinning the bullet at 210,000 rpm

 

[Mountain]

Rifle: Remington 700 SPS .223 rem, 26" heavy barrel, 1 in 12" twist rate

He edited to add that later (this morning), in response to those of us asking those questions yesterday. Thank you for your vigilance.

 

[paul73]

what methodologies and thought processes everyone use to determine the starting load

a consolidation of powders that leads into a consolidation of calibers.

6 dasher, .223, .308 - all are set to varget, so you just need to buy a ton of varget.

55gr i disregard due to twist of my guns, my loads are set for 69gr SMK and 75gr noslers for .223.
.308 are done 168gr and 175gr. 6 dasher - 105gr berger. works great.

 

[ttk9801]

Thanks for everyone's info/help. Since I was more focused on learning the process/methodology of selecting the starting load. I wanted to conclude by sharing mine based on what I have learnt in this discussion:

My .223 rem, H335, Everglades 55gr FMJ w/ cannelure BT v2 starting load selection process:

1. Powder bottle label 25.3gr/3203fps for Spr Sp. This data should be most reliable.
2. Quite a few reloaders at northeastshooter.com use 25gr. This matches the powder manufacture’s label. Conforms the 25gr load.
3. However, from “other” published data (see original post), the average MIN is 22.2gr and average MAX is 24.3gr. This is so different (low) compared to 1. and 2.
4. Summary so far: the “other” published data is so confusing
5. I can’t start from 25gr or anywhere close to it.
6. I choose to start (conservatively) from 22gr (which is the average MIN from 3.) with .5gr increments
7. range trip 1: 22.0gr, 22.5gr, 23.0gr and 23.5gr
range trip 2: 24.0gr, 24.5gr, 25.0gr. and 25.5gr(?)
Stop and pull bullets out when see pressure signs.

Other things that I learnt:

1.load data may be closely related to bullet type/quality
3.platform characteristics (twist rate, barrel length etc) impact load data
2.watch pressure signs closely (bellying, cracks etc)

--- Life would have been so boring if without reloading...

 

[Mountain]

Thanks for everyone's info/help. Since I was more focused on learning the process/methodology of selecting the starting load. I wanted to concluded by sharing mine based on what I have learnt in this discussion:

My .223 rem, H335, Everglades 55gr FMJ w/ cannelure BT v2 starting load selection process:

1. Powder bottle label 25.3gr/3203fps for Spr Sp. This data should be most reliable.
2. Quite a few reloaders at northeastshooter.com use 25gr. This matches the powder manufacture’s label. Conforms the 25gr load.
3. However, from “other” published data (see original post), the average MIN is 22.2gr and average MAX is 24.3gr. This is so different (low) compared to 1. and 2.
4. Summary so far: the “other” published data is so confusing
5. I can’t start from 25gr or anywhere close to it.
6. I choose to start (conservatively) from 22gr (which is the average MIN from 3.) with .5gr increments
7. range trip 1: 22.0gr, 22.5gr, 23.0gr and 23.5gr
range trip 2: 24.0gr, 24.5gr, 25.0gr. and 25.5gr(?)
Stop and pull bullets out when see pressure signs.

Other things that I learnt:

1.load data may be closely related to bullet type/quality
3.platform characteristics (twist rate, barrel length etc) impacts load data
2.watch pressure signs closely (bellying, cracks etc)

--- Life would have been so boring if without reloading...

Good summary and so long as you are above the minimums, starting low is never a bad idea- especially if you are a newb to reloading. I don't consider myself an expert but I now have years of experience loading thousands of rounds in the same calibers and with a given set of components. For sure in my early days I always started on the lower end of the scale. I might start more towards the middle now, so long as I know the variables.

You may end up at 25.0 grains as the best load, but I think it is best to work your way up- as you are doing. For example, if your scale is off- better to start low.