I've been curious as to where excatly you can't carry your firearm. I know you can't carry in government buildings and schools but I wasn't sure if there are more places. Also whether or not you can carry in bars. I've been looking around to find out and I havent been able to find any answers. Thanks for the input
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Where can you carry?
- Thread starter jalter13
- Start date
Everywhere except schools, and most govt buildings. Signage is non-binding at private establishments, the most they could do if found out is ask you to leave.
That depends on what State (geographically speaking) you are in. Also some states may have other restrictions, like banks.. This is a state by state issue that cannot be answered without a lot of research. What state are you asking about?
Given that this is in the Massachusetts Gun Laws Sub-Forum, I'd assume that he is talking about Massachusetts.
To answer his question, I believe that you can carry in a bar provided that you are not drinking.
In MA its basically everything except for schools and govt buildings where it is banned. (and thats only by force, not law). Fed gov buildings are often covered by law.
There is no bar carry ban with the proviso that you are not "intoxicated" while carrying but have fun defining what the state means by that.
There is also no binding signage in MA. MA is trespass standard. Meaning "no guns" signs on private businesses don't mean bunk- although they can legally throw you out of their premises, obviously. So if you are discovered and asked to leave, then do so immediately.
-Mike
There is no bar carry ban with the proviso that you are not "intoxicated" while carrying but have fun defining what the state means by that.
There is also no binding signage in MA. MA is trespass standard. Meaning "no guns" signs on private businesses don't mean bunk- although they can legally throw you out of their premises, obviously. So if you are discovered and asked to leave, then do so immediately.
-Mike
In MA you need WRITTEN permission to violate 269(10)J from the appropriate school official (dean?). In other words, it's never happening unless you're extremely well connected. .Gov buildings all depend on the building we're talking about. Most fed buildings are covered by US code to some degree or another, so whatever that says, is basically gospel. State buildings like courthouses, prisons, etc, aren't covered by law but they bar carry by "force" -eg, with security checkpoints.
![[laugh]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/012.gif "Laugh [laugh]")
-Mike
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You will generally have a chance only if you are at the school to discuss the details of a building they will be naming after you, or if you are of sufficient stature that the school issues a press release telling the world you are visiting. Remember, you are asking the person who grants permission to bet their career in academia on your behavior if they grant permission.
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Banned places in MA:
Schools - MGL 269-10j
On the surface of the ocean within 500 ft of Logan airport -- MGL 90-61
Where birds or mammals may be found if > 38 caliber (hunting regulation, and no, people are not mammals under the definition)
Logan airport outside the sterile area (CMR, $50 fine, does not apply to transport for travel)
Anywhere while you are under the influence of alcohol
Many state buildings and courthouses by administrative fiat, not law (court order in the case of courthouses)
Plus the assortment of federally banned places (airport sterile areas, federal buildings)
And, actually, the "the most they could do" is report the attempt to ignore the sign to the issuing PD asking that your suitability be reconsidered. This is not likely to happen if a store clerk sees your gun and you leave, but could be an issue if you attempt to sneak a gun in past a private sector security checkpoint with detail cops present.
Since the MA carry permit law pre-dates the widespread carry permit movement that started with FL, and was only originally intended to prevent "undesireables" from carrying, it is not littered with the carveouts, banned areas and binding signage found it some other state's laws.
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Thank you very much, I guess I just needed to see it written down somewhere.
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Fine, but please remember, that you should only use NES as a "starting point"; not as the basis to determine what you can legally do. That being said, the hive can be merciless to anyone caught posting inaccurate information in these forums.
Point taken. I still feel better though
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Also, note that states that grant reciprocity to holders of MA LTC's often have their own "prohibited zones", "binding signage" or "notice on first contact with LEO" laws that are unlike what you encounter in MA, but you need to know, as reciprocity (where granted) generally means you are treated the same as an in state license holder. I say "generally" as Arizona is an exception - binding signage in bars applies to AZ residents only, not to non-residents (nobody ever claimed this area of law makes any sense).
The post office thing used to be iffy but now it's gotten a lot worse, I guess there is some case law on the issue (in the past couple years) that doesn't make it favorable for gun owners.
-Mike
The case law is not exactly on point, since the defendants were in violation of other laws or regulations at the time of the alleged offense. Nonetheless, the cases would tend to weigh heavily against someone charged with violation of the CFR.
Ken
Ken
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That site is pretty good, but I've found some minituae that is not perfectly correct - so it should be regarded only as a starting point.
For example, it states that "no guns signs" have the force of law. The MGL the site quotes grants any property owner the right to ban people from their property, or order them to leave, but does not create the right to establish algorithmic trespass ("If you enter this property not wearing a shirt you are in violation of the law and subject to arrest"), nor does it grant special status to no gun signs.
RichM
Retired Army Veteran
Also look at the NRA's ILA site. They summarize the gun laws (both the states' laws and the federal law), and more importantly, they provide links directly to each state's laws.
There are also some handy quick reference maps, but as Rob said, make sure that you're not just quoting from an interpretive guide, but that you have an understanding of the actual law that you need to observe.
There are also some handy quick reference maps, but as Rob said, make sure that you're not just quoting from an interpretive guide, but that you have an understanding of the actual law that you need to observe.
If by chance you go into a Federal Facility and there are NO WEAPONS signs, they are binding. Check it at Security or head back to the car and put it in the safe. The up side is most (if not all) Federal Security Agents are now armed and that's better than nothing. For years VA Security was unarmed. When the employees were asked if they wanted them armed the response was an overwhelming "YES!" Today they carry. The Social workers voted "NO!" (Yes I just took a poke at Social Workers!!! Sue ME!). But then again the VA was coming off a rash of armed Pharmacy robbings. Oxicontain was a hot drug back then (probably still is)
